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Old 05-16-2022, 04:22 PM   #1
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Hot Neutral Rev with open ground

Bringing to life an old problem as I am having the same issue. I have a MaXpeedingRods MXR3300 Gen that has a Pair of 120v 20a plugs and a 120v 30a RV style plug. As expected when I plug in my coach 30a to 50a adpt I get the open ground. I bought the southwire neutral-ground bonding plug to take care of that. When I plug the N-Gbp in and test the 20a I get correct lights. When I place a 30a to 20a adpt in the 30 plug and test I get Hot/Neu Rev. Of course the EMS is not letting the power through as it says its reversed. I read through an old post and wonder what the solution is?? Any help is greatly appreciated.

Here is what support told me to do:
Hello my friend, we totally know your concern, a little modify will solve this problem, considering you don;t want to modify the plug, could you pls try to modify our generator panel
Here is a reference pic for you to check



You could kindly connect a earth wire(the circled yellow one is the one you need to connect, it's an earth wire) from the neutral wire(blue one)

Could you pls try it?

And pls note do not connect with the red one live wire, which will cause damage with the machine you want to connect with our generator
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Old 05-16-2022, 05:31 PM   #2
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I don't think their fix is going to solve the reverse problem. But it might end the need to have any NGB plugs again, on either the 20 or 30 side. Or you make a 30a NGP version.

I'm confused when you say you plug a 30 to 20 adapter in the 30 plug on the generator. Do you do that just to use your plug tester? Maybe just that adapter is backwards.
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Old 05-16-2022, 05:53 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by mac1_131 View Post
I don't think their fix is going to solve the reverse problem. But it might end the need to have any NGB plugs again, on either the 20 or 30 side. Or you make a 30a NGP version.

I'm confused when you say you plug a 30 to 20 adapter in the 30 plug on the generator. Do you do that just to use your plug tester? Maybe just that adapter is backwards.
Yes I did that just to be able to test the 30a side with my 20a tester.
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Old 05-16-2022, 05:55 PM   #4
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Ok then I would try their fix and plug your 30a ems directly in to generator and it might be ok.
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Old 05-17-2022, 11:36 AM   #5
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Personally, I would get a real multi (volt) meter and check things out for real.
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Old 05-17-2022, 06:23 PM   #6
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So the 30 amp receptacle on the generator to a 50 amp adapter is fine, but the 30 amp receptacle to a 20 amp adapter gives you the faults?
Have you properly measured the voltages before and after installing the neutral bonding plug? With a decent meter it shouldn't take long to get it metered out and see what is happening. Even a continuity check, with no power should help shed some light on it too.
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Old 05-19-2022, 01:55 AM   #7
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Personally, I would get a real multi (volt) meter and check things out for real.
I have, this was to confirm.
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Old 05-19-2022, 02:00 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by glen1971 View Post
So the 30 amp receptacle on the generator to a 50 amp adapter is fine, but the 30 amp receptacle to a 20 amp adapter gives you the faults?
Have you properly measured the voltages before and after installing the neutral bonding plug? With a decent meter it shouldn't take long to get it metered out and see what is happening. Even a continuity check, with no power should help shed some light on it too.
No 30 to 50 (my coach) is giving the Polarity reversed also and not letting power through. I tested the 50 adapter and it is right so just to make sure I tested the 30a straight and then the 30 down to 20a.

When I plug in the Neutral to ground to get rid of the open ground the 30 goes Reversed.
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Old 05-19-2022, 07:51 AM   #9
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First, your EMS is checking the voltage between a hot leg and ground and does not see any voltage. That is because the generator is not bonded to ground and the voltage is only generated between the hot and the neutral on the 30 amp connector. Connecting the neutral to the ground as the manufacturer advised will then eliminate the open ground since 120 volts will be measured between the hot and ground. That problem fixed...now the reverse polarity. Neutral to ground bonding is the responsibility of the power source and occurs in or upstream of the RV pedestal in a park on on the generator itself. With the neutral to ground in place there cannot be reverse polarity since the neutral is at ground. The EMS seems to be measuring 120 volts between the neutral and ground, which we know cannot be the case at the generator. The only thing that could generate this is a neutral to hot switch somewhere between the socket and the RV.

I agree with others, a multimeter with the RV disconnected should either show up the problem or point to a bad EMS.
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Old 05-19-2022, 08:45 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by ScottBrownstein View Post
First, your EMS is checking the voltage between a hot leg and ground and does not see any voltage. That is because the generator is not bonded to ground and the voltage is only generated between the hot and the neutral on the 30 amp connector. Connecting the neutral to the ground as the manufacturer advised will then eliminate the open ground since 120 volts will be measured between the hot and ground. That problem fixed...now the reverse polarity. Neutral to ground bonding is the responsibility of the power source and occurs in or upstream of the RV pedestal in a park on on the generator itself. With the neutral to ground in place there cannot be reverse polarity since the neutral is at ground. The EMS seems to be measuring 120 volts between the neutral and ground, which we know cannot be the case at the generator. The only thing that could generate this is a neutral to hot switch somewhere between the socket and the RV.

I agree with others, a multimeter with the RV disconnected should either show up the problem or point to a bad EMS.
What if the 30 amp receptacle on the generator is wired backwards with the hot wire and neutral reversed? Which is what you would be checking with the voltmeter. Is the correct slot on the 30amp receptacle actually hot.
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Old 05-19-2022, 09:07 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
What if the 30 amp receptacle on the generator is wired backwards with the hot wire and neutral reversed? Which is what you would be checking with the voltmeter. Is the correct slot on the 30amp receptacle actually hot.
Not knowing anything about the inner workings of the generator itself lets just imagine that both hot and neutral are isolated from any ground, which appears to be the case. If that is true, when the neutral wire is bonded to ground it "by definition" becomes a neutral and the other lead becomes the hot.

However the manufacturer warns And pls note do not connect with the red one live wire, which will cause damage with the machine you want to connect with our generator i.e. reverse polarity!

The EMS is measuring the voltage between the neutral and ground and if it sees voltage there, assumes that the neutral is not a neutral at all since it has 120 volts above ground. It knows that the voltage between the hot and neutral is 120 and wants the hot 120 above ground and the neutral within a few volts of ground.

Either way, a multimeter will point all this out!
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Old 05-20-2022, 07:48 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
What if the 30 amp receptacle on the generator is wired backwards with the hot wire and neutral reversed? Which is what you would be checking with the voltmeter. Is the correct slot on the 30amp receptacle actually hot.
This is my thought.
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Old 05-22-2022, 02:53 PM   #13
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OK I got the Genny out again and measured the plugs with My multimeter. Here is what I got.

Top two are with no N-G plugged in. Tester shows open ground.

Bottom two are with the N-G plugged into the 20a side. No open ground but hot and Neutral show reversed.
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Old 05-22-2022, 03:36 PM   #14
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Sure looks like the 30 amp receptacle is simply wired backwards with the neutral and the hot on the wrong sides.
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Old 05-23-2022, 08:45 AM   #15
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Yeah, 30A looks wrong.

https://www.rvtravel.com/rv-electric...p-home-outlet/
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Old 05-23-2022, 10:32 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Peter0525 View Post
This is my thought.
Where is the neutral bonding wire? If off, that explains the open ground. Could be a mis-wired plug but strange for a manufactured product, although they have a lot of flexibility with an unbonded "neutral." If it persists, easy to re-wire the plug.
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Old 05-23-2022, 12:02 PM   #17
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Where is the neutral bonding wire? If off, that explains the open ground. Could be a mis-wired plug but strange for a manufactured product, although they have a lot of flexibility with an unbonded "neutral." If it persists, easy to re-wire the plug.
The plug is from Southwire and is sealed. It is correct for the 20a when I plug it in. It shows grounded and no Hot Neutral reverse. The 30a however when the plug is in the 20a shows rev.
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Old 05-23-2022, 12:11 PM   #18
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The plug is from Southwire and is sealed. It is correct for the 20a when I plug it in. It shows grounded and no Hot Neutral reverse. The 30a however when the plug is in the 20a shows rev.
It looked to me like the 30 amp receptacle had spade connectors on the rear and it would be a matter of pulling off the neutral and hot wires and plugging them back in on opposite sides. The manufacturing process for the generator is probably on an assembly line and there is a worker that is allotted 15 seconds per generator to plug in the wires onto the back of the 30 amp receptacle.
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Old 05-23-2022, 01:08 PM   #19
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First a generator will always show a open ground with no N-G plug inserted. So this is normal operation and is to be expected. That is the basic reason for the N-G plug, it bonds the neutral to the ground wire so that the ground is not floating. I agree with others the 30 amp plug is wired incorrectly, the hot and the neutral are reversed.
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Old 05-23-2022, 02:12 PM   #20
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First a generator will always show a open ground with no N-G plug inserted. So this is normal operation and is to be expected. That is the basic reason for the N-G plug, it bonds the neutral to the ground wire so that the ground is not floating. I agree with others the 30 amp plug is wired incorrectly, the hot and the neutral are reversed.
I do understand the need for the N-G plug and everything you said. My question was why would the 30 show rev when that is plugged in.

I finally just opened up the front and swapped the hot and Neutral and it worked fine. The comment that the assembly must have reversed the wires when installing I seriously doubt. When I went to switch them it was almost impossible to change as the wires are JUST long enough to get to the respected terminals. changing them made me bed a few things to get a little extra reach.

In the long run it is all done and will work but it is weird that a Gen that is set up for RV use would have this issue. There are not a lot of videos on the Tubes about this genny but they seemed to have no issue?
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