Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-27-2020, 11:31 AM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 18
Inverter Installation

Happy Monday,

I'm more than happy about this community and found a lot of helpful advise for the other topics I posted questions about. I did quite a bit of research before I write this post and most of my questions got answered already.

The goal is to have one (or two) dedicated outlets somewhere in the camper to charge our notebooks occasionally or the camera battery. In the same go I will install a Battleborn LiFePO4 battery.

To make it easier I thought I install the inverter next to the water heater in my 22MKSE. In theory the BB battery would still fit next to it too - I'm indecisive if I should move it in or leave it outside on the tongue.

Currently my setup thoughts are:

- Renogy 700W or 1000W 12V Pure Sine Wave Inverter
- 150A ANL Fuse with box
- 4 AWG wire (~3 ft)
- AiLi Voltmeter up to 350A

Here are my questions:

1) All of the inverters seem to have the outlets directly on the inverter and no option to hardwire outlets to the inverter. I would like to have the outlet somewhere around the night stand (easy to install). What's the desired way to accomplish that? Buying an outlet, cutting off one side of a cable and wire it to the outlet then plug the other side to the inverter? I assume just installing the inverter into the closet is NOT a good option as if the closet is full there's most likely a heat issue.

2) I want a power-off switch for the inverter. Do I have to go with an inverter which comes with this functionality or can I just install a 12V switch? If so do you have recommendations for the switch and inverter?

3) Forst River is using some plastic cable throughs (~3-4 inches long) for their propane pipes and cables to get them through the floor (see picture). I tried to find these on Amazon, eTrailer or somewhere else but couldn't. Do you have a name / source of these? I would like to get these for the two new cables I'm planning to pull through the floor.

I'm more than happy for a inverter recommendation in the ~$160 price range or lower - the Renogy reviews are not the best .but I didn't find another pure sine with remote capability...

Thanks for helping out.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1376.jpg
Views:	29
Size:	368.7 KB
ID:	234973  
marcap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2020, 03:41 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Hclarkx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Granite Bay, Ca
Posts: 475
My initial thoughts .........

A 1000W inverter, if you use all or most of its capability, will draw up close to 90 amps including inverter losses. Be sure the BB LFP BMS is good for that level of current. I've never looked close at BB.

The National Electrical Code likely still does not allow an extension type cord terminating in an outlet box. I don't know why but it used to be in the code. But, I'd do it. Unless it's clearly easier to chain the two outlets, I'd put each one on it's own cord. Gauge 14 would be okay but I prefer 12.

Does the inverter you are looking at have a GFI? Mine does but it's not Renogy (it's Xantrex). If the inverter does not have GFI, be sure the outlets are GFI (the first one only if you chain them).

The BB will have plenty of voltage so can tolerate some voltage drop between the battery and the inverter, but 3' of #4 is fine in any event so long as the #4 is copper.

Rather than use a fuse, I'd suggest a surface-mount circuit breaker. It will serve as the inverter disconnect.

I'm not sure what voltmeter you are describing, but it's best to have a state of charge device. The Victron BMV-712 is the deluxe route but there are less costly options including a BMV-712 work-a-like that is a small fraction of the cost. If you won't normally discharge the battery deeply, then you can watch voltage. 13.3V is full, 13.2V is ballpark 50%, and 13.1V is getting down there. These are with the battery sitting with little or no load on it. If the voltmeter doesn't read 13.3V when the battery is fully charged, a better voltmeter is needed.

I'm very happy with my "1000" Xantrex pure sign inverter. It's actual continuous rating is just 900W but it will do 1200 or 1300W for a few minutes (I've forgotten the details on it). I've had the inverter fan run only once ..... when my inverter microwave was drawing over 800W for 15 minutes. The inverter no-load current is less than 0.5 amps though I still turn it off when it won't be needed for a couple of hours. It's pure sine so can run anything (I have a few devices that overheat or quit if not on a pure sine inverter including a camera battery charger). The Xantrex is well over $160 though.

I can't help with the floor penetrations. My 2015 forest river had all floor penetrations 3" diameter with only a couple of them foamed. Most were an open door for mice it turned out. I've since foamed all of them.
__________________
2020 GMC Denali 2500HD Crew 4X4 Gas 6.6L
2015 8280WS Rockwood Ultra Lite
1000W solar 322AH LFP battery 900W PSW inverter
Nova Kool RFU9000 coming in August.
Hclarkx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2020, 08:19 PM   #3
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 18
Thanks for your thoughts/comments!

Quote:
The National Electrical Code likely still does not allow an extension type cord terminating in an outlet box.
Do you know what would be the correct way of wiring this according to code? An extension cord can't be the only way which is up to code ...

The GFCI hint is a good one - the inverter has one built in already though.

The meter should be able to calculate the state of the battery. It's a knock off of the Victron and I thought I give it a shot. Here's the reference: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The floor penetrations in my 2018 forest river are only as large as the cable/pipe going through - I guess they improved that. But once I'm done I wanted to foam them all just to be safe. I would need to create one or two new ones for the cables though...
marcap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2020, 09:18 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Posts: 7,050
I selected an inverter that has a remote on/off panel and a hardwired option for the 120VAC output. Ideally, I would have run it to a transfer switch but I just ran it to an exterior 20A 120VAC waterproof outlet and I run my shore power cord to it. I can't run anything off AC while I am travelling which isn't a big deal to me. I just make sure the converter is turned off.

I have a 2000W inverter. I wanted to run my microwave oven. A 1000W would likely not run it.

BTW, that cheap monitor does not have a Peukerts constant setting so if you are running heavy loads which are more than the 20 hour rating of the battery, your SOC% can be WAY off.

__________________
2017 Coachmen 233RBS
2018 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5 Eco
"Common sense is not very common"
babock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2020, 09:48 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 1,480
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcap View Post
... The goal is to have one (or two) dedicated outlets somewhere in the camper to charge our notebooks occasionally ...
Wouldn't a 12V power adapter for the notebooks be more efficient? If they can accept a USB-C power adapter, they're pretty much universal.

E.g., https://www.amazon.com/Pwr-USB-C-Car.../dp/B004G6W8U4

I picked that one at random and do not suggest it, in particular, is of good quality. I'm sure some are.
__________________
- 2016 Ford F-150 SCrew Lariat 4x2 3.5L Ecoboost, 1700# payload
- 2020 Rockwood 2507S
chriscowles is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2020, 10:54 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Posts: 7,050
Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscowles View Post
Wouldn't a 12V power adapter for the notebooks be more efficient? If they can accept a USB-C power adapter, they're pretty much universal.

E.g., https://www.amazon.com/Pwr-USB-C-Car.../dp/B004G6W8U4

I picked that one at random and do not suggest it, in particular, is of good quality. I'm sure some are.
Assuming an inverter is 85% efficient and this was 95% efficient, you would save around 10W or so over using an inverter. Is that enough savings to be worried about would be my question.
__________________
2017 Coachmen 233RBS
2018 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5 Eco
"Common sense is not very common"
babock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2020, 11:00 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 1,480
The stated goal is "... to charge our notebooks occasionally or the camera battery." Why go through all that trouble and expense when a 12V charger will do?
__________________
- 2016 Ford F-150 SCrew Lariat 4x2 3.5L Ecoboost, 1700# payload
- 2020 Rockwood 2507S
chriscowles is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 01:54 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Hclarkx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Granite Bay, Ca
Posts: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscowles View Post
The stated goal is "... to charge our notebooks occasionally or the camera battery." Why go through all that trouble and expense when a 12V charger will do?
I put my Canon battery charger on a little 150W modified sine inverter that plugged into a 12V outlet .... it got hot and got that phenolic smell. It still worked, but it was a close call. I don't know if anybody makes a 12V charger for Canon camera lithium batteries. I'll have to look, I could use one (though there are lots of different canon camera batteries ... unfortunately).
__________________
2020 GMC Denali 2500HD Crew 4X4 Gas 6.6L
2015 8280WS Rockwood Ultra Lite
1000W solar 322AH LFP battery 900W PSW inverter
Nova Kool RFU9000 coming in August.
Hclarkx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 01:59 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Hclarkx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Granite Bay, Ca
Posts: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcap View Post
Thanks for your thoughts/comments!



Do you know what would be the correct way of wiring this according to code? An extension cord can't be the only way which is up to code ...

The GFCI hint is a good one - the inverter has one built in already though.

The meter should be able to calculate the state of the battery. It's a knock off of the Victron and I thought I give it a shot. Here's the reference: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The floor penetrations in my 2018 forest river are only as large as the cable/pipe going through - I guess they improved that. But once I'm done I wanted to foam them all just to be safe. I would need to create one or two new ones for the cables though...

The NEC would have you run romex (protected) from the inverter to the outlets. There probably are inverters that have a romex connector. I thought about making a plate for mine that would cover the duplex receptacle cut-out. But, I wanted to keep the GFI and use the outlet locally.

Again, I wouldn't get too excited about the code ... just wanted you to be aware of it.

I'm still using a #12 extension cord plugged into the inverter GFI duplex receptacle with a U-ground to 30A twist-lock at the other end ...
__________________
2020 GMC Denali 2500HD Crew 4X4 Gas 6.6L
2015 8280WS Rockwood Ultra Lite
1000W solar 322AH LFP battery 900W PSW inverter
Nova Kool RFU9000 coming in August.
Hclarkx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 09:04 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 1,480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hclarkx View Post
I put my Canon battery charger on a little 150W modified sine inverter that plugged into a 12V outlet .... it got hot and got that phenolic smell. It still worked, but it was a close call. I don't know if anybody makes a 12V charger for Canon camera lithium batteries. I'll have to look, I could use one (though there are lots of different canon camera batteries ... unfortunately).
The 12V charger I refer to is not an inverter. It's a direct DC-to-DC adapter cable for laptops.

For $50 on Amazon, this project could be done with zero labor. Inverters have advantages other than charging laptops, but that was the OPs stated goal, and the only stated goal.
__________________
- 2016 Ford F-150 SCrew Lariat 4x2 3.5L Ecoboost, 1700# payload
- 2020 Rockwood 2507S
chriscowles is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 09:07 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Posts: 7,050
Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscowles View Post
The 12V charger I refer to is not an inverter. It's a direct DC-to-DC adapter cable for laptops.

For $50 on Amazon, this project could be done with zero labor. Inverters have advantages other than charging laptops, but that was the OPs stated goal, and the only stated goal.
If that's the only thing that would need to be run on an inverter, that would be the best option. If there are other things that also need AC as well then it might not.
__________________
2017 Coachmen 233RBS
2018 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5 Eco
"Common sense is not very common"
babock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 09:10 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 1,480
Quote:
Originally Posted by babock View Post
... If there are other things that also need AC as well then it might not.
I agree but, as stated in the OP, "... The goal is to have one (or two) dedicated outlets somewhere in the camper to charge our notebooks occasionally or the camera battery. ..."
__________________
- 2016 Ford F-150 SCrew Lariat 4x2 3.5L Ecoboost, 1700# payload
- 2020 Rockwood 2507S
chriscowles is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 09:37 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Posts: 7,050
Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscowles View Post
I agree but, as stated in the OP, "... The goal is to have one (or two) dedicated outlets somewhere in the camper to charge our notebooks occasionally or the camera battery. ..."
He also stated wanting a 1000W or 750W inverter so am assuming he wants more than just those 2 items.
__________________
2017 Coachmen 233RBS
2018 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5 Eco
"Common sense is not very common"
babock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 12:19 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Hclarkx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Granite Bay, Ca
Posts: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscowles View Post
The 12V charger I refer to is not an inverter. It's a direct DC-to-DC adapter cable for laptops.

For $50 on Amazon, this project could be done with zero labor. Inverters have advantages other than charging laptops, but that was the OPs stated goal, and the only stated goal.
The OP's stated goal also included a camera battery charger .... so my contribution was to avoid MSW inverters .....
__________________
2020 GMC Denali 2500HD Crew 4X4 Gas 6.6L
2015 8280WS Rockwood Ultra Lite
1000W solar 322AH LFP battery 900W PSW inverter
Nova Kool RFU9000 coming in August.
Hclarkx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 12:21 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 1,480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hclarkx View Post
The OP's stated goal also included a camera battery charger ....
..., which is why I quoted that earlier.
__________________
- 2016 Ford F-150 SCrew Lariat 4x2 3.5L Ecoboost, 1700# payload
- 2020 Rockwood 2507S
chriscowles is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 12:26 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Hclarkx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Granite Bay, Ca
Posts: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcap View Post
The meter should be able to calculate the state of the battery. It's a knock off of the Victron and I thought I give it a shot. Here's the reference: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I think this is the one that Will Prouse tested and liked. Let us know how it works when the time comes. I'm particularly interested in whether it has all of the settings needed to accommodate LFP. You will know that in due time.
__________________
2020 GMC Denali 2500HD Crew 4X4 Gas 6.6L
2015 8280WS Rockwood Ultra Lite
1000W solar 322AH LFP battery 900W PSW inverter
Nova Kool RFU9000 coming in August.
Hclarkx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 12:36 PM   #17
Benchdog
 
benchdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Remsen
Posts: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcap View Post
Happy Monday,

I'm more than happy about this community and found a lot of helpful advise for the other topics I posted questions about. I did quite a bit of research before I write this post and most of my questions got answered already.

The goal is to have one (or two) dedicated outlets somewhere in the camper to charge our notebooks occasionally or the camera battery. In the same go I will install a Battleborn LiFePO4 battery.

To make it easier I thought I install the inverter next to the water heater in my 22MKSE. In theory the BB battery would still fit next to it too - I'm indecisive if I should move it in or leave it outside on the tongue.

Currently my setup thoughts are:

- Renogy 700W or 1000W 12V Pure Sine Wave Inverter
- 150A ANL Fuse with box
- 4 AWG wire (~3 ft)
- AiLi Voltmeter up to 350A

Here are my questions:

1) All of the inverters seem to have the outlets directly on the inverter and no option to hardwire outlets to the inverter. I would like to have the outlet somewhere around the night stand (easy to install). What's the desired way to accomplish that? Buying an outlet, cutting off one side of a cable and wire it to the outlet then plug the other side to the inverter? I assume just installing the inverter into the closet is NOT a good option as if the closet is full there's most likely a heat issue.

2) I want a power-off switch for the inverter. Do I have to go with an inverter which comes with this functionality or can I just install a 12V switch? If so do you have recommendations for the switch and inverter?

3) Forst River is using some plastic cable throughs (~3-4 inches long) for their propane pipes and cables to get them through the floor (see picture). I tried to find these on Amazon, eTrailer or somewhere else but couldn't. Do you have a name / source of these? I would like to get these for the two new cables I'm planning to pull through the floor.

I'm more than happy for a inverter recommendation in the ~$160 price range or lower - the Renogy reviews are not the best .but I didn't find another pure sine with remote capability...

Thanks for helping out.
I choose to go with the Renogy 3000 watt inverter hardwired to a transfer switch direct hardware to my control panel. This does not limit my options and it is wired to code. I believe the 2000 watt has the ability to be hardwired also.

I have used Renogy for 5 years, and they have been perfect.
__________________

2019 Grey Wolf
20RDSE
2019 Tundra

"Enjoying Family and Life"
benchdog is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 01:31 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Hclarkx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Granite Bay, Ca
Posts: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscowles View Post
..., which is why I quoted that earlier.
Sure you did.

Quote:
For $50 on Amazon, this project could be done with zero labor. Inverters have advantages other than charging laptops, but that was the OPs stated goal, and the only stated goal.
__________________
2020 GMC Denali 2500HD Crew 4X4 Gas 6.6L
2015 8280WS Rockwood Ultra Lite
1000W solar 322AH LFP battery 900W PSW inverter
Nova Kool RFU9000 coming in August.
Hclarkx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 01:41 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Hclarkx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Granite Bay, Ca
Posts: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hclarkx View Post
I put my Canon battery charger on a little 150W modified sine inverter that plugged into a 12V outlet .... it got hot and got that phenolic smell. It still worked, but it was a close call. I don't know if anybody makes a 12V charger for Canon camera lithium batteries. I'll have to look, I could use one (though there are lots of different canon camera batteries ... unfortunately).
I might add that my experience with the $20 150W inverters with a 12V plug is that the idle current is higher than that of my 900W (model SW-1000) Xantrex. There's no substitute for doing it right.

FWIW, my CPAP machine would shut down in short order when the power brick was connected to the cheap MSW inverter ........ my laptop charger made a lot of noise on it. Only the power brick for some self-powered media speakers worked okay on it.
__________________
2020 GMC Denali 2500HD Crew 4X4 Gas 6.6L
2015 8280WS Rockwood Ultra Lite
1000W solar 322AH LFP battery 900W PSW inverter
Nova Kool RFU9000 coming in August.
Hclarkx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 02:35 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Posts: 7,050
Quote:
Originally Posted by benchdog View Post
I choose to go with the Renogy 3000 watt inverter hardwired to a transfer switch direct hardware to my control panel. This does not limit my options and it is wired to code. I believe the 2000 watt has the ability to be hardwired also.

I have used Renogy for 5 years, and they have been perfect.
Of course kinda pointless to go over a 1000W inverter with one BattleBorn battery since the max continuous output of the battery is 100A.
__________________
2017 Coachmen 233RBS
2018 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5 Eco
"Common sense is not very common"
babock is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
inverter

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:40 PM.