Electrical Problem, dangerous or safe? - Page 3

Tom48 · 06-15-2021, 12:43 AM

InIf you have never plugged that in to a GFI outlet, The problem maybe within your coach itself. If the coach is not plugged into shore power there should be no continuity between the neutral prong and the ground prom. If I understood correctly you said that there was continuity between the neutral and the ground on the male and of your 30 amp cord. I hope it's something as simple as the cord is shorted and a new cord solves your problem but it may be more fundamental than that. Someone may have ground bonded the neutral in the ground together in the box in your coach. That would be a rookie mistake. Your coach is in effect a sub panel plugged into some primary source. A subpanel should never have the neutral bus ground bonded. Ground bonding occurs only at the main panel or in other words the source of your power. The coach may have been built like that and if it was never plugged into a GFI receptacle you would never have know. A ground bonded sub panel can be dangerous. In an RV it can be extremely dangerous.

Best of luck

Invisibleman · 06-15-2021, 07:41 AM

This is a very complicated and potentially dangerous undertaking. Understanding the difference in grounding and bonding is complicated even for the experienced. Electricians spend many hours in classrooms and text books to get a good understand of this subject. This is NOT a simple matter of continuity. Ground and neutral will have continuity but their resistance, impedance, is a totally different matter. I am sorry, but I simply cannot provide you, safely, the information that you would like in this format. I cannot get a good understanding of what is going on from your photos. And to reiterate, playing around disconnecting ground or neutral wires, even for "testing" is VERY dangerous for the untrained. I STRONGLY suggest you stop what you are doing, and get a licensed electrician to ring this out for you, find out what is wrong and fix it. It also would be a good idea to have an electrician check the source your are plugging your shore power cord into, for proper wiring and protection. That can also be a culprit in this matter. And it may be a combination of things. Like I said, it's complicated.

Vmatt · 06-15-2021, 08:53 AM

I’m just throwing in something that happened to us. Once it had rained all week and one evening, it was so foggy/misty, the air was wet. Our outside plug was on the circuit with the gfi receptacle in the camper. It kept tripping. We finally figured out it was the wet air tripping it due to the outside receptacle. There didn’t appear to be water in the receptacle but the wet air was doing it. We took a plastic bag and covered it. The next day, the air cleared and the problem stopped. It never occurred again. We think the air was so thick it was tripping it. Never happened again. Just a thought.

Sleepy · 06-15-2021, 10:08 AM

I appreciate the excellent points made here. I fully appreciate the fact that it literally takes years to fully understand electricity. I respect your extensive education and would never think I would "fully" understand all aspects. I, being the type that enjoys learning, was just hoping to better understand the basics I guess. I did a lot of electrical work many years ago when in the HVAC industry, but certainly am no electrician nor anywhere close. I respect you guys and your knowledge.
I think the problem was identified and corrected hopefully, but if it were to rear its ugly head again, I was merely hoping to have a better understanding.
Your help is valued, and appreciated.
Thank you.

hazmat456 · 06-15-2021, 06:02 PM

I don't know why anyone would think that there wouldn't be continuity between the ground and neutral. There should be as the terminate at the same place in the panel. If you don't have continuity there something is wrong.

pmurph991 · 07-03-2021, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazmat456

I don't know why anyone would think that there wouldn't be continuity between the ground and neutral. There should be as the terminate at the same place in the panel. If you don't have continuity there something is wrong.

When the trailer is NOT plugged into shore power you should not have continuity between neutral and ground. It you do and you plug into a GFCI circuit, you WILL trip the GFCI.

**KyDan** · 07-03-2021, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmurph991

When the trailer is NOT plugged into shore power you should not have continuity between neutral and ground. It you do and you plug into a GFCI circuit, you WILL trip the GFCI.

I do not think this is completely accurate.
Sometimes ground and neutral are connected.
My home has ground and neutral connected.
I plug my trailer into my home and the CFCI in my trailer works
fine. I'm not sure about my trailer- but I wouldn't be surprised if ground and neutral were connected in there somewhere.

**wmtire** · 07-03-2021, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyDan

I do not think this is completely accurate.
Sometimes ground and neutral are connected.
My home has ground and neutral connected.
I plug my trailer into my home and the CFCI in my trailer works
fine. I'm not sure about my trailer- but I wouldn't be surprised if ground and neutral were connected in there somewhere.

A RV electric panel is considered a subpanel as it fed from another panel when on shore power. Subpanel by code are supposed to have their neutral and safety ground bus bars separate from each other....wirh the only connection point at the main panel.

Mike Sokol explains this better. I'll find his article.

nomad297 · 07-03-2021, 07:50 AM

Why neutrals and grounds are connected in a main panel:

https://youtu.be/nKWf7XTg-wg

Why neutrals and grounds are separated in a sub panel:

https://youtu.be/5iEuaAYs5x4

Bruce

**wmtire** · 07-03-2021, 08:01 AM

Thanks Bruce. That will save me search time.

Half Ton Heavy · 07-03-2021, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmurph991

When the trailer is NOT plugged into shore power you should not have continuity between neutral and ground. It you do and you plug into a GFCI circuit, you WILL trip the GFCI.

Absolutely.

pmurph991 · 07-03-2021, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyDan

I do not think this is completely accurate.
Sometimes ground and neutral are connected.
My home has ground and neutral connected.
I plug my trailer into my home and the CFCI in my trailer works
fine. I'm not sure about my trailer- but I wouldn't be surprised if ground and neutral were connected in there somewhere.

I wouldn't be surprised either BUT they should NOT be connected together at any point after the "Service Disconnect". Sometimes if you connect a GFCI downstream of another GFCI they do not play well with each other. It's hit or miss, sometimes they work fine sometimes they don't.

Tom48 · 07-03-2021, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmtire

A RV electric panel is considered a subpanel as it fed from another panel when on shore power. Subpanel by code are supposed to have their neutral and safety ground bus bars separate from each other....wirh the only connection point at the main panel.

Mike Sokol explains this better. I'll find his article.

I think you said it perfectly. Some are hard headed and Ground bond a sub panel, other times it is simple error during the install, but ground bonding at the sub panel is exposing you to danger several ways.

NEVER GROUND BOND A SUBPANEL!

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