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Old 02-20-2013, 10:54 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by apollumi View Post
Are there 12v deep cycle or are they just trolling motor, dual purpose, types??
Yes, there are. Trojan and others make deep-cycle flooded batteries (and AGM and Gel). I've attached a product guide so show you. Check out page 3 for the 12-volts.
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File Type: pdf TRJN0111_ProdSpecGuide.pdf (449.9 KB, 367 views)
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:55 AM   #22
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Here is some good information regarding the general differences between batteries ...

Starting, Marine, and Deep-Cycle Batteries
  • Starting (sometimes called SLI, for starting, lighting, ignition) batteries are commonly used to start and run engines. Engine starters need a very large starting current for a very short time. Starting batteries have a large number of thin plates for maximum surface area. The plates are composed of a Lead "sponge", similar in appearance to a very fine foam sponge. This gives a very large surface area, but if deep cycled, this sponge will quickly be consumed and fall to the bottom of the cells. Automotive batteries will generally fail after 30-150 deep cycles if deep cycled, while they may last for thousands of cycles in normal starting use (2-5% discharge).
  • Deep cycle batteries are designed to be discharged down as much as 80% time after time, and have much thicker plates. The major difference between a true deep cycle battery and others is that the plates are SOLID Lead plates - not sponge. This gives less surface area, thus less "instant" power like starting batteries need. Although these can be cycled down to 20% charge, the best lifespan vs cost method is to keep the average cycle at about 50% discharge.
Unfortunately, it is often impossible to tell what you are really buying in some of the discount stores or places that specialize in automotive batteries. The golf car battery is quite popular for small systems and RV's. The problem is that "golf car" refers to a size of battery case (commonly called GC-2, or T-105), not the type or construction - so the quality and construction of a golf car battery can vary considerably - ranging from the cheap off brand with thin plates up the true deep cycle brands, such as Crown, Trojan, etc. In general, you get what you pay for.
  • Marine batteries are usually a "hybrid", and fall between the starting and deep-cycle batteries, though a few (Rolls-Surrette and Concorde, for example) are true deep cycle. In the hybrid, the plates may be composed of Lead sponge, but it is coarser and heavier than that used in starting batteries. It is often hard to tell what you are getting in a "marine" battery, but most are a hybrid. Starting batteries are usually rated at "CCA", or cold cranking amps, or "MCA", Marine cranking amps - the same as "CA". Any battery with the capacity shown in CA or MCA may or may not be a true deep-cycle battery. It is sometimes hard to tell, as the term deep cycle is often overused - we have even seen the term "deep cycle" used in automotive starting battery advertising. CA and MCA ratings are at 32 degrees F, while CCA is at zero degree F. Unfortunately, the only positive way to tell with some batteries is to buy one and cut it open - not much of an option.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:20 AM   #23
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Looks like a weekend trip might be in store. I'm going to be a trojan convert before it's over. You'd think that after getting this old I would have stopped trying to cheap myself out.

Can I get 12v trojans that will fit in my Battery boxes? My Energizer group 31 batteries fit and I can actually put a slightly "longer" battery in if I need. I'm maxed on height though so a battery taller than the norm won't do.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:41 AM   #24
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Its really hard to go wrong with Trojan batteries

The best way to make sure they fit is to go by the measurements.

I ultimately matched the measurements for two Trojan T-145 batteries to the internal measurements of several battery boxes and then matched the external measurements of those battery boxes to my battery tray. Only a couple of boxes fit for me and I chose one so that everything (batteries, boxes and tray) fit without any modifications.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:43 AM   #25
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Should I just give in and buy me some Trojan T-105's?? I just looked up a trojan battery I thought would be good (30XHS) based on AH and it showed CCA. <scratches head>. I've read on the different types of batteries many times but my limited xray vision cannot penetrate various battery casings. How about somebody tell me which battery to buy <searches for a place to get T-105's>.

It's for a Cherokee 25RR toy hauler btw. So I can only put two batteries in. The reason I wanted to go 12v was because somebody had mentioned if one failed you could still be able to run vs if one of the 6v failed you'd be down.

What will be juicing the batteries is 4 x 145 watt solar panels. 580 watts total but I'm expecting maybe around 520 watts output. I'm hoping that is plenty excess for a couple hundred amp hours of batteries.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:47 AM   #26
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Here are my batteries. I can't go higher because I'm just short of touching the camper. Errrr, I can't go wider either. So about the size of a group 31 battery is gonna be as big as I can go.



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Old 02-20-2013, 12:51 PM   #27
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here is a SINGLE 12 volt group 30 with more AH than the PAIR of DC-24s in my camper now.

Trojan SCS225 12V 130Ah Flooded Battery

If you "must" have Gel:

http://www.civicsolar.com/product/tr...mpany-410-0121
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Old 02-20-2013, 02:12 PM   #28
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Should I just give in and buy me some Trojan T-105's?? I just looked up a trojan battery I thought would be good (30XHS) based on AH and it showed CCA. <scratches head>. I've read on the different types of batteries many times but my limited xray vision cannot penetrate various battery casings. How about somebody tell me which battery to buy <searches for a place to get T-105's>.

It's for a Cherokee 25RR toy hauler btw. So I can only put two batteries in. The reason I wanted to go 12v was because somebody had mentioned if one failed you could still be able to run vs if one of the 6v failed you'd be down.

What will be juicing the batteries is 4 x 145 watt solar panels. 580 watts total but I'm expecting maybe around 520 watts output. I'm hoping that is plenty excess for a couple hundred amp hours of batteries.
I think your next step is to call Trojan about that battery you are interested in (the 30XHS) and ask them to explain the make up of that battery and maybe address your concern about the CCA thing. As mentioned in post #22, "Any battery with the capacity shown in CA or MCA may or may not be a true deep-cycle battery". Have Trojan explain it and then let us know what they say


I've spoken with them in the past and they are helpful and knowledgeable. They might also be able to provide insight with your solar panel question. That's just not my cup o'tea.
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Old 03-01-2013, 01:43 PM   #29
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here is a SINGLE 12 volt group 30 with more AH than the PAIR of DC-24s in my camper now.

Trojan SCS225 12V 130Ah Flooded Battery

If you "must" have Gel:

Trojan 27-Gel 12V 91Ah Gel Battery
Are you just listing the battery type to buy or are you saying these guys are good to buy from? Closest trojan dealer listed on their site for me is over 100 miles away. I'm not opposed to having them shipped if need be. Don't want to have to fight if there are problems in the shipment though.
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Old 03-01-2013, 05:30 PM   #30
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Are you just listing the battery type to buy or are you saying these guys are good to buy from? Closest trojan dealer listed on their site for me is over 100 miles away. I'm not opposed to having them shipped if need be. Don't want to have to fight if there are problems in the shipment though.

Just "what" is a good example; not a recommended source.
Let us know who you buy from and how the transaction went...
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:27 PM   #31
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Thanks Herk.

I'm pretty sure I'll be buying the Trojan SCS225's. I have somebody ordering a pair for me in St. Louis. Just have to drive about 130 miles to pick them up is all. Trojan batteries are hard to come by evidently for where I live.

I spoke with a tech at Trojan also and he told me I should be able to put the full amps from solar array into them. According to my math of probably best case scenario I will be putting 40+ amps into the batteries at 14+ volts. He said 10-20% of the battery amp hours is what I should go by. These batteries will be a total of 260 AH for two of them. So I'm guessing 26-52 amps should be fine.

Somebody let me know if my math is jacked up.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:48 AM   #32
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What's more important is how much you are going use in a typical day and how many days of low or no light you are designing for.

580 watts at 14 volts is 40 ish amps which is maybe around 200 AH a day in decent sun. That's quite a lot of capacity unless you are running a BIG inverter.

How many Amp Hours a day do you need.?
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:04 AM   #33
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I have a single Trojan SCS225 that I use in my Surveyor. It's a great battery.

I paid $190 at Batteries Plus.
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:12 PM   #34
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What's more important is how much you are going use in a typical day and how many days of low or no light you are designing for.

580 watts at 14 volts is 40 ish amps which is maybe around 200 AH a day in decent sun. That's quite a lot of capacity unless you are running a BIG inverter.

How many Amp Hours a day do you need.?
I don't need 200 AH per day. I'm going for overkill. But, there is always a but isn't there. I'm trying to design the solar infrastructure to be portable. In other words I'm wanting to be able to easily detach my solar panels and charger for use on a small cabin. If I so desire. Plus I want to be able to charge as quickly as possible when there is intermittent sunlight and maybe squeeze a little more out of a cloudy day. Overkill is better than underkill IMHO as long as everything plays nice together.

What I'd imagine I'll do when camping is spend to much time on my computers and watch a movie or two during the night on my 32" flat screen and blueray player. Additional wattage will be pulled by computer speakers (w\subwoofer) while watching a movie because sound quality is important. I have a xantrex 1000w pure sine wave inverter for this which I think will be just fine.

I don't plan on any heavy draws like microwave, vacuum, coffee maker, etc. But I'm hoping to purchase a Honda or Yamaha generator in the future for running the air conditioner if I'm too uncomfortable.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:10 PM   #35
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K Lou. I broke down and got some real batteries. I just had to take a vacation day, drive 130+ miles, and drop 400+ dollars....



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Old 03-13-2013, 10:17 PM   #36
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K Lou. I broke down and got some real batteries. I just had to take a vacation day, drive 130+ miles, and drop 400+ dollars....



Do you know the make and model of your Battery Boxes?

I have two SCS225s arriving on Monday, and I'm having trouble finding Battery Boxes that will accommodate the Batteries.

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Old 03-13-2013, 10:24 PM   #37
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Got them from Amazon. Link below. Not a perfect fit though height wise because the height of the bolts on the battery. Width is no problem though. I'm thinking if I replace the wing nuts for the taller bolts it may be ok.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004W5SGBO
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:43 AM   #38
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My Battery Problem is ...

It looks like I have one bad cell in a bank of 4 batteries that are 3 seasons old. I really don't want to buy 4 new batteries. You are supposed to match batteries in a bank.

Suggestions?

Details:
I dry camp for 1-3 months every winter. For the other 9 months it's plugged in or being towed down the road.

Progressive Dynamics 40 amp charger with Charge Wizard.

I have a Trimetric 2025. I use about 80 amp hours a day.

In December 2010 I bought 4 Interstate U2200s. That's 464 ah. I should be able to go two days. I've never gotten more than about 50-80 ah out of them before the voltage drops to 12.2.

That 1st winter I checked with a hydrometer & they were normal. I bought the Black & Decker Vector 40 amp charger so I could get them up to 80-90% with 2-3 hours of generator run time.

The 2nd winter seemed ok. I gave up on the 2 day dream & ran the generator every day.

This past winter I checked again with a hydrometer. One cell was low, well into the white, almost red.

We're home now and the batteries have been charged to 100% as defined by the Charge Wizard - that takes about 3 days. No change on the hydrometer. A 24 hour equalization by the Vector. The good cells got a little better, the bad cell worse - into the red.

One cycle of desulfation (24 hours) and the readings went back to pre-equalization. That could be temperature. This is March in Georgia.

The second desulfation cycle is going now. I'm planning on 5 cycles before I give up.

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