Generators for AC on 50 AMP Toy Hauler

[emm-dee]

A good way to tell if the Predators are correctly paralleled is to listen. If the both speed up under load then all is good. If only one speeds up then they are not paralleled. They should always be running the same speed which changes with load.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by Curion

at at 20 ft away from my rv with, ac tv on can barely hear it.
I hear stereos louder than that at camp grounds all the time

I find it interesting that YOU can barely hear it, when inside and the a/c and tv are on.
Yet say nothing about your neighbors and how it affects them. Especially if they are sitting outside. [emoji37]

[eye95]

Yeah, dB is a logarithmic scale, just like earthquake values on the Richter scale.

30 feet. I’ll check my gennies at that distance. Thanks.

emm-dee good tip there. Thanks to you too.

[Mikeytheb]

Originally Posted by emm-dee

Many newer water heaters do not have a switch on the heater. The switch for electric heat control is on a switch panel along with light switches, slide and awning, etc, switches, or on the LCI One Control if installed.

Mine is a 2020. The switch on the panel controls the water heater when on propane. Mine has a separate switch on the WH itself for electric.

[LynnATX]

This is all really great info. The generators ramp up/down together so sounds like the parallel connector is working as it should. I'm going to go out and hook them up and check the water heater switches. We have the indoor switch (like a light switch) and that's what I've been turning off. If I recall correctly, at walk through they did say there is a second switch outside too, so maybe it's still on. I'll also turn the refrigerator off at the breaker in case the switch is only a 12V disconnect and when I turn the generators on, it immediately switches to shore power and pulls when I think it isn't.

I'll report back with what I find out.

[LynnATX]

Mystery solved! It was the water heater. The switch was off on the wall panel, but the breaker was still on. I guess when you plug into shore power, it powers it up anyway. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I know we have a second switch on the water heater itself and I think that makes it run on propane only if we ever want to use it while running on generators, but even if not, I can live without hot water AND the AC running at the same time with no issues.

So here's where I landed with a fully functioning, quietly running (not in "max" load or whatever you call it when they get louder) generators.

• A/C on
• Microwave off
• Convt on (what is this?)
• GFI on
• Refer on (and turned on at wall switch)
• Main on
• Mystery breaker on (back AC maybe?)
• W/H off
• Fireplace off

Thanks for everyone's help on this. It was really making me crazy. And worried that the RV had some mystery electrical issue I was going to have to track down!

[formerFR]

these 'silent' power-hungry appliances are the typical 'issue' that many folks run into when they think they're simply plugging into a smaller power source and have 'everything off' - water heaters and battery chargers are two items that are 'always on' unless you intentionally turn them off or trip their breaker or have a way to turn them 'down', like our own battery charger, which is integrated into our Magnum inverter system - the 'Shore Max' setting can be turned to to a 5, 10, or 15amp level so that it can still provide 'some' charging, but doesn't use a lot of amps, while the other more important items are in play, such as the air conditioner.

[formerFR]

Originally Posted by LynnATX

... I guess when you plug into shore power, it powers it up anyway. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I know we have a second switch on the water heater itself and I think that makes it run on propane only if we ever want to use it while running on generators, but even if not, I can live without hot water AND the AC running at the same time with no issues. SOUNDS LIKE YOU SIMPLY SWITCHED OFF THE PROPANE, NOT THE ELECTRICAL ELEMENT, WHICH IS THE SWITCH ACTUALLY ON THE WATER HEATER.

So here's where I landed with a fully functioning, quietly running (not in "max" load or whatever you call it when they get louder) generators.

• A/C on
• Microwave off
• Convt on (what is this?) CONVERTER, PROVIDING 12V to your Lights/Fans, etc
• GFI on
• Refer on (and turned on at wall switch) WALL SWITCH FOR A FRIDGE??
• Main on
• Mystery breaker on (back AC maybe?)
• W/H off
• Fireplace off

!

yep, sounds like the Electric Water Heater was trying to power on and heat water ... which is a big draw of electrical power. Your CONVERTER, while charging the batteries, will do the same. If you trip the breaker to the CONVERTER, you will take the battery charging also out of the equation, but you may also loose lights and fans, etc.

[LynnATX]

Ah, the converter charges the batteries. I wasn't sure what that was. I didn't have any problems with that staying on and running the generators. . I've had the microwave off anyways because we don't use it. Adding the water heater to those that are turned off did the trick beautifully.

Yes we have a wall switch to turn the fridge off and on.

[rracer5]

Originally Posted by LynnATX

Mystery solved! It was the water heater. The switch was off on the wall panel, but the breaker was still on. I guess when you plug into shore power, it powers it up anyway. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I know we have a second switch on the water heater itself and I think that makes it run on propane only if we ever want to use it while running on generators, but even if not, I can live without hot water AND the AC running at the same time with no issues.

So here's where I landed with a fully functioning, quietly running (not in "max" load or whatever you call it when they get louder) generators.

• A/C on
  
• Microwave off
• Convt on (what is this?)
• GFI on
• Refer on (and turned on at wall switch)
• Main on
• Mystery breaker on (back AC maybe?)
  
• W/H off
  
• Fireplace off

Thanks for everyone's help on this. It was really making me crazy. And worried that the RV had some mystery electrical issue I was going to have to track down!

How many water heater "switches" do you have on the wall or in your "switch control center"? If there are 2 then, one is for the 12v/propane which you can leave on so that the propane will heat the water. The other is for the 120v side of the water heater & should turn the electric element off which is what you want when boondocking or on generator.

If you have an Atwood water heater, there is NO external switch on the outside. If it's a Dometic water heater, there IS an external switch which does the same thing as the switch (if you have one) inside on the wall or in your control center.
Atwoods 120v side can be turned off 2 ways. By the wall switch (if you have one) or the breaker in the power distribution center.
Dometics 120v side can be turned off 3 ways. By wall switch, breaker or external switch.

You can turn the breaker for the microwave back on so that you at least have the clock showing. It won't use any major power unless you try to use it.

Water heater breaker off is ok if you don't have a switch (as mentioned above) on the wall or control panel.

Fireplace can be turned back on as long as it's not being used (no power draw).

You don't mention what make/model of refrigerator you have so I can't guess what's happening there (like being able to manually switch the refrigerator to 12v/propane) & visa versa.

For example; when we ever lost power or had to use our generator, all I needed to do was make sure the refrigerator switched itself to 12v/propane mode (or I would do it manually if on generator) and switch the water heater off 120v heating element & onto 12v/propane mode. This practice "should" keep you happily boondocking.

What stumps me though is, 2 2000 watt generators working in parallel with an output of 28 amps (or so), should be able to run 1 A/C, water heater on 120v, refrigerator on 120v & microwave much the same as being plugged into a 30 amp shore power. My previous 2 TT's were only 30 amp units (1 A/C, no fireplace) and 30 amps would power my refrigerator, A/C, water heater & microwave. Anything more ie; toaster or hair dryer would throw the main breaker unless we turned off either the A/C or water heater (if on 120v).

[LynnATX]

We have a 2018 351THSS Puma Toyhauler.

I'll have to pull the refrigerator specs when I'm back at the trailer. It's an RV dual power though - AC and 12V. I looked at the specs at one time when I was doing AMP calculations and it wasn't pulling so much that I thought it was the culprit. We bought the RV used but I'm pretty sure it was the factory installed refrigerator. Of course the manual online doesn't tell me which model.

The water heater has one switch inside on the wall panel by the light switches, awning extension button etc. on the walk through, the guy showed us another switch inside the water heater near where you drain it. I'm pretty sure it's an Atwood.

We're haven't been running any other power hungry plug-in things, we've had too many issues trying to figure out what is going on with the generators. We generally use the plugs inside to charge laptops and phones, as we work from the road. Oh, we also use a WeBoost for cell service when needed.

We've yet to use AC with these generators except for testing, so all of these items were being used without it. The biggest amount of draw before turning off the water heaters off we were able to get was the plug in items above, an LED computer monitor, the WH, the WeBoost, the fridge and the furnace (with fan). We were able to make it work, but they were really struggling. We were at 9000 feet though, so that could have played into it. I can't remember if I turned off the water heater when we had those on but it's likely I did because I was turning off breakers at that point to get enough power.

[LynnATX]

Correction 2019 Palomino Puma.

[emm-dee]

The furnace fan is 12 volt so not much of factor relating to the original problem.

[LittleBill]

Even though you have gotten things to work fairly well, you still might want to consider to add Soft Starts to your A/Cs. I had Orvan install them on both of my unit's A/Cs and after I brought it home I tested it on a 2000 watt inverter generator.

A/C fired up an ran fine, barely pulling down the generator. Haven't run it since (put unit back in storage) and normally won't be running on a generator as we always look for full hookups when traveling. Had them installed for just in case.

Worth a look for the future.

[TowPro]

You need to figure out why the water heater switch font work. The one outside is like a safety switch that I would use after winterizing. It prevents hot water element from coming on after I winterize.

You also need to be able to control it from inside

[tomkatb]

Welcome to the wonderful world of complex rv’s.

In the old days it was pretty simple. The batteries ran the lights. You turned the stove on when mom complained about being cold. The outhouse was nearby. Simple.

Today it is not.

Saying you love displaced camping likely means step two is the 12 volt world, or mess. Even more complex!

The bad news is no operating manual for the rv. The good news is we have all been down the same path! If you can explain your problem well someone here can help.

Your problem was at its root a lack of information. No electrical monitoring! Or, flying while blind.

Boondockers rely on their battery monitors. Also their ems, gives line amperage necessary for 110. And generators.

We do not boondock as it is sort of rare in the Midwest. However we rely on our ems and battery monitor for glamping in parks with only 30 amp service most of the time! Cannot separate the DW from her coffee pot, convection oven, washer dryer and ac.

[Cypressloser]

Your 12V/120V fridge can be a power hog, on AC 120V it draws maybe 3 - 5 Amps but in battery mode (12V) it depletes the batteries in no time at all and then puts the charger in overdrive (bulk charge) when 120V becomes available and when at the same time the fridge turns on in AC 120V mode you can easily have a 10 Amp to 20 Amp draw on the generator, depending on the type of charger and type of batteries you have.

[LynnATX]

I have more information on the water heater and fridge!

The water heater is a Suburban sw12de, not an Atwood. I found the manual online, but this thread has a much better explanation than anything official I found.

https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...ore-36197.html

Apparently the switch outside is what makes it run off electric. To run off propane, that has to be turned off. The switch inside is for the 12V DSI (igniter) only. This explains why turning the inside switch off was having no impact on my power usage. As soon as I had shore power, the electric coils were coming on.

From the link above.

"Around the 2002 model year and later, the Suburban water heater came stock with a 1440 watt electric heating element....

What this means is it will take 12 amps to power it with 120 volts... in other words 40% of your available power is going to the electric heating element when using 30 amp RV's/power supplies"

Now, on to my fridge. Here is a pic of power usage from that. As mentioned before, I'm not having issues running fridge on generators while running other things. The switch on the wall next to it seems to be a battery disconnect, meaning that if I flip it off it's not pulling up for 12 V. I've had a tri-fuel dometic fridge in the past, and I really like this one better. It cools down much faster and the temperature inside is more even. Plus as an extra bonus, the freezer actually can make great ice pretty quickly!

[TERRY95747]

Originally Posted by LynnATX

We do a lot of boondocking/dry camping and are struggling with getting the right generator.

Usually we camp in cooler climates, but we want to be able to fire up the AC if needed.

Here’s the setup:
We have a Puma 351THSS and two Predators 2000s that run in parallel. The Puma is 50 AMP, the Predators have a 30 AMP plug when we run in parallel. We use a 50 to 30 dogbone to plug the generator into the shore power plug.

Here are the issues:
Even without AC, the generators struggle. We have to treat them with kid gloves just to run outlets and the WeBoost so we can work. Lots of the “overload” light coming on, but they will run and work. We are at a high elevation sometimes, so we thought that might be the problem. We did the get the furnace working with the lights and plugs a few times but we had to figure out a system to get that working (and futz with it without our coffee while it was 32º out).

We got the rig home though and decided to run some tests with them thinking that at sea level we wouldn’t have as many issues. The generators still struggle and they won’t run the front AC unit with nothing else on for more than a couple of minutes. The AC and fan will start (we have a hard(?) start capacitor on the AC).

Here’s what I’m looking for:
A recommendation for a generator that will run the following at the same time:
- lights and plugs
- 12V refrigerator
- 1 AC or the furnace

We like the smaller ones because we can move them around. We have the onboard fuel station and am willing to setup in the generator cubby, but then I’ll have to figure out how to run that system so it gets gas, etc. We’re also using that space currently for extra batteries for our solar. Bonus points if we don’t have to sell a kidney to afford the generator.

Thanks!

I have the Westinghouse 4500 Dual Fuel.
It is 90 pounds but that is probably the only negative.
You lose 10% when running on propane but that still is over 4000 watts.
It has remote start as well.
If you use the dog bone from 50/30 to your 30 amp plug you will only be running the one AC but all other items should run.
It may be your EMS that is holding you back?
Good luck!

[nayther]

I boondock most of the time, weekends racing in the desert. I ALWAYS turn my refer to just "gas" when not plugged in. The refer. needs 12 volts for controls and the light (not much power) and gas for cooling in that configuration. If you leave it in automatic it will switch to electric whenever you put power to the trailer. Just get in the habit of switching to gas whenever you disconnect and you won't have that problem.