EMS issue or inline fuse issue?

wardster · 07-26-2018, 07:16 PM

Hello,

I have have had my hybrid Shamrock for about a year. I have been running it off a generator, 4,750 running watts, for the same amount of time. I also have the PG EMS installed. Recently, i received an error of High Voltage. I took the genny in to be tested and while that was being worked on I was using our camps backup genny, 5,500 running watts, and was receiving Low Voltage error. Then the EMS stopped all power to the RV, showing a previous error of Low Voltage. It was at this time I noticed that the DC power did not kick on. Not wanting to mess with the battery I just bypassed the EMS and the genny power seemed to work fine. In the am I checked the inline 20 amp fuse by the battery and it was faulty. I installed a new one and that worked for a day or so. I shut down the genny to leave and I noticed I lost DC power again, as my disconnect switch was still in the on position. I have not had a chance to see if that new fuse failed yet, I will tomorrow. Battery seems to have enough charge and it's never dropped below one bar on the read out and it's rarely used (only to power the fridge during some daylight work hours).

I won't have internet service after tomorrow afternoon so thought I would ask the pro's before I go troubleshooting in the dark, so to speak.

I don't think it's a problem with the genny? Could the EMS be bad? Doesn't that only read what's going on from there to the power source? I'm not sure if a faulty converter would cause an error on the EMS. My other issue is what might be causing my DC to go out. Possibly I just ran into a bad fuse?

Sorry for the rant, I'm just trying to anticipate some questions to my issue.

Thanks gang!!!

Duckogram · 07-26-2018, 07:42 PM

The rant is fine but you are seriously mixing AC (120v) systems and equipment with DC (12v) systems and equipment. If you would like to do a diagnostic, you will need a multi meter and focus on one system and one piece of equipment at a time.
The only link between the two systems is the converter. So I suggest beginning with your 12v system and work from there. The battery(s): one bar is abysmal. I suggest getting a charger on it/them ASAP. When you return to electron land, we (the folks with knowledge) can help you through step by step.

wardster · 07-26-2018, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duckogram

The rant is fine but you are seriously mixing AC (120v) systems and equipment with DC (12v) systems and equipment. If you would like to do a diagnostic, you will need a multi meter and focus on one system and one piece of equipment at a time.
The only link between the two systems is the converter. So I suggest beginning with your 12v system and work from there. The battery(s): one bar is abysmal. I suggest getting a charger on it/them ASAP. When you return to electron land, we (the folks with knowledge) can help you through step by step.

Thanks. I made a couple edits to my post as I can see where I was blending in 2 problems. I know I should look into it more so I can provide more details. From my limited experience, I have 2 issues. Error readings on EMS and my dc power not kicking on when the genny is turned off. I’ll be putting a multimeter to the batt tomorrow and checking the in-line fuse. Thanks again for the response.

rsdata · 07-26-2018, 08:23 PM

sounds to me from your statement "my dc power not kicking on when the genny is turned off." that your 12V battery is low...

your trailer converter only supplies a small amount of charging current when on shore 120VAC power, so probably your battery has not charged up enough... I have a dedicated charger that can provide up to 8 amps that I use plugged into the trailer 120VAC and the + wire to the battery from the trailer disconnected... when it is fully charged, I then reconnect the positive battery wire to the trailer and I know I have full 12VDC power when I need it without shore power...

your EMS is a separate issue

from the genny wattages you quote it sounds as if these are NOT inverter style generators, therefore voltages (VAC) from non-inverter open frame style gennys surge or sag (HIGH or LOW) depending on the load on the engine... which is probably accounting for the EMS readings once showing high and once showing low... probably a non-problem other than the EMS catching the surge and recording it as an error...

CHICKDOE · 07-26-2018, 08:43 PM

it does sound like you have two different problems, 120vac and 12vdc. and one generator runs high voltage and one runs low voltage. the ems measures and takes action on the power coming into it. your converter will have no effect on the ems. put that multimeter on the input to the ems and get an ac voltage reading. if it is ok and the ems is showing an error condition then it could be the ems. if voltage reading is the same as the ems then your power generator has a problem. get the 120 vac working,

then you can tackle the 12 vdc issues. verify the output voltage from your converter. if it is improper you may not be charging the battery. one bar says the battery is low. i'm not sure what the 20 amp fuse is, but if it is in the battery charging circuit it could be that the converter is sensing a very low battery and putting out more than 20 amps which is blowing that fuse. again, i do not know where that fuse is, how it is wired, or what it is trying to protect.

get the 120 vac working first!

**Flybob** · 07-26-2018, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wardster

my dc power not kicking on when the genny is turned off. .

Your DC power should be supplied by a combination of the converter and the battery. The 12DC system is always on unless you have blown fuses, battery disconnect in wrong position, or no/dead battery.

Duckogram · 07-26-2018, 09:57 PM

Just a thought gents. The OP is camping. No 12v and nothing works except the cook top. Adding only 120v gives you a microwave.

CHICKDOE · 07-27-2018, 07:28 AM

battery is low (one bar). using a generator to power things, including recharging the battery. yet ems is showing both over and under voltage from the generator and interrupting it. how are you going to recharge the battery?

Duckogram · 07-27-2018, 09:03 AM

Camp has backup genset = Camp has power
Get battery charger, plug into camp power, charge battery.
(Or plug charger into backup genset directly)
Go fishing with the kids, come back later.

BTW, which system you fix first is going to depend a great deal on what is broken. So it is really a coin toss.

wardster · 07-27-2018, 10:02 AM

Thanks Gang,

Def narrowed where I should check. When I say battery is at 1 bar I meant only down 1 bar, as in 1 bar from being full, not 1 bar till "empty" and I know they are not that reliable.

Again thanks!! This place is always helpful!!!!

Duckogram · 07-27-2018, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wardster

Thanks Gang,

Def narrowed where I should check. When I say battery is at 1 bar I meant only down 1 bar, as in 1 bar from being full, not 1 bar till "empty" and I know they are not that reliable.

Again thanks!! This place is always helpful!!!!

Thats good news. Keep us updated please.

wardster · 07-29-2018, 04:24 PM

Well, I believe my EMS is faulty and will call Progressive industries this week. As soon as I get AC power is reads a “Previous Error” of high voltage and will not allow any power to the rig. I can bypass it for now and everything works.

As for my DC issue, battery was tested and full. Inline fuse replaced and still not getting DC power to anything. I replaced the inline fuse, which is right off the battery, 3x to be sure it wasn’t a faulty fuse. I don’t really use DC power much but would like the option.
Thoughts?

CHICKDOE · 07-29-2018, 05:29 PM

i would like to know what progressive has to say. my understanding is that the previous error will get cleared when you remove power to theems unit. is there a current error code (the one that starts with just E)? is the ems showing an input voltage level? do you have a voltage measurement taken with a multimeter? do you know if using the manual bypass disables any current error code?

Duckogram · 07-29-2018, 06:19 PM

Just a thought... When you energize the AC and get a PE3 - High Voltage above 132v, that does not mean anything related to what you have now. Soooo, if your EMS box is jumpered for “delay” you will have to wait the 2 min until the timer beeps and engages the juice.

wardster · 07-29-2018, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duckogram

Just a thought... When you energize the AC and get a PE3 - High Voltage above 132v, that does not mean anything related to what you have now. Soooo, if your EMS box is jumpered for “delay” you will have to wait the 2 min until the timer beeps and engages the juice.

Yes. I start up the genny, after rv has been without power for a week, and Ems instantly shows a “previous error”. Not a current one. This is without turning on A/C. I did not take recall if it was showing any readings on amps and such.
I’ll follow up with what PI says. I have faith in them based off their reputation.

CHICKDOE · 07-29-2018, 08:20 PM

please forward what progressive says. the manual clearly states that the previous error condition is cleared when power is removed from the ems. you say the ems hasn't seen power for a week, so there should be no previous error still stored in it. sure would be nice to have a voltage reading from a multimeter.

CHICKDOE · 08-01-2018, 11:11 AM

what did progressive have to say?

wardster · 08-01-2018, 05:24 PM

I have not contacted them yet, but I promise I will let everyone know what they say. I did some more reading and there are a couple things I want to check out before I call them. Basically, I'm trying to anticipate their questions and since I don't have my rig near me, or internet while I'm there, I'm going to check a few things on my next trip up.

Thanks!

wardster · 08-01-2018, 05:37 PM

I'm googling now how to get a voltage reading from my generator on my harbor freight multimeter as I have never done this before, besides batteries....

wardster · 10-31-2018, 09:09 AM

I finally got around to calling PI on my EMS. They said it sounds like a manufacturer defect and it does have a lifetime warranty.

I need to find my receipt, take a couple pictures and fill out the claim so they will mail me a new one.

Now I just need to find the time to pull it as it's hard wired in a tight, tight spot behind my elec panel!!!

Very friendly people.

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