Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-24-2019, 11:52 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 112
Generator/ Reverse Polarity Question

Hey folks, I did the search thing but could not find any info on this specific issue. I have a 3200w inverter generator and today tried my shiny new Surge Guard 34930. I read how these generators have an open ground so I purchased this bonding plug: https://rvpower.southwire.com/produc...g-model-44400/

As expected, without the bonding plug, my SP gave me the open ground error and would not pass power through. Figured this would be resolved by popping in the bonding plug but instead, the SP now throws a reverse polarity error and will not provide power.

I tried again using my outlet tester this time and with no bonding plug it showed "open". When I plugged it in, the tester immediately switched to "correct". I then re-plugged the SP in and it still says reverse polarity.

My knowledge in this arena is marginal at best and I am wondering if anyone here has encountered this or may have some suggestions. Thanks as always.
JaysFan64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2019, 05:10 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 112
Part II

I went and bought a 30m to 15f adapter and then plugged in my tester. With the bonding plug inserted it came back with HOT/NEU REV based on the little legend thingy.

When I remove the bonding plug, I get just the middle light (open ground).

Very puzzled. Can someone shed some light on what I am dealing with here? Thanks!
JaysFan64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2019, 10:50 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 112
Well, closing in on 100 views. I guess that's something lol
JaysFan64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2019, 11:09 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
onetonford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Lodi CA
Posts: 1,211
Check your bonding plug is grounding the neutral side of the plug. Test the wide prong to ground prong should be connected if the narrow prong is connected to the ground prong than it is wrong.
__________________

2001 Ford F-350 DRW 7.3
2011 25 RL Wildcat
former fiver 1976 Fourwinds had for 35 years
onetonford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2019, 11:11 AM   #5
llr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 1,680
do you have a voltmeter and know how to use it and use it around live power? If not get help for this.

Remove the bonding plug then:
With the meter carefully measure from the small slot (Hot) in the outlet to the large slot (Common), then the small slot yo the round hole (ground) both of these should be ~120VC. Then measure common to ground and it should be very low or zero.

if everything above checks out then try it again with the bonding plug.

Post your results.
__________________
2024 Artic Fox 3018 5th Wheel
Grand Design 2800BH TT 2021 - for sale
Prior TT 2017 Flagstaff 831CLBSS Classic Ultra lite - SOLD 5/21
TV 2024 F350 DRW - on order
Prior TV 2017 F150 6.5' bed 3.5 Eco-boost Max tow 1800lbs payload
llr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2019, 11:53 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by onetonford View Post
Check your bonding plug is grounding the neutral side of the plug. Test the wide prong to ground prong should be connected if the narrow prong is connected to the ground prong than it is wrong.
Thanks. Will do! The bonding plug is made by Surge Guard and that sucker is sealed up tight so I will mangle it trying to get it apart. Others have also suggested it could be the plug so I am going to make my own and try that first.
JaysFan64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2019, 11:54 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
fonzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 4,167
Could be the generator also that is not wired properly. So need to check polarity of generator first.
__________________
Fonzie
2011 Rockwood 8319SS with ProPride 3P hitch/GoodYear Marathons/TST TPMS 507
2019 F350 Ruby Red 6.7l diesel 3.31 axle electronic locker
Yamaha 3000iseb generator:Progressive Ind. EMS-HW30C : Eastern Ontario
Nights Camped: 2014 (18) 2015 (18) 2016 (36) 2017 (32) 2018 (42) 2019 (28) 2020 (35)
fonzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2019, 11:57 AM   #8
Site Team
 
Flybob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 15,266
You didn't say what generator.
__________________

2015 Freedom Express 248RBS
TV 2015 Silverado HD2500 Duramax
TST Tire Monitors
Honda 2000I + Companion
2 100W solar panels
Flybob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2019, 12:00 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by llr View Post
do you have a voltmeter and know how to use it and use it around live power? If not get help for this.

Remove the bonding plug then:
With the meter carefully measure from the small slot (Hot) in the outlet to the large slot (Common), then the small slot yo the round hole (ground) both of these should be ~120VC. Then measure common to ground and it should be very low or zero.

if everything above checks out then try it again with the bonding plug.

Post your results.
I appreciate the reply. I do have a voltmeter and will give this another shot. It's possible I did not check both as you suggested.

I reached out to Surge Guard support and the tech could not determine how I am seeing a reverse polarity error on the 30 amp receptacle but recommended trying another plug. I have scoured the internet and found only one example of this exact issue and it turned out to be incorrect wiring inside the generator. Really hope it doesn't come down to that.
JaysFan64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2019, 12:04 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by fonzie View Post
Could be the generator also that is not wired properly. So need to check polarity of generator first.
Thanks and yes, could very well could be. This below discussion is about the exact same problem and the pic on page 3 explains it all. An incorrectly wired 30 amp receptacle.

https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/f...g/1/page/1.cfm

So, how does one correctly test the polarity on the generator? This is all new to me.
JaysFan64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2019, 12:09 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flybob View Post
You didn't say what generator.
Hi, it's an Energizer eZV3200P

And in this video, Ray from Love Your RV is successfully testing his out with a bonding plug (at 16:30).

Total head scratcher.
JaysFan64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2019, 02:37 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Swampy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaysFan64 View Post
Hey folks, I did the search thing but could not find any info on this specific issue. I have a 3200w inverter generator and today tried my shiny new Surge Guard 34930. I read how these generators have an open ground so I purchased this bonding plug: https://rvpower.southwire.com/produc...g-model-44400/

As expected, without the bonding plug, my SP gave me the open ground error and would not pass power through. Figured this would be resolved by popping in the bonding plug but instead, the SP now throws a reverse polarity error and will not provide power.

I tried again using my outlet tester this time and with no bonding plug it showed "open". When I plugged it in, the tester immediately switched to "correct". I then re-plugged the SP in and it still says reverse polarity.

My knowledge in this arena is marginal at best and I am wondering if anyone here has encountered this or may have some suggestions. Thanks as always.
JaysFan64;

I have a friend that experienced exactly the same problem as you describe. I checked out his generator and it did not have the neutral bonded, hence his EMS would block power to the RV. I suggested that he make a bonding plug for use in one of the 20A generator outlets. I made a wire bypass to plug into the ground and neutral to show him that there was nothing wrong with the generator. His EMS worked fine. The next weekend, he calls me to tell me that he made the bonding plug, but the generator still is not putting power thru his EMS because he has reverse polarity. I went over and checked it out and found that he had run the jumper in the plug from Hot to Ground. I was surprised that something hadn't burned out in the inverter, but it apparently works with either hot or neutral bonded to ground. I reversed the jumper wiring in the plug and all is well. Moral of the story is to be careful of which way you view the terminal labeling.

Since you are using the Southwire bonding plug, I would assume that it is wired correctly, but you can measure the connectivity between the round ground prong and the larger Neutral prong on your plug. It should read zero Ohms or if you have a continuity tester, it will beep between those two prongs only ... if not then something is wrong with the plug. Unless someone has been moving the wiring around on the inside of the generator, you should be good to go.

I hope this helps you diagnose what is wrong! ........ Swampy
__________________
Jim (Swampy), Susie, Jimmy & The Chihuahua Crew
2008 Chevy Silverado LS, 4.3L, V6, 2WD, 3.23:1

2014 287 BHBE; 1981 JayRaven: Predator 3500i - Call Home Pearl River, Louisiana. on The Honey Island Swamp
https://www.forestriverforums.com/at...pic81807_1.gif
Swampy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2019, 02:45 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Port Charlotte Fl/Hinsdale Ma
Posts: 4,823
You do not need the SP on your gen. It is designed to be used on power companies equipment.
cavie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2019, 02:47 PM   #14
llr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 1,680
Does you generator have a 30A socket? or just the standard household 15/20 amp outlet?

The step I provided above will test the wiring on a 15/20 amp outlet, I can look up the 30 amp if you need
__________________
2024 Artic Fox 3018 5th Wheel
Grand Design 2800BH TT 2021 - for sale
Prior TT 2017 Flagstaff 831CLBSS Classic Ultra lite - SOLD 5/21
TV 2024 F350 DRW - on order
Prior TV 2017 F150 6.5' bed 3.5 Eco-boost Max tow 1800lbs payload
llr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2019, 03:35 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampy View Post
JaysFan64;

I have a friend that experienced exactly the same problem as you describe. I checked out his generator and it did not have the neutral bonded, hence his EMS would block power to the RV. I suggested that he make a bonding plug for use in one of the 20A generator outlets. I made a wire bypass to plug into the ground and neutral to show him that there was nothing wrong with the generator. His EMS worked fine. The next weekend, he calls me to tell me that he made the bonding plug, but the generator still is not putting power thru his EMS because he has reverse polarity. I went over and checked it out and found that he had run the jumper in the plug from Hot to Ground. I was surprised that something hadn't burned out in the inverter, but it apparently works with either hot or neutral bonded to ground. I reversed the jumper wiring in the plug and all is well. Moral of the story is to be careful of which way you view the terminal labeling.

Since you are using the Southwire bonding plug, I would assume that it is wired correctly, but you can measure the connectivity between the round ground prong and the larger Neutral prong on your plug. It should read zero Ohms or if you have a continuity tester, it will beep between those two prongs only ... if not then something is wrong with the plug. Unless someone has been moving the wiring around on the inside of the generator, you should be good to go.

I hope this helps you diagnose what is wrong! ........ Swampy
Thanks so much for this. I was not aware of how to test the plug itself but will do so tonight. Pretty sure my multimeter has that function. I hope that's the problem and not the generator. Even the Southwire Tech thought it is their plug causing the issue so I am going to put my own together and give it a go.
JaysFan64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2019, 03:39 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavie View Post
You do not need the SP on your gen. It is designed to be used on power companies equipment.
Yep, I have been told that but we will be boondocking a lot on our off-grid property and relying heavily on this generator. I guess my paranoia is getting the better of me lol.

If this doesn't get resolved I will skip the SP. Can't afford another generator.
JaysFan64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2019, 03:41 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by llr View Post
Does you generator have a 30A socket? or just the standard household 15/20 amp outlet?

The step I provided above will test the wiring on a 15/20 amp outlet, I can look up the 30 amp if you need
That would be helpful as it does have a 30 amp outlet that I attach the twist lock adapter to. Here is a pic of the panel with the protective covers flipped up.

Much appreciated!
JaysFan64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2019, 07:28 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
dbledan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: KS
Posts: 2,369
I would check the 30A outlet and the one you are plugging in the N-G plug. Either one could be reversed.

I use my EMS with my generator. I trust it less than the power company...power company does not stop when it runs out of gas.
dbledan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2019, 10:35 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbledan View Post
I would check the 30A outlet and the one you are plugging in the N-G plug. Either one could be reversed.

I use my EMS with my generator. I trust it less than the power company...power company does not stop when it runs out of gas.
Thanks for the reply. Going to retest this morning and will post results.
JaysFan64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2019, 10:43 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 112
So, taking the advice provided here, I did some more testing and found something strange (I think) but don't know what it means.

First step was to build a new bonding plug to see if the one I bought was a dud. The good news is, mine worked the same way as the Southwire one so my money wasn't wasted. The bad news is that I could have made my own in the first place and saved $20.

I then used my multimeter and tested every step of the way...

- Without the bonding plug, voltage showed correctly at both the 20 and 30 amp receptacles. Added the twist lock adapter, no change, then added the 30m to 15f adapter, no change there either. My tester showed "open ground" in all 3 plugs.

- With the bonding plug,voltage showed correctly at the second 20 amp plug and with the tester plugged into that second receptacle, I was getting a "correct" reading.

- With the bonding plug in plus the twist lock and 15 amp adapter I get the HOT/NEU REF error at the 30 amp receptacle. And this is where I am confused... voltage read correctly when the prongs were inserted in the small and larger slots of the adapter. No voltage reading when testing small slot and ground but did get 120 when testing the larger slot and the ground which I understood was the neutral. Pic added for reference.

So does any of this help isolate the problem?

Thanks yet again for your patience and help.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	results.jpg
Views:	147
Size:	41.6 KB
ID:	199954  
JaysFan64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
generator

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:24 AM.