Home Receptacle Questions

[IchLiebeBier]

Hi all,
We're working with a home builder to finally get out of our town home. There are a couple of electrical options that I could do, but I don't know if either will work to connect the trailer to the house. Please let me know if either one would work for that application. I don't have specific brands of the adapters offered. I'm hoping it's industry standard and someone will know if it will work.

Option 1 -- 10 Circuit Transfer Switch and 30A Exterior Mounted Receptacle for Homeowner Supplied Portable Generator (there's a 50 amp option too)

Would this supply power to the 30A plug when the generator is not hooked up and the switch is set to "city power on"? I would think it would not, since you could end up flipping power to it with the generator running, but I can't tell.

Option 2 -- Hot Tub 50a/240v GFI Protected Circuit with GFI Type Disconnect

I don't know if this would even have an outlet on it. If it did, would it be compatible with a 30 amp dog bone adapter?


I'll end up talking to the builders in more detail about it. But I don't know if any of the reps will truly know the answers.

Thanks.

[youroo]

There are codes for elect when building a New house,your desire is to have a 30A power supply for your RV. You do Not need a Transfer switch for this! Also forget about talking 250A Hot Tub and RV Hookup in the same sentence!! You need to stop talking to your Builder and talk to a REAL Electrician who REALLY knows how to wire a RV 30/50 supply outlet! Youroo!!

[Oaklevel]

If your camper is a 30A unit just remember that it is 30A 110V not 220V.

If you are talking about a whole house generator the transfer switch is to keep the generator from back feeding to the city power lines. Your Option 1: But it may not feed but 10 circuits (when city power is out) where city power will feed the whole house.

Like Youroo said talk to an electrician that knows what they are talking about.

[IchLiebeBier]

Thanks for the replies. I should have been clearer. I WANT a generator transfer switch, so that will go in regardless.

I just wasn't sure if it COULD pull double duty as a hot 30amp plug when switched to "city power on" setting.

[Oaklevel]

Sorry still not sure what you are meaning.

But with or without a transfer switch a 110V 30A RV outlet can be installed. But please make sure that the electrician is aware that you do not want a 220V outlet.

The transfer switch and the RV outlet are two different animals.

[Oaklevel]

Some good info here


https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...let-27223.html

[jimmarako]

I believe what the OP is asking is if he could use the 30 amp generator input "receptical" to the transfer switch as a 30 amp output when the house is running on normal city power.

I'm going to say no. The point of the transfer switch is to isolate the generator input from the City power. There should be no way to backfeed city power onto the generator input. Even if you could rig it up, I'd think it would be dangerous.

Your building a new house. I get wanting to keep things simple but the extra $50 for the proper outlet/box is a rounding error on the cost when all is said and done.

Jim M.

[IchLiebeBier]

Jimmarako
Correct. I figured it likely wouldn’t work. Just didn’t want to have two things doing the same thing if not necessary.

But why wouldn’t the 220v work if I use a dog bone. Isn’t that what you do at a campsite? Or is a campsite 50 amp 110?

30 is all I need now but if I ever move up to a fver Having 50 amp installed now would make sense.

[jimmarako]

Originally Posted by IchLiebeBier

But why wouldn’t the 220v work if I use a dog bone. Isn’t that what you do at a campsite? Or is a campsite 50 amp 110?

30 is all I need now but if I ever move up to a fver Having 50 amp installed now would make sense.

Are you referring to option 2? A 50 amp RV outlet is 50amp @ 240V. 99% of RV's do not have any type of 240V usage so they treat it as 50 *2 = 100 amp @ 120V Your typical 50A -> 30A dogbone would just grab one of the hotlegs and pass it to the 30 amp plug which as others have pointed out is ONLY a single 120V feed.

Can you use a hot tub box? Do you mean the outside boxes with the 50 amp GFCI breaker built in? I guess you could if you could fit or attach the proper 50 amp RV outlet. But as far as I know you do not need GFCI or local breakers on the pedestal end of an RV circuit.

I'd just have the builder run a 50amp circuit to some convenient outside wall near will you will park the RV and put a box and an outlet there. Get a 50->30 dogbone and use the main breaker in the trailer to disconnect as needed.

I'm sure others will have much more to say.

[chroniekon]

When your transfer switch is in the "city power on" mode, there is no power going to the generator input receptacle.

[formerFR]

I'm confused, too...

maybe give us a little more DETAIL of what you are referring to - as you've mentioned several things that don't normally have anything to do with RV electrical connection, such as a 50amp Hot Tub disconnect, or something - not sure what that's for or why you are considering something not related to an RV... clarify for us and we can help, but I'll give you some things to consider.

- A 30amp RV is simply a 'larger' regular household outlet. It is the same 120v power that your regular household outlets use, but has larger wires and different plug.

- a 50amp RV, though, makes use of a 240 volt power design, similar to a large appliance in your home, such as the oven/stove, which require much more power than the normal household outlet. 240v power uses an additional wire to double the amount of power.

Regardless of whether your RV is a 30amp type, or a 50amp 240v type, either has adapters available to 'adapt down' to lower amperage outlets, such as your home outlet, even one you already have on the outside of your house. These adapters handle the change of power and you don't have to do anything - it just works - but, you have 'less' amperage to use, meaning that you will have less things that you can do 'all at the same time'. (There's also an adapter to adapt a 30amp RV 'up' to use a 50amp RV outlet - which will give you the same power as a 30amp outlet)

When you are planning a new home, and you want to park your RV next to it, and have some power to the RV, just to keep the batteries charged, or to be able to use it for simple 'get ready to go camping' activities, or even as a 'second bedroom' if guest arrive, you can easily use your home's outlet. You might not be able to run the air conditioner(s), depending on the size of the home outlet's breaker, but you can do just about everything else.
If you decide to 'upgrade' and provide a 30amp outlet for the RV, and you're not going to be doing the electrical work yourself(it's actually fairly easy), make sure to tell your Electrician that you want a '30amp 120v RV Outlet'. This tells them EXACTLY what you are wanting, and how they should be wiring it.
If you decide to let your electrician go ahead an add a 50amp outlet, then make sure to tell them that you want a '50amp 240v RV Outlet'. Both of these are EASILY found ON THE SHELF in Lowes, Home Depot, or your everyday hardware stores. The outlet comes within an 'Outside' rated plug-box, just like you see at many campgrounds or rv parks.

You mentioned a 'generator' outlet, or something, but you'll have to clarify: Are you referring to you RV's generator, or a whole-house generator at your home?

[IchLiebeBier]

I think my questions were answered fully.

I plan on having a generator switch added so I can attach a generator if we lose power. This would be a stand alone generator, not related to the camper.

I also want an RV outlet added to the outside. I was just hoping the one would function as the other, so I'd have 2 things built into one. But I figured it wouldn't work. Just hoping it would.

I was hoping the hot tub wiring would work because the installation price seemed fair.

I'll talk to the builders about it more.

Thanks.

[WY Husker Fan]

30 amp for the generator connection will be an inlet, not an outlet so don’t even try to go there.

The 50 amp GFCI for the hot tub would work if you don’t install a hot tub and they install a 4 wire branch circuit. You could just have a 50 amp NEMA 14-50R receptacle installed and supplied by the “Hot Tub” circuit. The 2020 NEC requires the 50amp receptacle installed outdoors to be GFCI protected anyway. Same for a 30 amp 120v RV receptacle - required to be GFCI protected by 2020 NEC. The NEMA 14-50 is wired EXACTLY like a range receptacle and is 120/240 volt. Use of a dogbone or adapter to go from the 50 amp to 30 amp can be done.

[jimmarako]

Originally Posted by WY Husker Fan

3 The 2020 NEC requires the 50amp receptacle installed outdoors to be GFCI protected anyway. Same for a 30 amp 120v RV receptacle - required to be GFCI protected by 2020 NEC. .

I am not an electrician. There was a recent thread, like last week, where some one else pointed out that the 2020 NEC does not require GFCI on RV circuits. He specifically said they are considered "feeder" circuits and not "branch" circuits.

I don't know who is correct but I would be interested in this just in case I ever need to add such a circuit. I can't say I've ever seen an RV feed protected, but then maybe it is new for 2020.

Thanks
Jim M.

[jimmarako]

This was over on the general trailer and 5th wheel forumn. I guess had I read it completely at the time I would have known the answer is no GFCI for RV outlets.

I don't know how to add a link to a specific thread so this is the best I got.

Jim M.

Apparently, new 2020 code says that RV pedestals, 30Amp and 50Amp outlets are specifically excluded from GFCI requirements since they are feeder circuits, not branch circuits. However, the 20 amp outlet must still have GFCI.

https://www.go-usg.com/t-publication-022019.aspx

[SailorSam20500]

Originally Posted by IchLiebeBier

Option 2 -- Hot Tub 50a/240v GFI Protected Circuit with GFI Type Disconnect

I don't know if this would even have an outlet on it. If it did, would it be compatible with a 30 amp dog bone adapter?

A quick web search found this as the hot tub disconnect:

There is no plug on this. Buying it would get you the wiring from your central power panel.
You would be able to replace this with the correct remote panel is available at many stores. Here's the most flexible version, it has 20,30, and 50 amp outlets. So you would be covered even if you upgrade your trailer.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-RV-Pa...2SSP/308853200



You may be able to talk your builder into the RV panel, but if they agree, keep an eye on it, it wouldn't surprise me that the electrician would revert to the hot tub disconnect. Since the panel itself is pre-wired with the correct outlets, you wouldn't need to worry about the electrician wiring the 30 amp outlet incorectly.

[IchLiebeBier]

Thanks SailorSam. I'll keep that in mind. Probably the perfect solution for me.

[NXR]

In our jurisdiction a 240 VAC hot tub must be hard-wired and on a GFCI, plugs are not allowed. Every 240 VAC hot tub we looked at required hard-wiring anyways. No other outlets are allowed off of the hot tub box, not even a 120 VAC outlet.

You also do not want your RV plugged into a GFCI-protected breaker.

Ray

[formerFR]

...

[NXR]

I bought a similar RV box from Home Depot but without the 30-amp outlet. It's $94 so a lot cheaper than the $163 one. I'll use a dogbone if I ever need 30 amp service.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-RV-Pa...02SS/203393687

The other thing to remember is that if you do install the 50 amp, 30 amp, and 120 VAC 20 amp outlet box your local inspector may require you to wire it that way. That would require much heavier wire and a bigger breaker. Fortunately our local inspector understood RVs and allowed me to use a 60-amp breaker and 6-gauge wire for the two outlets. He knew we would never be pulling the full plug capacity.

The only slight drawback with those boxes is that the door will not fully close if your power cord plug has a bigger pull handle like mine does. It closes far enough to keep direct rainfall out of it, though.

Ray