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Old 07-04-2020, 06:08 AM   #1
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Converter burned up!

I was disconnecting a water line and didn't realize that I had bumped power cord at the box until I noticed everything was off and converter was smoking. The plug was only out about 1/4", but enough to lose the 120v power. The converter is shot! The capacitors are melted. Why would a loose connection cause the converter to burn up? I do have a surge protector!
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Old 07-04-2020, 07:00 AM   #2
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Old 07-04-2020, 07:02 AM   #3
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OK, let's go thru a troubleshooting process first. What/where are you plugged into at?


Are you 30 amp or 50 amp?


Using any adapter to connect?
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Old 07-04-2020, 08:28 AM   #4
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I was plugged into 50 amp at a campground. It was actually the plug for the surge protector that was knock out.
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Old 07-04-2020, 08:37 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by jfschmitter View Post
I was plugged into 50 amp at a campground. It was actually the plug for the surge protector that was knock out.
Outlet loose and contacts kind of burnt looking ,high resistance, voltage drop, etc . They do make doggone that goes from 50af to 50am that can be used between pole and sure protection as a cheaper sacrifice. Outlets and breakers At the posts in disrepair are one more downside of this hobby!
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Old 07-04-2020, 08:43 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by jfschmitter View Post
I was plugged into 50 amp at a campground. It was actually the plug for the surge protector that was knock out.

I was thinking it was probably going to be a 50 amp. Just to verify for sure, YOu are connected to a surge protector, then the surge protector is connected to campsite pedestal? Any kind of adapters being used. A pic would sure help.


What usually fries a converter is a 240 volt episode. Normally your RV will utilize a 120/240 volt 50 amp split phase outlet in such a way that only 120 volts is provided by either the L1 or the second L2 legs. The shared neutral is what keeps both the L1 and L2 at 120 volts.


If you lose this neutral somehow, it can allow more than 120 volts to either leg, and thus may have been what burned up the converter if it received too many volts.


This is called an open neutral. Now whether you somehow was able to get an open neutral by bumping the plug (and the neutral losing contact), or it may have had internal failure either in the surge protector or campground pedestal is unknown.
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Old 07-04-2020, 08:49 AM   #7
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Check this link out, and click on the 'open neutral' tab on the left for a better explanation.


RV Electric


As stated before, you may have had an open neutral, which could be in the pedestal outlet, your surge protector, or your shore power cord. You could have a loose neutral prong/connection in any of these and bumping it made the neutral open. You do need to determine if you have had an open neutral and where it occurred so as to not repeat it.



Just one thing to consider, with the information you have provided so far.


Your surge guard, is it just a surge guard or an EMS with surge guard protection?
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Old 07-04-2020, 08:53 AM   #8
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No adapters were used. The surge protector was plugged directly into the pedestal.
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Old 07-04-2020, 09:00 AM   #9
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I checked out the link and it makes sense. The open had to occur at the pedestal because the problem started after I bumped the plug loose.
I shutoff the power secured the plug and restored the power. Everything was functioning except the 12v lights were dimming.
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Old 07-04-2020, 09:03 AM   #10
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No adapters were used. The surge protector was plugged directly into the pedestal.

OK, I included a link above which explains an open neutral in more detail, and where you may want to look.


There is a minute possibility that when you bumped the cord, that the prongs came out in such a way that the neutral line lost contact before the two hot legs did, thus a lost/open neutral



I would however be looking for a loose neutral prong/connector in any connection. Do you have a multimeter with you? Were you running air/conditioners or other high amp loads when you did this?
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Old 07-04-2020, 09:15 AM   #11
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I am hesitant to go much further without knowing for sure what happened, and/or where the problem lies if it is an open neutral.


However, if you are still camping and need a short term solution to finish the holiday trip with a non functioning converter, this post may help. Your 12 volt DC items are going to deplete the battery, then your thermostats will not work which control the air conditioners.



https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...ml#post2353378
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Old 07-04-2020, 09:50 AM   #12
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Both AC units, were running at the time this occurred. After restoring the power, everything was running. I am actually back home now with the trailer in storage. I pulled out the converter and tested it and did get 13.6 volts without a load, but the voltage drops when putting a load on it. I removed the cover, the 2 large capacitors were slightly bulged and the plastic coating was melted at the top.
I did install a new converter but need to get shore power to test everything.
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Old 07-04-2020, 11:28 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by jfschmitter View Post
Both AC units, were running at the time this occurred. After restoring the power, everything was running. I am actually back home now with the trailer in storage. I pulled out the converter and tested it and did get 13.6 volts without a load, but the voltage drops when putting a load on it. I removed the cover, the 2 large capacitors were slightly bulged and the plastic coating was melted at the top.
I did install a new converter but need to get shore power to test everything.
How old is the converter and what is the precise make and model number?

When you have a true sustained open neutral condition you will smoke just about every 120 VAC device in your rig.

Is your "surge protector" just a "surge protector" meaning a cheapo device that you should throw away or a multi-hundred dollar device EMS that will cut the power off in the event of a problem like an open neutral? If it's an EMS it should have protected you against an open neutral instantly.

If you do not know, please post the make and exact model number.

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Old 07-04-2020, 11:46 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by jfschmitter View Post
Both AC units, were running at the time this occurred. After restoring the power, everything was running. I am actually back home now with the trailer in storage. I pulled out the converter and tested it and did get 13.6 volts without a load, but the voltage drops when putting a load on it. I removed the cover, the 2 large capacitors were slightly bulged and the plastic coating was melted at the top.
I did install a new converter but need to get shore power to test everything.
Since your rv is a 2019 Flagstaff 26RLWS you may have received a converter with poor capacitors and they were in the process of failing anyway. I'm not saying that it didn't fail as you suspect. Just that if it is a WFCO converter, it's not the most robust converter on the market.


You should be able to test it with the appropriate adapters and plug into your household outlet.
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Old 07-04-2020, 11:47 AM   #15
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The trailer is 6 months old. The convertor is an Arterra 9855.
It is a Surge Guard 44290. Just a basic surge protector.
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Old 07-04-2020, 12:15 PM   #16
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The trailer is 6 months old. The convertor is an Arterra 9855.
It is a Surge Guard 44290. Just a basic surge protector.
It's a WFCO converter. As NXR said before your Surge Guard 44290 is just a regular surge protector with lights to make it look pretty. It does nothing on it's own to protect your rv. If you never look at it after connecting you will never know if something causes you to lose neutral. To really protect you need an EMS type that will automatically shut down power.
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Old 07-04-2020, 08:56 PM   #17
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It's a WFCO converter. As NXR said before your Surge Guard 44290 is just a regular surge protector with lights to make it look pretty. It does nothing on it's own to protect your rv. If you never look at it after connecting you will never know if something causes you to lose neutral. To really protect you need an EMS type that will automatically shut down power.
Yes. Sadly you paid for and got half of a real EMS. It tests for all of the failures that need to be tested for and protects you against none of them. Progressive Industries and Hughes both make a useless device like that. <sigh>

Identifies faulty park power and provides surge protection
Convenient Easy-T-Pull™ plug handles
Increased receptacle brass thickness reduces heat
Easy to read LED fault chart provides simple power analysis
Test for and indicates:
Open neutral

Open ground
Reverse polarity
Open circuit/no power
Missing leg 1/leg 2 voltage
Surge protection status
Overheating plug/receptacle


The proper way to use on of those is to plug it into the pedestal but have the RV unpiugged. Check the lights. If any indicate a problem do not plug the RV in. If the lights are all OK, turn the pedestal breaker off and plug the RV into the device. Turn the pedestal breaker on.

A royal PITA that almost no one will follow. It's essentially an expensive idiot light that says "Look! Your stuff is getting burned up!" <sigh>

And will not protect you against a failure that occurs after you're fully plugged in. I really wish they would stop selling those

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Old 07-05-2020, 10:10 AM   #18
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What would you recommend for a EMS?

Thank You
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Old 07-05-2020, 11:00 AM   #19
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If you want to stay with a portable unit, which I've never used, you have several choices. From a quick search:

https://rvpower.southwire.com/produc...h-lcd-display/

https://rvpower.southwire.com/produc...a-model-34951/

https://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems-pt50x

https://hughesautoformers.com/product/pwd50-epo/

It all depends on the features you desire such as a phone app. Personally, I'd prefer one with a cover over the RV plug connection since these things are just hanging on a pedestal or if the pedestal is short, laying on the ground. Perhaps you could just get a separate cover, wrap a plastic bag around it, or similar.

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Old 07-05-2020, 11:10 AM   #20
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What would you recommend for a EMS?

Thank You
Joe
Southwire/Surge Gard, Progressive Industries and Hughes all make good ones. Anyone of them will cost much more than the one you have, upwards from at least $250, more like $300 to $400.


Mike Sokol, https://rvelectricity.com/, our resident rv electrical guru endorses the latest Southwire/Surge Gard product.
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