Charge rate depends on the "stage" your converter is charging at; which depends on how depleted your battery is.
When depleted more than 50% you are in "Bulk" mode and there are a lot of empty "electron holes" so the battery can accept charging current pretty quickly without overheating. The electrons don't have to "swim around wildly trying to find a home." Charging voltage is 14.4 volts and current is about 25 amps.
As the battery charges, (like musical chairs, the chairs fill up) and the electrons have a harder time finding a home (especially since in a deep discharge battery the plates are thick and the electrons need to "worm their way in" deep into the lead). If you stay in Bulk mode the electrolyte will get hot and boil your battery dry.
When the converter detects the battery's charge gets above 50%, it shifts the charging current to stage two "Absorption" mode. In this mode, current is cut dramatically so the electrons have a chance to "push" the surface electrons deeper into the lead plates" without boiling the water out of solution and actually tearing the water molecules apart generating more hydrogen and oxygen than the vents can handle (boom). In this mode the voltage is about 13.6 volts and current drops to about 9 amps.
When the capacity of the battery fills to about 90% of capacity it is almost impossible for an electron to "find a home" without kicking someone out; who has to kick someone out; who has to kick someone out; deeper and deeper into the lead. Amperage (the amount of new electrons being pushed into the battery) and voltage (How HARD those electrons are being pushed) need to drop again. The converter detects this and drops into "FLOAT" mode.
In float mode, the converter is charging at a "maintenance" charge rate using a trickle charge voltage of 13.2 volts and about 1 amp or less as it approaches full charge. It tapers to a few hundred milliamps if there is no load on the battery and it is at 100%. Since batteries self discharge due to internal resistance, this trickle charge is required to keep the battery warm (will not freeze) and to replace charge lost due to parasite loads in the camper (Propane detector, clock, instant on radio, etc) and internal resistance of the battery.
It can take up to 5 or 6 days to charge a deep cycle battery from "empty" (voltage less than 10.5 volts) to "full" (voltage of 12.7 volts) using the trailer's 3 stage converter.
This is why most people who depend on their batteries for everything (no hookup camping) remove (or use a disconnect like I do) their batteries and connect a dedicated single stage battery charger to their generator's 120 VAC output to manage the charging.
BEING there watching the process is critical.
1) remove all vent caps
2) Examine the electrolyte level to make sure it is well above the plates and at the "full" ring molded into the vent cap socket. Add DISTILLED water to the ring if needed.
3) Connect the dedicated charger and charge until the dedicated charger indicates "charged"
4) check water level again and "top off" - out gassing will "boil off" some water during this fast charge process.
5) replace vent caps and re-install the batteries (or switch back on)
If you fail to stay and monitor the process or leave the caps on during the charge, this could be what greets you when you return.
Even with a dedicated battery charger it can take 6-8 hours to charge up a depleted battery.
__________________
Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
I thought he was talking about charging rate. The manual talks about voltage, but not "rate" (the amount of amps being pumped in at that voltage).
I needed the Trimetric amperage monitor function to find the amps at each stage. I recorded them when we were in Florida the first season with the Trimetric. I was shocked when I found out how deep I was discharging the batteries and altered my behavior radically after I knew.
__________________
Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
Thank you both, I am learning a lot here. I will be moving my batteries, rewiring so all cables are the same length, putting in a battery monitor, and test before going any deeper. Our dry camping consists of using the furnace in late fall with temps in the high 20's overnight and usually warms to 50 or so during the day. Just do not like getting up in the morning to a camper in the 30's. We do not use our microwave, TV, and I have thought about putting a switch on the radio to kill the power. The only thing we would have on is the Co2, some power to frig ( run on gas ) and the water pump. We have been using LED lanterns for our light source. We have run our honda 2000 sometimes to charge cell phones and camera batteries. We stay from 8 to 14 days, am I on the right track or do you have any other suggestions.
Thank you both, I am learning a lot here. I will be moving my batteries, rewiring so all cables are the same length, putting in a battery monitor, and test before going any deeper. Our dry camping consists of using the furnace in late fall with temps in the high 20's overnight and usually warms to 50 or so during the day. Just do not like getting up in the morning to a camper in the 30's. We do not use our microwave, TV, and I have thought about putting a switch on the radio to kill the power. The only thing we would have on is the Co2, some power to frig ( run on gas ) and the water pump. We have been using LED lanterns for our light source. We have run our honda 2000 sometimes to charge cell phones and camera batteries. We stay from 8 to 14 days, am I on the right track or do you have any other suggestions.
The only wires that need to be identical are the ones that interconnect the batteries. Those wires "become part of the battery's internal resistance" and any differences will have a big difference in charge and discharge rates.
This picture gives a good idea about what I am talking about.
If (say) the black ground wire was on the same battery as the red wire, each battery further away from the first battery would have a higher resistance than the one before. The last battery in the line would have the most resistance and receive very limited current compared to the others and the one hooked to the camper would get the most (in and out).
__________________
Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
Charge rate depends on the "stage" your converter is charging at; which depends on how depleted your battery is.
When depleted more than 50% you are in "Bulk" mode and there are a lot of empty "electron holes" so the battery can accept charging current pretty quickly without overheating. The electrons don't have to "swim around wildly trying to find a home." Charging voltage is 14.4 volts and current is about 25 amps.
As the battery charges, (like musical chairs, the chairs fill up) and the electrons have a harder time finding a home (especially since in a deep discharge battery the plates are thick and the electrons need to "worm their way in" deep into the lead). If you stay in Bulk mode the electrolyte will get hot and boil your battery dry.
When the converter detects the battery's charge gets above 50%, it shifts the charging current to stage two "Absorption" mode. In this mode, current is cut dramatically so the electrons have a chance to "push" the surface electrons deeper into the lead plates" without boiling the water out of solution and actually tearing the water molecules apart generating more hydrogen and oxygen than the vents can handle (boom). In this mode the voltage is about 13.6 volts and current drops to about 9 amps.
When the capacity of the battery fills to about 90% of capacity it is almost impossible for an electron to "find a home" without kicking someone out; who has to kick someone out; who has to kick someone out; deeper and deeper into the lead. Amperage (the amount of new electrons being pushed into the battery) and voltage (How HARD those electrons are being pushed) need to drop again. The converter detects this and drops into "FLOAT" mode.
In float mode, the converter is charging at a "maintenance" charge rate using a trickle charge voltage of 13.2 volts and about 1 amp or less as it approaches full charge. It tapers to a few hundred milliamps if there is no load on the battery and it is at 100%. Since batteries self discharge due to internal resistance, this trickle charge is required to keep the battery warm (will not freeze) and to replace charge lost due to parasite loads in the camper (Propane detector, clock, instant on radio, etc) and internal resistance of the battery.
It can take up to 5 or 6 days to charge a deep cycle battery from "empty" (voltage less than 10.5 volts) to "full" (voltage of 12.7 volts) using the trailer's 3 stage converter.
This is why most people who depend on their batteries for everything (no hookup camping) remove (or use a disconnect like I do) their batteries and connect a dedicated single stage battery charger to their generator's 120 VAC output to manage the charging.
BEING there watching the process is critical.
1) remove all vent caps
2) Examine the electrolyte level to make sure it is well above the plates and at the "full" ring molded into the vent cap socket. Add DISTILLED water to the ring if needed.
3) Connect the dedicated charger and charge until the dedicated charger indicates "charged"
4) check water level again and "top off" - out gassing will "boil off" some water during this fast charge process.
5) replace vent caps and re-install the batteries (or switch back on)
If you fail to stay and monitor the process or leave the caps on during the charge, this could be what greets you when you return.
Even with a dedicated battery charger it can take 6-8 hours to charge up a depleted battery.
The attached pics, is that from personal experience, wow!
__________________
Of all the things I've lost in my life the thing I miss the most is my mind!
The attached pics, is that from personal experience, wow!
Yes, I took the photos, but not my battery. We had just set up at the campground and as I cracked a beer, I heard what sounded like a rifle shot right outside my camper. We were camping at the Pope AFB/Fort Bragg campground and I thought one of our fellow campers had an "Inadvertent Discharge."
I grabbed the medical kit and my phone and headed out the door. There was smoke coming from the front of a "Bounder"; the hood was up and a battery charger was plugged into the battery. The owner was no where outside.
As I stood there he came out because the power went out in the camper. He was quite surprised to find all the damage to the battery.
We never did find the vent caps. I think they just missed the space station.
Acid was everywhere and I ruined a good pair of jeans and a jacket helping him get his camper back in action.
__________________
Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
Yes, I took the photos, but not my battery. We had just set up at the campground and as I cracked a beer, I heard what sounded like a rifle shot right outside my camper. We were camping at the Pope AFB/Fort Bragg campground and I thought one of our fellow campers had an "Inadvertent Discharge."
I grabbed the medical kit and my phone and headed out the door. There was smoke coming from the front of a "Bounder"; the hood was up and a battery charger was plugged into the battery. The owner was no where outside.
As I stood there he came out because the power went out in the camper. He was quite surprised to find all the damage to the battery.
We never did find the vent caps. I think they just missed the space station.
Acid was everywhere and I ruined a good pair of jeans and a jacket helping him get his camper back in action.
Unreal what an incredible story!! Glad to hear no one was hurt, aside from a pair of Levi's. You will remember that one for awhile to share around the campfire.
__________________
Of all the things I've lost in my life the thing I miss the most is my mind!
Linear Mode
