DC only refrigerator issues

[5picker]

Originally Posted by westyfamily

I have been corresponding with the dealer for the last week and was surprised they are going to change my Fridge out at no cost to me with a Propane/DC unit. I'm working with them on schedule at this time.

I used some of your messages as talking points and they agreed that this setup for boonedocking is not going to work.

What I have learned from this fiasco is that sales people never have the knowledge on systems as one would expect.
If I ever buy another one my first question is going to be what unit do you own and how often do you use it. Turns out the sales guy doesn't own a camper and doesn't camp. Red Flag!!!
Never listen to your wife when she says we better get this one the first day you start looking. Love her to death but I should have left and done my research before committing. My mistake.
I do believe this configuration will be phased out do to complaints or severely upgraded to meet the demand of DC powered equipment.

Thank you all for helping me out. I'll post another update when things progress.

Glad you are making some headway.

As for the statement emboldened in blue... don't hold your breath.
As someone mentioned, these 12v compressor refrigerators cost about 1/3 of a DC/LP refrigerator. It is all about cost for the manufacturer. If they are able say you can boondock with a 10¢ refrigerator, that's all they care about.

[tomkatb]

If I were betting I would have given you a 1 in 100 chance of getting a new fridge. Lucky you?

Technically, I can set up a scientific test that will convince you that a single 100 amp battery and small solar collector will power a fridge for most of a weekend.

However, it will never work like that in your situation. Because, there is the rest of the story!

So, technically. the rv salesman is not lying.

Engineering 101. It is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

There is a learning curve to the absorption fridges as well.

[fanrgs]

We have a 12v fridge and love it. We just returned from a month-long RV trip to the SE, with temps near 100 degrees. The propane-120v AC fridges in our FR trailers would not have kept ice cream frozen in those conditions, no matter where we parked. The 12v had no trouble keeping a half-gallon of Death by Chocolate frozen for a week.

We have 300w of flat solar panels on the roof, a 100w portable panel, 30A controller,
and 2 110 AH LiFePO batteries. We were also driving several hundred miles every 2-3 days. We performed an experiment with just the solar systems running the fridge before we left home. We turned the fridge on on Wednesday, stocked it with a few test cold and frozen items on Thursday, loaded it after a grocery run on Friday, then left it on over the weekend. When we took off for Kansas on Monday, everything was still solidly frozen in the freezer and cold in the fridge.

[Reverse_snowbird]

Originally Posted by fanrgs

We have 300w of flat solar panels on the roof, a 100w portable panel, 30A controller,
and 2 110 AH LiFePO batteries. We were also driving several hundred miles every 2-3 days. We performed an experiment with just the solar systems running the fridge before we left home. We turned the fridge on on Wednesday, stocked it with a few test cold and frozen items on Thursday, loaded it after a grocery run on Friday, then left it on over the weekend. When we took off for Kansas on Monday, everything was still solidly froze in the freezer and cold in the fridge.

It's not about the merits of the refrigerator.
You have 400w of solar panels and LiFePO batteries. Those batteries are the key to you being able to boondock because they can discharge to 80% and charge faster than a lead acid battery.

[Dbsborg]

Fanrgs, you’re happy after spending what? Maybe $3000 or so on batteries and solar? With propane, no additional cost.

As mentioned earlier I think our new fridge is defective as it runs almost constantly. I will have to re-evaluate after it is replaced. (Crossed fingers)

It all comes down to different uses for different people. Boondocking with a 12 volt fridge isn’t easy or cheap.

[fanrgs]

Originally Posted by Dbsborg

Fanrgs, you’re happy after spending what? Maybe $3000 or so on batteries and solar? With propane, no additional cost.

Actually, my current solar system cost me $87 out-of-pocket for the 100w portable solar panel from Harbor Freight. The rest of the system was on the MH when we bought it, along with a factory-installed 2000w inverter, convection-microwave, one burner induction cooktop, one propane burner, and no useless 17" propane oven. Both the convection-microwave and induction cooktop can be powered from the inverter. We bought this RV specifically for boondocking and it has been perfect for that.

We will never go back to a propane-AC fridge that must be turned off in some locations, like at gas stations, in tunnels, and on the Alaska Marine Highway ferries, and has trouble keeping everything cold and frozen in summer temps in the West.

[Dbsborg]

Fanrgs, Excellent info, thanks. Maybe a new fridge will convert me. Lithium will help too when wallet allows.

You sound experienced at this, so I’m curious how you feel about generators vs solar. If I got a generator maybe I wouldn’t need solar at all? Many sites in the northeast are tree shaded. I noticed you didn’t mention generator.

[Rhumblefish]

Originally Posted by Dbsborg

Fanrgs, you’re happy after spending what? Maybe $3000 or so on batteries and solar? With propane, no additional cost.

Respectfully, this statement is a fallacy, and it's hard to see it repeated time and again by people passing along rumor instead of experience and/or doing the actual research/work.

YES, a propane fridge has some significant boondocking advantages over 12v. Except it's MORE EXPENSIVE than a 12v fridge. And a new factory 12v fridge with a completely-factory setup solar isn't as far off as you might think.

To challenge Dbsborg's statement, consumers will find that the cost differential of a 12v fridge vs. propane fridge is passed *directly* to the consumer - the 2-way/propane fridge being significantly more expensive (which actually frees up SOME cash to start your solar/battery expansion). Granted, a new camper customer may have to order-and-wait for a propane fridge equivalent (as opposed to taking delivery from existing stock), but there's a cost to go two-way/propane (as opposed to 12v).

To help defray the pain of 12v, Forest River has implemented a (basic) solar+inverter package that comes with the 12v fridge. No, it's not enough to boondock worry-free with, but it does get an owner down the road somewhat. With a factory ~400w of solar (two 195 w panels), and an intelligent choice of battery (get a competitive quote from your dealer for LiFePo, or take without a battery and add your own), you can get pretty close to a boondocking-ready rig without a propane fridge. Plus, all the advantages of a 12v fridge (size/capacity, cooling performance, no packaging constraints, high performance in hot weather, etc), AND some additional power to spare. What's the real cost? An owner/purchaser has to do the work, and learn about what they need and what they will real-world use.

I have a 12v fridge and LOVE it. I expanded my factory solar and battery bank to be completely grid free and independent. While I originally sweated a propane fridge, I ended up making the decision for 12v and am completely happy with it. My solar+battery expansion means I have power for everything (not just fridge), and can even run the air conditioning to take the edge off.

I did buy a generator, as well as a propane kit for it, and a soft-start for the AC. Knowing what I know now, I could leave the generator purchase off, but it provided some ease of mind (just in case). FWIW, I've never used the genny, and have done two 10-day boondocking trips (in addition to several other shorter ones) where we were happily offgrid and not impacted in the slightest.

Were I to do it again, I'd go the same route: 12v fridge, and more solar/battery to enjoy.

Your mileage may vary.

[fanrgs]

Originally Posted by Dbsborg

Fanrgs, Excellent info, thanks. Maybe a new fridge will convert me. Lithium will help too when wallet allows.

You sound experienced at this, so I’m curious how you feel about generators vs solar. If I got a generator maybe I wouldn’t need solar at all? Many sites in the northeast are tree shaded. I noticed you didn’t mention generator.

Our FR TT (bought in March 2011) came with one 12v deep-cycle battery and incandescent interior lights. On cool fall mornings, we could warm the trailer just by turning on all the lights. I added a second 12v deep-cycle battery and converted all the interior bulbs to cheap LEDs ordered frim China (they were very expensive here at that time). That setup is what we had on a 3-month, 9000-mile Alaska trip in 2013. After we got back, I added a roof-mounted, 24v, 235w monocrystalline solar panel and a 25A MPPT controller. 24v panels were more efficient at that time, allowed use of cheaper, smaller AWG wire without significant voltage drop, and began charging the battery earlier in the day. This allowed us to dry camp for 3-4 days or until the tanks filled up.

Never had a generator for that TT or our fifth wheel. I converted the fifth wheel to two 6v, 224A, AGM batteries, and it already had 100% LED interior lights. With the two-way fridge and propane burners and oven, we could again go 3-4 days without recharging.

The MH has a 3600w propane generator that we have used once. The second morning after we dry camped in dense forest at 10,000', two nights of 12v fridge and constantly running furnace drained the lithium batteries. That trip was what led me to buy the portable solar panel as, even in dense forest, there are a few clearings.

My BIL has a Champion 3400w dual-fuel generator and no solar for his 35' Outback TT. It's really slick because it has a remote start-stop controller and can use either a 20# propane cylinder or a connection to the exterior propane line on the trailer. So he never has to carry gasoline for his Ram 2500 diesel truck or his genny. And it can power one of his two AC units on hot summer days. If I needed a backup generator for a trailer these days, that's exactly the one I would buy.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by Dbsborg

Fanrgs, Excellent info, thanks. Maybe a new fridge will convert me. Lithium will help too when wallet allows.

You sound experienced at this, so I’m curious how you feel about generators vs solar. If I got a generator maybe I wouldn’t need solar at all? Many sites in the northeast are tree shaded. I noticed you didn’t mention generator.

I rather have a quality inverter generator, than a solar system. Solar has more limitations than an inverter generator. Solar isn't going to run the a/c or microwave.

[fanrgs]

Originally Posted by bikendan

I rather have a quality inverter generator, than a solar system. Solar has more limitations than an inverter generator. Solar isn't going to run the a/c or microwave.

We have run the convection-microwave, the induction cooktop, and the Keurig coffee maker (not all at the same time, of course) from the inverter to fix breakfast after a night with no solar charging and without running the generator. But the solar panels are recharging the batteries as we are fixing and eating that breakfast.

Admittedly, the inverter is too small to run the AC, so solar doesn't help us there. But we live in Colorado and rarely camp in summer except in the Rockies at 7,500 to 10,000'. So, we seldom need the AC while camping; the furnace gets considerably more use than the AC.

In addition, we are "travelers", not "campers". So, we seldom stay in one place more than 4 days before moving, except when snowbirding south of I-10.. On travel days, the alternator assists the solar in charging the batteries. That's one reason we never needed a generator with either of our FR trailers. When snowbirding, we are in FHU, 55+ RV parks and don't need solar or a generator. Which is a second reason we never needed a generator with the fifth wheel. We were still working when we got the TT, so only snowbirded with it one winter before we sold it.

[Dbsborg]

What a wealth of information here! Thank you to all. I jumped in here to see if others had bad experiences with 12 v refrigerators and I find in general that’s not true. I am now convinced my fridge is defective and my salesman is assisting with a replacement.

We’ll see how my setup works then. The Wolf pup came with a fifty watt solar which clearly wouldn’t do much so I added 200 watt portable solar and bought two 75 ah AGM’s. After reading here, I would’ve made a different battery choice. Keep learning I guess!

[fanrgs]

Being in Maine with a small trailer, your AGMs should work well enough with your current solar array if they are both 12v and if you only camp in summer. Spring and fall camping will be the real test of the system if you have any cool, cloudy days and have to run the furnace at night. That may make an inverter-generator a "need", not a "want", unless you are moving a few hundred miles every 2-3 days like we do. However, keep in mind the even dry camping-only Forest Service campgrounds have quiet hours during nighttime.

So, once you get your new 12v fridge, experiment with it at home where you can plug it in if needed. See how many days the solar will keep ice frozen and maybe run the 12v vent fan during the daytime to add a little extra load. Those loads, plus the propane detector and other parasitic loads, will tell you in a hurry how the system will perform in real-world camping. If you don't have a state-of-charge monitor, use a multimeter to check battery voltages and calculate the charge state. Just keep in mind that you should not exceed 50% of the amp-hours of any lead-acid battery.

Good luck on the new fridge and Happy Camping!

[jdunkmg]

Sorry you had issues. Our experience is a little different. We were new to 12V fridge and solar power as well. I'm not a math person and all those formulas made me shutter. So before we left on our annual cross country trip we turned the fridge on an let it run on solar only for a week and then monitored it. We live in Alabama so we get plenty of sun but during that time there were a bunch of rainy days. Inside camper temps reach 90 plus degrees. There were no issues, batteries never dropped below 12.2v and fully recharged each day regardless of weather conditions. During our trip we used a combination of solar and generators (but as I look back I don't think the generators were always necessary. We also did not turn the inverter on and lights were used only when necessary. We spend most of our time outside the camper so on a normal day the fridge and parasitic devices are the only things using power. I think the next trip Ill get a suitcase solar panel(190 Watts) and so I can move it and leave the generators on the back rack. That being said I do wish our rig had come with an absorption fridge. But it is what it is.

[pdqparalegal1]

Originally Posted by RGrimm

Welcome to the Forest River Forum.

I agree with PopFla, you were lied to.

If you expected to use your camper with NO Hookups 95% of the time you purchased a trailer with the wrong type of refrig.

I camp with Full Hookups almost 100% of the time and love our 12v only Everchill refrig, but you should have purchased a trailer with an absorption style Refrig that will work on LP (or 120vac).

Perhaps there are others on the Forum who also have a camper with your style of Refrig that have found solutions for boondocking and keeping their battery(s) charged and food cold.

Safe Travels.
-Russ

Many will not like to hear this, you may not as well. A small quiet generator will solve a multitude of boon docking problems.
Either invest in a large battery bank and solar or generator.

[PJWMSON]

Lots of good input here for sure. I have a 2021 Palomini 186RBS with a GE 12Vdc GPV10…Fridge.
Similar storey with the salesperson, he just was not trained and honestly believed what he was told to say. Too bad….
My dealer installed a second 200 w solar panel no charge so thanks to them for sure, however it is about power in, power out and storage over time.
Here is what my system is and I found out on the GE FAQ’s:
Fridge rating is for 13.5 amps (surge) and average running draw is 80 watts so say 7-9 amps at 90 f. ( I would like to measure actual but taking their word for it)
Assume duty cycle of 50% then 24 (hrs/day) x .5 (duty cycle) x 9 (amps) = 108 Ah’s. My solar is 2 x 200 w panels and batteries 2x 6volt lead acid 220 Ah’s.
The most I have collected so far is 40 Ah’s
Keep in mind I have not shown my other loads, but they are not much compared to the fridge.
I have lasted 3 days and nights before dropping below 12 volts so not bad considering. I am considering the options, but will be smarter with fridge setting and power use.
No question Palomino misrepresented the unit by classing it as ‘Off Road’ also not to mention the stabilizers are poorly positioned.
I now understand the limitations and will manage with avoiding shaded sites and using my 1000 watt Honda more than I expected.
This fridge is nice though, plenty cold and lots of room.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by pdqparalegal1

Many will not like to hear this, you may not as well. A small quiet generator will solve a multitude of boon docking problems.
Either invest in a large battery bank and solar or generator.

x2!

[PJWMSON]

Yes I do have a small generator and using when needed. Provincial campsites in BC limit generator use to 2 hours morning and 2 hours afternoon, so this in not enough to charge lead acid batteries after a few days camping.
I appreciate sharing the experiences and hopefully helps us all make decisions and have a better camping experience.
As some one already said, either improve the solar/battery bank of go back to an LP fridge.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by PJWMSON

Yes I do have a small generator and using when needed. Provincial campsites in BC limit generator use to 2 hours morning and 2 hours afternoon, so this in not enough to charge lead acid batteries after a few days camping.

I appreciate sharing the experiences and hopefully helps us all make decisions and have a better camping experience.

As some one already said, either improve the solar/battery bank of go back to an LP fridge.

Going back to a 2-way fridge will require venting and lots of propane line modification since 12v only fridges don't need venting.