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Old 10-06-2022, 04:03 PM   #1
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DynaMax Isata 3 Lithium Battery Issue?

Hello, all,
I am a bit puzzled.


We picked up our fairly new, 2022 Dynamax Isata 3 from the storage facility and drove it home. The Firefly system and generator were working properly. We have the Lithium battery option which I believe is 2 ReLion 100 AH batteries (RB100-LT).


We left the RV on shore power all day while we loaded it.

At night we drove the RV to an assigned parking place within our subdivision (no shore power). Only the refrigerator was on overnight. No other battery drains at all (except maybe the Firefly monitor and couple of other monitors working in the background).

At 7:30 AM we picked up the RV. Upon opening the door of the RV the solar charge controller was flashing “601,“ apparently a low battery voltage. The manual says: “Battery disconnected or less than 3.0 v.”
The house battery disconnect switch had no effect on this. Everything was dead; nothing worked.

There was not enough voltage to start the generator or anything else (no Firefly, no lights, nothing).

We drove the RV 1.5 miles back home.

Once back on shore power the battery voltage read 11.2 V on the Victron battery monitor.
On the monitor history it showed: A -0.5 kAh. (That's 500 Ah, right?)


Why did the battery discharge in just 12 hours with only the refrigerator running?



We contacted our local Lazy Days Service Advisor. Her reply:

Quote:
"Normally 12 hours is about how long the battery will run if there is any power to it whatsoever."



Seriously? That doesn't make sense to me. Otherwise how in the world can you go dry camping?



How can we tell if the lithium batteries are bad and/or not able to hold a charge? The Lazy Days folks were not helpful, saying,
Quote:
We do not have a way to test lithium batteries just so your aware
Questions:

Can a 12 volt fridge draw THAT much current to discharge a pair of lithium batteries overnight?

Where can we get lithium batteries tested if not at the RV dealer?

If the house battery is dead how do we start the generator?


Any insights would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,
Ed


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Old 10-06-2022, 04:17 PM   #2
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Maybe consider the old style LA batteries. We usually boondock and my oldest 12v will be 12 years old next spring. Proper maintenance is key. Don't draw below 12.2v or 50% S.O.C. before recharging. The 'old' battery is a 12v Interstate group size 24 deep cycle. My newer one is a Trojan 12v T-1275 deep cycle that gives 160 aH. On our most recent 30 day trip with our 2011 R-Pod 177 we could go 6 days totally offgrid just using batteries with no solar or generator usage. Night temps were in the low 40's so furnace got used a fair amount, which is the largest draw on the batteries. Also needed battery for our fridge mother board, hot water, and lights. A lot less $$ used going this route vs. lithium.
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Old 10-06-2022, 07:11 PM   #3
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Here's some things to know about lithium batteries.
The charge voltage to 100% charged is 14.6v
Resting voltage is 13.6v
Complete discharge voltage is 10v

Not sure where you're located but lithium batteries will not charge below 32 degrees F.

Your batteries are equipped with heaters do they will draw power to keep them warm. Not a lot but some.

You need to use the amp meter to see what your batteries are charging at. The picture shows history so you've used that much power so far.

If you have 200ah of batteries it will take 4hrs at 50amp charge to fully charge them to 14.6v.


You said the volt meter showed 11.2v so you only had 20 to 30 % charge at best.


Do you know how to use the victron amp meter? That is a key piece of equipment you need to understand especially if you plan to boondock.
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Old 10-06-2022, 07:36 PM   #4
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What else was running overnight. Furnaces are big users.

That fridge could possibly consume 10 amps per hour. Assuming hot weather. You improperly loaded it. Not likely!

Possibly the shore power was on but the battery disconnect was in the wrong position.

Who converted the batteries. Mfg or dealer?

My guess is that for some reason the batteries did not charge.

Let’s say operator error! These vehicles are getting stupid complicated.

Plug in to shore power and check voltage to the batteries.
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Old 10-06-2022, 08:14 PM   #5
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I would suggest downloading the VictronConnect app - it will provide the detailed information you need, including history.
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Old 10-06-2022, 09:00 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaktariEd View Post
Hello, all,
I am a bit puzzled.


We picked up our fairly new, 2022 Dynamax Isata 3 from the storage facility and drove it home. The Firefly system and generator were working properly. We have the Lithium battery option which I believe is 2 ReLion 100 AH batteries (RB100-LT).


We left the RV on shore power all day while we loaded it.

At night we drove the RV to an assigned parking place within our subdivision (no shore power). Only the refrigerator was on overnight. No other battery drains at all (except maybe the Firefly monitor and couple of other monitors working in the background).

At 7:30 AM we picked up the RV. Upon opening the door of the RV the solar charge controller was flashing “601,“ apparently a low battery voltage. The manual says: “Battery disconnected or less than 3.0 v.”
The house battery disconnect switch had no effect on this. Everything was dead; nothing worked.

There was not enough voltage to start the generator or anything else (no Firefly, no lights, nothing).

We drove the RV 1.5 miles back home.

Once back on shore power the battery voltage read 11.2 V on the Victron battery monitor.
On the monitor history it showed: A -0.5 kAh. (That's 500 Ah, right?)


Why did the battery discharge in just 12 hours with only the refrigerator running?



We contacted our local Lazy Days Service Advisor. Her reply:




Seriously? That doesn't make sense to me. Otherwise how in the world can you go dry camping?



How can we tell if the lithium batteries are bad and/or not able to hold a charge? The Lazy Days folks were not helpful, saying, Questions:

Can a 12 volt fridge draw THAT much current to discharge a pair of lithium batteries overnight?

Where can we get lithium batteries tested if not at the RV dealer?

If the house battery is dead how do we start the generator?


Any insights would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,
Ed


Ed,
Just some random thoughts:
1. 11.2v puts you at 5 percent capacity. It is for all practical purposes dead.

2. Your AH meter has what appears to be a negative sign in front of the .05AH. So it is in agreement with the 11.5 volt reading.

3. Possibly your batteries are in sleep mode. SM is when the BMS shuts off the battery to protect it from damage. In sleep mode the battery bms needs to be woken up in order to take a charge. Different manufacturers set the SM at different capacities.

4. You need to purchase a 20 clamp meter and a battery charger. Charge up the batteries to full capacity and return them to the trailer. Shut down the trailer as you stated you did and get a amperage reading on the positive cable of the battery and record how much amperage is going out. How does that compare to your known loads? I suspect you have more usage than you think. You could use your RV to charge the batteries if you wish. Just independently verify they are fully charged.

As others have said, you can download the Victron app and do the same thing. These tests combined with a usage inventory can tell us a lot. Also some specs on the battery would help.
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Old 10-07-2022, 07:27 AM   #7
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FYI - I have the same unit/model year with the same battery set-up, it is drawing a lot of power when not connected to shore power even with the refer (and every appliance) turned off. I have not had time to analyze each circuit to find the culprit - but next week I will be setting up for a trip and doing some research before I leave. If I find something I will post.
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Old 10-07-2022, 11:46 AM   #8
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Thanks for all the replies.
Lots to think about and check!


Quote:
Here's some things to know about lithium batteries.
The charge voltage to 100% charged is 14.6v
Resting voltage is 13.6v
Complete discharge voltage is 10v

Not sure where you're located but lithium batteries will not charge below 32 degrees F.

Your batteries are equipped with heaters do they will draw power to keep them warm. Not a lot but some.

You need to use the amp meter to see what your batteries are charging at. The picture shows history so you've used that much power so far.

If you have 200ah of batteries it will take 4hrs at 50amp charge to fully charge them to 14.6v.


You said the volt meter showed 11.2v so you only had 20 to 30 % charge at best.


Do you know how to use the victron amp meter? That is a key piece of equipment you need to understand especially if you plan to boondock.
We're in Tucson, AZ, so no tank heaters at work.
I do not yet understand the Victron amp meter. I'll get to work on that, and the Victron app and see if that helps as well.




Quote:
Possibly the shore power was on but the battery disconnect was in the wrong position.

Who converted the batteries. Mfg or dealer?
I don't think the disconnect was in wrong position; we had it "on" when we picked it up from storage.


Batteries are manufacturer (DynaMax) installed.




Quote:
3. Possibly your batteries are in sleep mode. SM is when the BMS shuts off the battery to protect it from damage. In sleep mode the battery bms needs to be woken up in order to take a charge. Different manufacturers set the SM at different capacities.

4. You need to purchase a 20 clamp meter and a battery charger. Charge up the batteries to full capacity and return them to the trailer. Shut down the trailer as you stated you did and get a amperage reading on the positive cable of the battery and record how much amperage is going out. How does that compare to your known loads? I suspect you have more usage than you think. You could use your RV to charge the batteries if you wish. Just independently verify they are fully charged.
If the batteries/BMS is in sleep mode, is there anything I need to do to "wake them up," or will the BMS do that when shore power is restored?


I have a trickle charger for regular lead acid batteries, but I do not have a dedicated charger for lithium batteries, other than what is installed in the RV as part of the electrical/battery system.


Ed

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Old 10-07-2022, 02:27 PM   #9
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Did you mention you had a Victron Monitor. I have a Victron-712 that gives you a ton of information continuously. It shows the amp consumption at any given moment as well as how long your batteries will last at that rate. Also I don't know if the 2022 still has the battery interconnect switch on the left side of the dash like my 2016 does. It is a spring loaded switch that you can hold down to feed current from your chassis battery to your house batteries (designed to start the MH with a dead chassis battery but works both directions). If they are totally dead it might not be enough to start your generator. Starting your coach will supply over 14vdc to them also. I boondock exclusively and have 2 Battleborn 100AH Batteries and can go for a long time BUT I do not have a residential fridge. The key is to know how much current is drawn from each device and manage your power carefully. The Smart BMV App working with your Victron is your best friend.
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Old 10-07-2022, 03:21 PM   #10
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Did you mention you had a Victron Monitor. I have a Victron-712 that gives you a ton of information continuously. It shows the amp consumption at any given moment as well as how long your batteries will last at that rate. Also I don't know if the 2022 still has the battery interconnect switch on the left side of the dash like my 2016 does. It is a spring loaded switch that you can hold down to feed current from your chassis battery to your house batteries (designed to start the MH with a dead chassis battery but works both directions). If they are totally dead it might not be enough to start your generator. Starting your coach will supply over 14vdc to them also. I boondock exclusively and have 2 Battleborn 100AH Batteries and can go for a long time BUT I do not have a residential fridge. The key is to know how much current is drawn from each device and manage your power carefully. The Smart BMV App working with your Victron is your best friend.



Yes, we have the Victron BMV 712 Smart.
I downloaded the manuals for the MBV unit and the VictronConnect app, and hope to dig into those soon.
I'll definitely keep a close watch on power consumption to work out the best power conservation plan...



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Old 10-07-2022, 05:51 PM   #11
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Only the refrigerator was on overnight.
Did you leave the fridge on battery or propane? If the fridge was on battery, I think it would indeed deplete the batteries in 12 hours. In my former RV without lithium batteries, my fridge would deplete the batteries in only 4 hours. Whenever I leave the RV for more than 2 hours with the fridge on, I always switch it to propane.
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Old 10-07-2022, 06:00 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Juno 2022 View Post
Did you leave the fridge on battery or propane? If the fridge was on battery, I think it would indeed deplete the batteries in 12 hours. In my former RV without lithium batteries, my fridge would deplete the batteries in only 4 hours. Whenever I leave the RV for more than 2 hours with the fridge on, I always switch it to propane.

Yes, we did leave it on battery..
Had no idea that 200 Ah was insufficient for the 12 volt fridge.


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Old 10-07-2022, 07:07 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by DaktariEd View Post
Yes, we did leave it on battery..
Had no idea that 200 Ah was insufficient for the 12 volt fridge.


You said it was a Residential Fridge so Battery is the only option?
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Old 10-07-2022, 08:02 PM   #14
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Yes, we did leave it on battery..
Had no idea that 200 Ah was insufficient for the 12 volt fridge.


I've learned the hard way too...hopefully your batteries are not too dead to revive. Good luck!
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Old 10-07-2022, 08:04 PM   #15
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You said it was a Residential Fridge so Battery is the only option?
Isata 3 does not have a residential fridge...two-way...propane or electric. Can run off batteries with inverter but not for 12 hours.
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Old 10-07-2022, 09:39 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by DaktariEd View Post
Thanks for all the replies.
Lots to think about and check!



We're in Tucson, AZ, so no tank heaters at work.
I do not yet understand the Victron amp meter. I'll get to work on that, and the Victron app and see if that helps as well.





I don't think the disconnect was in wrong position; we had it "on" when we picked it up from storage.


Batteries are manufacturer (DynaMax) installed.





If the batteries/BMS is in sleep mode, is there anything I need to do to "wake them up," or will the BMS do that when shore power is restored?


I have a trickle charger for regular lead acid batteries, but I do not have a dedicated charger for lithium batteries, other than what is installed in the RV as part of the electrical/battery system.


Ed

Purportedly Victron chargers will wake up lifepo4 batteries that are in sleep mode. Most chargers will not charge a shut down lifepo4 battery because they don't sense it as being a battery because the BMS is figuratively telling the charger that it isn't a chargeable battery.

Basically, you need to connect another battery to your dead battery and then charge it with a charger. In this way the charger senses a battery and sends current to it.

I connected my house battery to my truck 12v battery like I was jumpstarting the battery. Then I connected the charger and charged the dead battery. There are numerous videos on YouTube depicting the process.

Like I said earlier, I still think your issue is that you are using more power than you realize. On my shunt monitor I can see power coming and going from the battery. See what you are using at night when the RV is shut down and compute the amp hours you need compared to what your batteries have in storage.
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Old 10-09-2022, 11:03 AM   #17
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OK, so I was reading all the info I could find on our refrigerator (Dometic 2672), and noted that the selector switch has "Auto" and "Gas" modes.
We had it in Auto mode.
In this setting the system automatically uses shore power AC if connected, but when disconnected, it switches automatically to gas.
So in theory the RV fridge should have been running off propane overnight.
Perhaps the fridge burner didn't ignite properly????
Then what? Would it try drawing from the inverter?


And our propane tank is at 25%. Is that too low to ignite the fridge burner?



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Old 10-09-2022, 01:14 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaktariEd View Post
OK, so I was reading all the info I could find on our refrigerator (Dometic 2672), and noted that the selector switch has "Auto" and "Gas" modes.
We had it in Auto mode.
In this setting the system automatically uses shore power AC if connected, but when disconnected, it switches automatically to gas.
So in theory the RV fridge should have been running off propane overnight.
Perhaps the fridge burner didn't ignite properly????
Then what? Would it try drawing from the inverter?


And our propane tank is at 25%. Is that too low to ignite the fridge burner?



Just be sure the Propane is turned on, I've done that before.
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Old 10-09-2022, 01:56 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaktariEd View Post
OK, so I was reading all the info I could find on our refrigerator (Dometic 2672), and noted that the selector switch has "Auto" and "Gas" modes.
We had it in Auto mode.
In this setting the system automatically uses shore power AC if connected, but when disconnected, it switches automatically to gas.
So in theory the RV fridge should have been running off propane overnight.
Perhaps the fridge burner didn't ignite properly????
Then what? Would it try drawing from the inverter?


And our propane tank is at 25%. Is that too low to ignite the fridge burner?


It will switch to propane if the propane is on. If not, and the inverter is on, it will run off the inverter...but that's what will run your batteries down overnight.
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Old 10-10-2022, 06:30 PM   #20
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It looks like during my initial test (was short) but running at 27 amps per hour max (lot of variables) - that would give you about 7 1/2 hours on fully charged Relion's assuming no other usage. I would say the max you would get (once again a lot of variables) would maybe be 10 hours.

Running on LP the refer still uses some power but much less - batteries (assuming no other drain) would last north of 60 hours.
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