Intermittent no 12 volt power?

[Randy P]

Hello everyone. I just bought a used 2011 Sunseeker 3120. I took her on a short 2 day camping trip to check everything out. I had several problems. 1. I had 12 volt power at home, awning, slides etc worked fine on 12 volt. When I arrived at the camp I had no 12 volt power even though batteries were fully charged. Battery switch eas on. I checke fuses and breakers at box. Nothing blown. When I hooked up to shore power no problem. When I disconnected shore power, again no 12 v. When I got back home, the 12 v power was back on again. I'm Stumped. 2. No water pressure at shower, it just dribbles out. Other faucets have all kinds of pressure. 3. When I took a shower, I noticed water had leaked under the wall onto the kitchen floor. This purchase isn't sounding good. Any ideas on my issues. Thanks a bunch! Randy

[RamblerGuy]

With reference to the water pressure in the shower, could you screw off the shower head and turn on the water? The shower head may be plugged. If there's no difference without the head, remove the hose from the faucet. The hose should have a slide valve that allows you to shut off the water flow without having to reset the hot and cold water. The valve or hose may have failed or plugged. There could have been some trash in the water line from construction. I wouldn't think that both the hot and cold faucets would have failed or plugged, but I guess that's possible, too. If nothing else helps, remove the faucet and pipe the hot and cold to a bucket, then turn on the water pump to find out if you have pressure coming into the shower. Use the pump instead of the city water connection in case you have to turn it off quickly. I learned that the hard way.

I had a leak under the shower in our Sunseeker 3100. I removed the round access plate (I think it's called a scuttle hole) and found that a threaded fitting in the drain wasn't quite tight enough. I was able to tighten it and that stopped the leak. I hope your problem is that simple.

[Herk7769]

Sounds like a loose or corroded wire in the battery control center (BCC).
Here is a wiring diagram of a Georgetown BCC that might be helpful looking for the wire terminal causing your problem. While not exact, it should be close.

[RamblerGuy]

Our 2011 Sunseeker 3100 is in storage until next week so I can't check it, but I as I recall the BCC does not connect the coach batteries to the coach 12 volt system. It connects the coach 12 volt system to the chassis 12 volt system. The battery disconnect switch connects the coach batteries to the coach.

There is power to the 12 volt system with the battery disconnect off but with the shore line plugged into 110 volts.

My guess is that there is a bad connection somewhere between the batteries and the coach power panel. Try turning the battery disconnect on with the shore line unplugged and use a voltmeter to check for 12 volts at every connection from the batteries to the coach power panel. On ours, the power panel is split with some 120 volt breakers and some 12 volt fuses. I can’t remember for sure, but I vaguely remember a 50 amp 12 volt circuit breaker on the BCC printed circuit board that protects the circuit between the coach batteries and the power panel. It could be bad or have a bad connection. It’s possible that the disconnect switch itself is bad.

You have probably already found them, but the circuit board with the BCC is behind a panel on the left side of the steps. On our 3100 the power panel is on the side of the bed sideboard.

I have some information at home and will post it tonight.

[Randy P]

Water leak: I checked under the shower through the access plate. Its all dry underneath. I did notice the water had leaked at the back corner of the shower to the floor just next to the shower and extending to the kitchen floor. I also noticed part of the caulking is missing and separates from the shower wall at this corner. I'll try new caulking.

Intermittent 12 volt power loss: I opened the access panel next to the steps. Everything looks new, all connections tight. Is this the BCC? There is something that looks like a solenoid here, could this be an issue? I have what i call a circuit breaker box attached to the bed base, no blown fuses or tripped breakers. 12 volt power is working everywhere now. I hate these intermittent issues. I probably won't have an issue until I go dry camping.

Low water pressure at shower: I disconnected the shower head and turned on the water. Water flows, but very low pressure. I may try removing the water faucet/controller and see if I find anything there.

Thanks for the input, I appreciate your help. This is our first rv and very much a rookie. Thanks again, Randy

[RamblerGuy]

Sorry for not posting last night but we have visitors at home. I’m doing this at work during lunch. This is long winded but I am trying to describe the system to help you find your problem.

Yes, you found the BCC. The silver-colored solenoid is the relay that connects the coach and chassis batteries. This is not related to having no 12 volts when the shore line is unplugged.

After looking at my information, I need to correct my first statement of yesterday. The Battery Control Center does play a part in the coach battery-to-coach connection. It has a breaker (may be up to 50 amp rating) that connects the batteries to the convertor, and thereby to the main power distribution panel (the combined 120 and 12 volt panel). It has fuses for the slides, awning, and the BIRD (Bi-directional Isolation Relay Delay), which controls the relay that connects the coach batteries to the chassis battery. All other fuses are in the power distribution panel. The BCC also has the BIRD and its relay.

In my photo of the BCC, you can see a clear plastic film on the board. This film mimics the printed circuit board’s circuitry, so you can easily follow the path of the 12 volt current. The 50 amp (?) breaker connects the convertor to the coach battery. If the breaker is open or bad, or the cable between the BCC and the convertor is bad, but everything else is okay, you would have 12 volt power to the awning and slide from the batteries but not from the convertor. In this case, everything else would work when the shore line is connected because the convertor supplies the power panel directly.

A note on 12 volt breakers: some reset automatically and some have a popup reset button. I don’t know which is on the BCC. Feel around the back of the breaker for a reset button.

As I understand it, your symptoms are that everything including the awning and slide works on shore power but not on batteries (which you say are fully charged). This points to bad positive or ground battery cables or cable connections, or a bad battery disconnect switch.

With the shore line unplugged, check for voltage at all the connections. A quick check would be to look at the CO/LP detector with the battery disconnect switched on. Its indicator light should be on, or if you just switched the disconnect on, the light will be flashing as it goes through its startup. If it does not have a light on, it’s getting no power. Starting at the batteries, check for a difference between each connection post or lug and the cable or terminal itself. I have encountered connections and switched that would read okay on a voltmeter with no load and them, but were corroded and would not carry significant current. With a load, the voltage on the load side would drop. Put a load on the 12 volt system when you check it. Turn on all the coach lights, bathroom fan and anything else that is 12 volts. Check from the tops of battery posts to the sides of the cable clamps. I have encountered post connections that look good but have a film between post and the clamp. If you have voltage, continue checking this way all the way to the power distribution panel. Clean your battery post connections. When checking for voltage, always connect your voltmeter to a known good ground, preferably to the coach battery negative post using a long wire if needed. Use a nut to hold a wire on the threaded negative terminal.

One more place to look: There should be a fuse or breaker in the power distribution panel for 12 volt input from the battery and/or convertor. I can’t remember. I think there is one cable from the convertor to the power distribution panel, and one from that panel to the BCC, so there may be a breaker or fuse between the panel and the cable that goes to the BCC.

A word of caution: Remove your watch and any jewelry before working around 12 volts. Getting your metal watch band across a 12 volt battery will make your Rolex have a bad day.

[bubbles]

I would assume that you have reset your battery disconnect switch several times to check the storage disconnect relay.

[Randy P]

Wow! Great article RamblerGuy. I'll definitely be checking things out this weekend according to your suggestions. I'm printing your article up to keep in my rig. Thanks again

[bubbles]

Just something to ponder. I believe your awning, like mine, is fused directly to the battery and therefore no power changes will affect it. With that in mind, it would appear your battery connections are definately suspect.

[RamblerGuy]

Originally Posted by bubbles

I would assume that you have reset your battery disconnect switch several times to check the storage disconnect relay.

My experience is limited to our 2011 Sunseeker model 3100, our first motorhome, so don't take this as absolute.

To the best of my knowledge, the Sunseeker Class C's don't have disconnect relays. They have an on/off switch at the door (just above the battery control center) that disconnects the coach batteries from the coach 12 volt system. If they have a disconnect relay, I haven't seen it.

I don't know for sure, but I guess that the Forester and Lexington are the same.

Following this forum I have read threads that show that tag-along travel trailers, fifth wheel trailers, Class A's and Class C's have differences in their electrical designs.

[MotocrossCamper]

Just had this problem with our Sunseeker. The thread is under the Sunseeker forum. First check all your battery connections and if that doesn't solve it climb under your RV and start following wires. I had to do it at 11 at night with a flashlight but I found a Butt splice that had come loose and it caused us to loose all 12 volt power.

[bubbles]

Just curious. So Rambler Guy, you are saying that your battery storage disconnect switch is a toggle on/off switch and not a center detent momentary on/off switch?

[RamblerGuy]

Originally Posted by bubbles

Just curious. So Rambler Guy, you are saying that your battery storage disconnect switch is a toggle on/off switch and not a center detent momentary on/off switch?

It is a rotary selector switch, not a momentary switch. I can't be sure of the model number but it looks like this one:

e-Series On Off Battery Switch - Blue Sea Systems

[RamblerGuy]

I forgot to mention that there's a schematic of the BCC pasted on the inside of the access panel. I don't remember if it shows everything there or just the printed circuit board and its fuse identifications.

[RamblerGuy]

Originally Posted by RamblerGuy

It is a rotary selector switch, not a momentary switch. I can't be sure of the model number but it looks like this one:

e-Series On Off Battery Switch - Blue Sea Systems

I'll add to my previous post. The coach batteries are under the entry steps on Sunseekers and Foresters, and maybe also on Lexingtons. It's easy and simple to run a cable from the battteries to the manual switch. On Class A's and trailers, batteries are remote from the entry door, so a switch controlling a solenoid may make more sense than running cables.

A short cable run with a manual switch is nice and simple. The switch is marine rated for salt water service and seems to be heavy duty. Not having a solenoid eliminates a possible failure point. I like simple and stout.

[Randy P]

Thanks for the help everyone. I've printed up all your comments to keep in my motor home or rig as most folks seem to say. First I checked the battery cables only to find they were very corroded and one was loose. Wing nuts secure the cables. I've cleaned them, and hopefully this corrects my 12 volt issue. Here's a pic.

Oh, one more question. My rig only has music from the cab. No entertainment system. Will the battery from my engine run down if I'm playing the radio and im connected to shore power? Thanks again for the help.

[RamblerGuy]

If you are plugged in to shore power, the Battery Control Center will connect the coach 12 volt system to the chassis 12 volt battery once the convertor brings the coach system's voltage up enough. It will prevent your radio from draining the chassis battery.

Here’s a link to the manual on the BIRD, which is part or the BCC, which control the solenoid that connects the battery system.

http://www.dodgenmobiletech.com/sites/default/files/Intellitec%20Bi-Directional%20Isolator%20Relay%20Delay.pdf