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02-27-2020, 02:08 PM
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#1
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Canadian Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Eastern GTA, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,235
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Converter Charger Upgrade Needed?
I have a 2019 Rockwood Signature 5th wheel and we never boondock (and I don't know if we ever will). Despite the fact that we always stay on a site with an electrical hookup, we've had a couple occasions where the campground power went out for several hours and a cheapo dealer battery isn't great in those situations. So I'm looking at upgrading it to either a couple 12V Trojan 27TMXs or a couple 6V Trojan T-105s for more amp-hours, "just in case".
In my situation, is there any benefit to upgrading the converter/charger? The factory installed a WFCO WF-9855 "3 stage charger". Would a Progressive Dynamics or Boondocker charger be better for those batteries? Unless the WFCO overcharges the batteries, I really don't see a need but I know there are many here with expertise on this subject. I also posed this question to BestConverter.com and I'll see what they say, too.
__________________
2023 Rockwood Signature 8262RBS
2016 Ford F-250 XLT SuperCrew, 6.2L, 4x4, 6'9" bed
2019 Rockwood Signature 8290BS (2019 - 2022)
2011 Rockwood Signature 8293SS (2015 - 2018)
2010 Rockwood Roo 23SS (2012 - 2014)
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02-27-2020, 03:18 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,011
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For a couple of years I ran 3 group 31 FLA battires with the exact same converter. Never had a problem at all. The only reason to switch out converters would be for a faster charge rate or switching to lithium battery. Jay
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Old Rv 2016 Rockwood 2504s.
Old TV: 2014 Silverado 1500 double cab.
New RV 2020 Jayco 24RBS
New TV 2020 2500HD gas.
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02-27-2020, 03:34 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Foothills of Southern Alberta
Posts: 2,004
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As Jay2504 says, no need to upgrade your converter unless you want a faster charge. Which you don't need if you never boondock and charge the batteries via generator.
__________________
2007 Surveyor SV230 - 200 Watts Solar/MPPT Controller - 220 AH Battery Bank (Two-GC2) - 600 watt PSW Inverter - (2) 2000 watt Inverter Generators - LED Lighting
2009 F150 - 5.4 Litre with Tow Package
Boon Docking 99% of the time.
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02-27-2020, 04:19 PM
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#4
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Canadian Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Eastern GTA, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,235
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Thanks for the replies so far.
__________________
2023 Rockwood Signature 8262RBS
2016 Ford F-250 XLT SuperCrew, 6.2L, 4x4, 6'9" bed
2019 Rockwood Signature 8290BS (2019 - 2022)
2011 Rockwood Signature 8293SS (2015 - 2018)
2010 Rockwood Roo 23SS (2012 - 2014)
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02-28-2020, 04:33 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: NY Capital District
Posts: 429
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Randy from BestConverter will give you great advice. I upgraded my OEM last year and so far I am very happy. This is what I ordered it was a direct drop-in replacement:
PD 4655L Wildkat PD 4655L MBA WildKat 55 Amp Main Board Assembly for WFCO 8955 or Parallax 7155 (Includes 4600 Remote)
__________________
2017 Forest River Surveyor 251rks
2022 Chevy 3500HD High Country
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02-28-2020, 05:20 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boondocking
no need to upgrade your converter unless you want a faster charge. Which you don't need if you never boondock and charge the batteries via generator.
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hmm. never thought about that. We did some boondocking last year and will probably do some this year. How much faster "can" a better converter charge batteries? percentage faster?
James
__________________
James & Aimee
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2018 Rockwood 2906WS
2012 Ram 2500HD 6.7L Cummins
Equal-i-zer 4 Point Hitch
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02-28-2020, 06:27 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,011
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Tough to say how much “faster” a different converter would be. The biggest pickup in charge time would be with Lithium batteries. They charge at a much faster rate than lead type batteries. Talking just FLA or AGM type battery, the difference would be between charging at 14.4 volts vs 13.6 volts. I know that they will charge faster at 14.4 volts, but how much I can’t say. Jay
__________________
Old Rv 2016 Rockwood 2504s.
Old TV: 2014 Silverado 1500 double cab.
New RV 2020 Jayco 24RBS
New TV 2020 2500HD gas.
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02-28-2020, 06:47 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Pensacola, FL
Posts: 1,645
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My experience with WFCO in two trailers (Also reported by many others on this forum) is that the WFCO does not go into "Bulk" charging mode (14.0 to 14.4 volts) unless the batteries are below 50% (12.0 volts) which is the limit of recommended depth of discharge for best battery life.
Above the 12.0 volt level, it only charges at the "Absorption" rate with 13.6 volts and that takes 2 to 3 times longer.
https://www.batterystuff.com/blog/3-...-chargers.html
FROM TROJAN BATTERY WEBSITE:
Discharging batteries is entirely a function of your particular application.
However, below is list of helpful items:
Shallow discharges will result in a longer battery life.
50% (or less) discharges are recommended.
80% discharge is the maximum safe discharge.
Do not fully discharge flooded batteries (80% or more). This will damage (or kill) the battery.
Many experts recommend operating batteries only between the 50% to 85% of full charge range. A periodic equalization charge is a must when using this practice.
Do not leave batteries deeply discharged for any length of time.
Lead acid batteries do not develop a memory and do not need to be fully discharged before recharging.
Batteries should be charged after each period of use.
Batteries that charge up but cannot support a load are most likely bad and should be tested.
__________________
2019 Coachmen Freedom Express 192RBS
2015 T12RBST Flagstaff Hardside
Disclaimer: The actual value of my "Two Cents" of advice varies just like a bitcoin.
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02-28-2020, 07:00 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Posts: 7,616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormer
hmm. never thought about that. We did some boondocking last year and will probably do some this year. How much faster "can" a better converter charge batteries? percentage faster?
James
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Depends on how long the converter stays in bulk charge. A bigger problem than the converter is the voltage drop in the small wire between the converter and the batteries. It's conceivable to reduce your charge/generator time by 50% if you can keep the converter in bulk to the 80% charge level.
If you discharge your battery to 50% and want to get it to 80% and can charge at a 0.2C charge current, you could get the batteries up to 80% in a couple hours. If it falls out of bulk, it could be over 4 hours.
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02-28-2020, 08:42 PM
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#10
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Canadian Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Eastern GTA, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustyRoads
Randy from BestConverter will give you great advice. I upgraded my OEM last year and so far I am very happy. This is what I ordered it was a direct drop-in replacement:
PD 4655L Wildkat PD 4655L MBA WildKat 55 Amp Main Board Assembly for WFCO 8955 or Parallax 7155 (Includes 4600 Remote)
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Thanks. If I were to go with an aftermarket converter/charger I’d probably buy one with a 120 VAC plug like the Progressive Dynamics 9200 series and then install a 120V receptacle and the converter/charger next to the batteries to minimize the length of the DC wires.
__________________
2023 Rockwood Signature 8262RBS
2016 Ford F-250 XLT SuperCrew, 6.2L, 4x4, 6'9" bed
2019 Rockwood Signature 8290BS (2019 - 2022)
2011 Rockwood Signature 8293SS (2015 - 2018)
2010 Rockwood Roo 23SS (2012 - 2014)
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02-28-2020, 10:58 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Posts: 7,616
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That's the best way to do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by itat
Thanks. If I were to go with an aftermarket converter/charger I’d probably buy one with a 120 VAC plug like the Progressive Dynamics 9200 series and then install a 120V receptacle and the converter/charger next to the batteries to minimize the length of the DC wires.
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02-29-2020, 10:17 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Maurice, LA
Posts: 4,095
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Our original WFCO converter worked fine charging the battery. What it began doing was surging the 12 vikt popwe.
By that I mean when operating on the 12 volt battery lights they would alternately dim and get bright. I installed a new PD 9280 converter and no more dimming of lights.
__________________
2012 Wildcat Sterling 32RL, Gladiator Qr35 ST235/85R16 Load rating G, TST 507 TPMS w/ Flow-thru Sensors & Repeater, Reese Sidewinder 16K Pin Box, PI EMS HW50C
2009 Chevy Silverado 2500HD CCSB LTZ Diesel, Fumoto Oil Drain Valve, Turbo Brake activated, 39 gal Aux Tank W/ Fuel Pump transfer, Air Lift Loadlifter 5000 air bags.
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03-04-2020, 08:14 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 124
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I upgraded to the PD 4655 Wildkat , and two Fullriver DC220 6v. ( from bestconverter ) There is a remote that you can put the charger in bulk mode manually and it works. But my batteries never saw more than 13.6v when in bulk. The reason is the OEM wiring is sub optimal with poor connections/ etc. Very disappointing to learn this but its par for the quality of the RV industry. Here are pics of voltage at panel and batteries... 14.4 at charger / 13.6 at batteries.
Either way you'll get more voltage by upgrading and maybe you cam optimize your wiring / battery placement on your rig .
Looking forward to your solution / progress !!
__________________
2019 Cruiser Stryker 2613
2019 F 350 6.2 CCSB 4.3
14k Equalizer
400w of solar on roof
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03-04-2020, 08:25 PM
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#14
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Canadian Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Eastern GTA, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,235
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I found a local golf cart dealer who has great prices on Trojan T-105 batteries so I’ve ordered a couple. I’m thinking about putting them in a NOCO HM426 battery box. Based on feedback here I doubt that I’ll need to upgrade the charger/converter.
__________________
2023 Rockwood Signature 8262RBS
2016 Ford F-250 XLT SuperCrew, 6.2L, 4x4, 6'9" bed
2019 Rockwood Signature 8290BS (2019 - 2022)
2011 Rockwood Signature 8293SS (2015 - 2018)
2010 Rockwood Roo 23SS (2012 - 2014)
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03-04-2020, 10:12 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Southern NM
Posts: 9,561
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Yep, if you only need a few hours of battery usage, no major boondocking, a new converter or upgraded wiring will be of little use to you, as well as a waste of $$$.
I replaced my OEM converter when it died with one recommended by Randy and it does charge faster, but only minutes, nothing drastic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by itat
I found a local golf cart dealer who has great prices on Trojan T-105 batteries so I’ve ordered a couple. I’m thinking about putting them in a NOCO HM426 battery box. Based on feedback here I doubt that I’ll need to upgrade the charger/converter.
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__________________
Scott and Liz - Southern NM
2012 Wildcat Sterling 32RL - w/level up (best option ever)
2007 Chevy 2500HD Duramax
Reese Fifth Airborne Sidewinder
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03-06-2020, 10:13 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,092
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Unless you are recharging with a generator, whether getting your batteries from 50% to 100% takes 6 hours (absolute optimum recharging) or 12 hours (most likely with a WFCO converter/stock wiring) doesn't really matter.
The limit on recharging flooded lead acid batteries comes from the battery chemistry. If you push too much current too fast, the "wrong" chemical reactions start happening to a much greater degree. Water molecules get split into hydrogen and oxygen, water boils instead of remaining a liquid, and battery internal temps and pressures build. The Progressive Industry converter "fast charge" is about as aggressive as I want to be - I can be hands off without problems over a wide range of temperatures. Of course, having a converter smaller than the maximum size for my battery bank - 55 amp converter would be the maximum for 210AH - probably adds a whole 30 minutes to the recharge time from 50% to 90%.
just my thoughts
Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW with PI 4135 converter and 2 Costco/Interstate 210AH GC-2 batteries. No generator, no solar, 4 nights with 50% heater run time at night.
2008 Hyundai Entourage minivan
camping Colorado and adjacent states one weekend at a time
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03-06-2020, 10:27 PM
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#17
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Canadian Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Eastern GTA, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,235
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BTW, in my original post just over a week ago, I mentioned that I asked BestConverter.com my question. I did that via their Contact Us page. So far they haven’t responded. Kinda disappointing considering I’ve heard great things about them. Maybe they are more responsive to a phone call. Doesn’t really matter though since its evident from the discussion here that I don’t need to upgrade my converter.
__________________
2023 Rockwood Signature 8262RBS
2016 Ford F-250 XLT SuperCrew, 6.2L, 4x4, 6'9" bed
2019 Rockwood Signature 8290BS (2019 - 2022)
2011 Rockwood Signature 8293SS (2015 - 2018)
2010 Rockwood Roo 23SS (2012 - 2014)
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03-06-2020, 10:36 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Southern NM
Posts: 9,561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itat
BTW, in my original post just over a week ago, I mentioned that I asked BestConverter.com my question. I did that via their Contact Us page. So far they haven’t responded. Kinda disappointing considering I’ve heard great things about them. Maybe they are more responsive to a phone call. Doesn’t really matter though since its evident from the discussion here that I don’t need to upgrade my converter.
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They didn't respond to any of my attempts at email/contact page either. So I called and left a message. Randy called back in a few hours.
__________________
Scott and Liz - Southern NM
2012 Wildcat Sterling 32RL - w/level up (best option ever)
2007 Chevy 2500HD Duramax
Reese Fifth Airborne Sidewinder
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03-07-2020, 06:01 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NMWildcat
Yep, if you only need a few hours of battery usage, no major boondocking, a new converter or upgraded wiring will be of little use to you, as well as a waste of $$$.
I replaced my OEM converter when it died with one recommended by Randy and it does charge faster, but only minutes, nothing drastic.
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If faster charging is essential to the user then the only real way to achieve that is to change battery chemistry. Lead/Acid batteries will only charge so fast without damage.
The upgraded wire between converter and battery, even if just a second wire of the same size is run and connected in parallel, will at least help keep the converter in bulk mode due to less voltage drop.
Since most TT's have a #8 AWG wire from battery to converter, a second wire would only cost around $10-$15 for up to 25 feet.
Two #8 wires in parallel give the equivalent to a single #5 wire. The reduced voltage drop would be about 3% which could well make the difference between early switching to absorb mode from bulk.
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"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will." (Japanese Proverb)
"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"
2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2023 f-150 SCREW XLT 3.5 Ecoboost (The result of a $68,000 oil change )
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03-07-2020, 07:00 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Southern NM
Posts: 9,561
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There are only a certain few that faster charging is essential . Those like myself, aren't concerned....
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanMike
If faster charging is essential to the user then the only real way to achieve that is to change battery chemistry. Lead/Acid batteries will only charge so fast without damage.
The upgraded wire between converter and battery, even if just a second wire of the same size is run and connected in parallel, will at least help keep the converter in bulk mode due to less voltage drop.
Since most TT's have a #8 AWG wire from battery to converter, a second wire would only cost around $10-$15 for up to 25 feet.
Two #8 wires in parallel give the equivalent to a single #5 wire. The reduced voltage drop would be about 3% which could well make the difference between early switching to absorb mode from bulk.
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__________________
Scott and Liz - Southern NM
2012 Wildcat Sterling 32RL - w/level up (best option ever)
2007 Chevy 2500HD Duramax
Reese Fifth Airborne Sidewinder
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