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10-28-2020, 04:10 PM
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,371
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Batteries
I use a tool-Kill-A-Watt meter about $25 from Amazon or Home Depot. It runs a history of actual usage in your RV. You have to use an adapter to your 30 amp or 50 amp power going in. But you can turn on 1 appliance at a time and see what your usage is. You can use it as you are on shore power to see combine usage for entire days if you choose. You can do it for 5 minutes or several hours to get a better number of watts used to plan boon docking needs. Remember for numbers on Furnace fan, outside and your set thermostat numbers will really effect power used. I do not use it for A/C numbers as my meter is limited at 20 amps draw at a time.
It gives me a very good rough estimate of what power I need. We did a 60 day trip last year where we boondocks for 4x6 day periods and it was very helpful.
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10-28-2020, 07:06 PM
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#22
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Livermore, CO
Posts: 58
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12V Generator????
I am going to build a 12v generator out of an alternator I have off of my 2004 Jeep. According to research I have done, the requirement is 25 Amps per horsepower. With the use of solar panels, high efficiency inverters and high capacity batteries, I don't think that 120 volt inverter generators will be relevant much longer. With an automotive alternator engine speed is not that critical. Modern alternators can put out a decent amount of amperage at a low speed.
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10-28-2020, 08:04 PM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronco Carl
I am going to build a 12v generator out of an alternator I have off of my 2004 Jeep. According to research I have done, the requirement is 25 Amps per horsepower. With the use of solar panels, high efficiency inverters and high capacity batteries, I don't think that 120 volt inverter generators will be relevant much longer. With an automotive alternator engine speed is not that critical. Modern alternators can put out a decent amount of amperage at a low speed.
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When I was in College they taught me that one horsepower equaled 746 watts. That's not taking into consideration the conversion from mechanical energy to electrical energy by using a gasoline engine and alternator. Considering more like two horsepower of engine power for one Hp (746 watts) of electrical energy you might be able to charge a battery bank with a small gasoline engine. The REAL problem will be making it quiet enough you don't either get thrown out of your campsite by family members or "visited" by any neighbors. Think of listening to your neighbors rototiller or pressure washer for 10 hours a day.
FWIW, by the time you're done you'll have about the same amount of money invested in a working sound enclosure and muffler system as an off the shelf 1 kw generator, and a lot more time invested as well.
Consider that the output voltage from an alternator supplying a bulk charge can be up over 14 volts the potential current could be more like 52 amp but at what noise penalty.
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will." (Japanese Proverb)
"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"
2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2023 f-150 SCREW XLT 3.5 Ecoboost (The result of a $68,000 oil change )
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10-28-2020, 08:29 PM
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#24
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Livermore, CO
Posts: 58
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Yes, but a 12V alternator to charge 12V batteries is more efficient that a generator that has to run at a specific RPM then put the 120V 60 cycle sine wave power to a battery charger system with rectifiers to create 12V to 14V DC power to then charge the batteries so that they can deliver power to an inverter to recreate 120V 60 cycle power to appliances.
Wow, I think I have confused myself. I need to get another beer. I do believe that there is now a place in this world for very highly efficient and simple 12V generator to suppliment solar power.
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10-28-2020, 08:47 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Northern Nevada
Posts: 252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikendan
My point is that with an inverter generator, you can recharge the batteries AND do so much more. Using the tow vehicle to recharge is so inefficient and should only be an emergency solution.
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I'm with bikendan on this....easy/peasy....with a 2000 w inverter generator I run my ac also......don't over think it...keep it simple.
__________________
Dave...Northern Nevada
2018 Rockwood 8299bs
2007 GMC 2500HD Diesel SLT short bed w/gravity flow75 gallon Fuel Tank.. Cat delete
Firestone Airbag Ride Rite system
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10-28-2020, 09:25 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronco Carl
Yes, but a 12V alternator to charge 12V batteries is more efficient that a generator that has to run at a specific RPM then put the 120V 60 cycle sine wave power to a battery charger system with rectifiers to create 12V to 14V DC power to then charge the batteries so that they can deliver power to an inverter to recreate 120V 60 cycle power to appliances.
Wow, I think I have confused myself. I need to get another beer. I do believe that there is now a place in this world for very highly efficient and simple 12V generator to suppliment solar power.
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Wait until you realize how fast you have ro run a small gasoline engine just to get enough horsepower to spin the alternator fast enough to charge.
It's one thing to let a 200 hp engine idle and spin an alternator snd a totally different thing to take a small engine and expect it to be powerful enough to generate current when it's idling.
Most small engines generate their rated power up well over 3,000 rpm's.
FWIW here's a unit exactly like you describe. Only $1900 for a pul start unit that sounds a lot like a portable water pump or leaf blower.
http://<br />
https://www.altendc.co...ators/alten-g1
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will." (Japanese Proverb)
"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"
2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2023 f-150 SCREW XLT 3.5 Ecoboost (The result of a $68,000 oil change )
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10-28-2020, 09:42 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Southern NM
Posts: 9,559
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If you are investing in an RV lifestyle, just get an inverter generator now. You will use it. It is simple and it works. If you look around, you can get one for fairly cheap.
Even my friends who have invested thousands in solar systems still carry a small generator.
I can almost guarantee that after one trip where you try to recharge with the TV, you will be looking for a generator.
__________________
Scott and Liz - Southern NM
2012 Wildcat Sterling 32RL - w/level up (best option ever)
2007 Chevy 2500HD Duramax
Reese Fifth Airborne Sidewinder
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10-28-2020, 10:21 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Space Coast of Florida
Posts: 4,019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lewisra
Ok, don't beat me up, just asking. Why can't I use a 2000w inverter that hooks to TV batteries to use when boondocking, assuming I'd never use A/C? I have a residential frig, dual batteries on my trailer and dual batteries in my new truck.
Something similar to this: https://tinyurl.com/y3hpoaaf
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I guess I’m confused?why would you want to connect the generator to the batteries? Connect the generator to your RV shore power connection. Buy a 30 amp to 120 vac adapter.
By connecting to the shore power connection the converter in your RV will charge your batteries. The inverter will bypass the shore power to the fridge so it will not be draining the batteries while the gen is operating.
Your right, you can’t run ac plus the microwave will be iffy based on its wattage.
So, buy the 2000 watt inverter gen, connect it to your shore power connection and from that point on your RV will operate just like on shore power but with limited high current ac draw appliances.
__________________
2016 Siverback 33IK, Towed 50K+ mile
2018 Ford F-350 Lariat 6.7L V8 Diesel 4WD Crew Cab
"If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there."
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10-28-2020, 11:18 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 100
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Also, consider buying a dual-fuel (gasoline / propane) or doing a propane conversion on your inverter generator. That way, you can run it right off of one of your TT propane tanks and not have to carry around gasoline.
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10-29-2020, 10:51 AM
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#30
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Richmond, IN
Posts: 68
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If you want a low cost option to occasionally charge your TT batteries, get something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GU4O3GG/
I've had something similar for 25+ years and I love them (just keep the connectors clean as they will corrode). If you only need to charge your TT occasionally as you said, this is what I would recommend.
I already have a 2K Honda generator, and would probably always use it instead of my TV to charge the TT. But, if I didn't have the generator and wasn't going to do this very often, I'd use jumper cables.
The cables are a good investment no matter what; the ease of hooking them up, the heavy duty quality, and length make them a winner over Wal-Mart cables.
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10-29-2020, 02:18 PM
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanMoor
If you want a low cost option to occasionally charge your TT batteries, get something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GU4O3GG/
I've had something similar for 25+ years and I love them (just keep the connectors clean as they will corrode). If you only need to charge your TT occasionally as you said, this is what I would recommend.
I already have a 2K Honda generator, and would probably always use it instead of my TV to charge the TT. But, if I didn't have the generator and wasn't going to do this very often, I'd use jumper cables.
The cables are a good investment no matter what; the ease of hooking them up, the heavy duty quality, and length make them a winner over Wal-Mart cables.
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Certainly can't argue that this wouldn't work but it might end up being a very expensive method over time. CHARGING a battery versus merely jump starting another vehicle takes a LOOOOOOONG time. Is it really a good idea to let a vehicle sit and idle for the hours needed? Fuel cost and wear and tear on the engine (from idling) doesn't really make sense to me.
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will." (Japanese Proverb)
"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"
2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2023 f-150 SCREW XLT 3.5 Ecoboost (The result of a $68,000 oil change )
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11-02-2020, 08:27 PM
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#32
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Old man RVer
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 264
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I started reading this thread and, about half way through, had to get a beer. By the time I got to the end I finished the third beer.
Wasn't the original question how to keep the TT's batteries charged when boondocking? If not, I'm completely confused and will head for my forth beer. If it is, then a moderate size, quiet Honda generator should do.
The easiest way to boondock, IMO, is to enjoy the outdoors and forgo the TV, microwave and AC (weather permitting). We did this for years in our motorhome with two solar panels putting out 7 amps at 12.4 volts, charging the batteries during the day (when we were out hiking) so that we could have lights, heat, hot water and cold beer (never forget the beer) at night.
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11-02-2020, 08:30 PM
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#33
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Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Central Va
Posts: 23
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I know this out content on you question but why don't you use a small inverter 1000/2000k generator that will do a better job to run almost everything on your rig.
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11-02-2020, 09:36 PM
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#34
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Site Team
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Goodyear, Arizona
Posts: 33,775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramosans
I know this out content on you question but why don't you use a small inverter 1000/2000k generator that will do a better job to run almost everything on your rig.
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A 1000w inverter generator won't run a microwave, while a 2000w one will. And with a Micro Air upgrade, a 2000w one may run the a/c too.
__________________
Dan-Retired California Firefighter/EMT
Shawn-Musician/Entrepreneur/Wine Expert
and Zoe the Wonder Dog(R.I.P.)
2016 PrimeTime TracerAIR 255, pushing a 2014 Ford F150 SCREW XTR 4x4 3.5 Ecoboost w/Max Tow Package
4pt Equal-i-zer WDH and 1828lbs of payload capacity
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11-02-2020, 10:17 PM
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#35
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 5,055
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Just a couple of observations.
1. I wonder if the OP has looked at https://cargenerator.com/ a commercially available version of what he was talking about. They have a FAQ that provides their answer to many of the questions posted here. The website is a bit confusing, but I think they have a 2k watt continuous version, standard is 2k peak 1000 watt continuous. Sounds like they weigh under 20 lbs.
2. For 2021, Ford on the F150 is offering an option that is a what the OP is talking about as OEM equipment. I suspect this is primarily oriented to construction workers - carpenters etc. who would otherwise haul a generator. So Ford, at least, doesn't have an issue with long runs at idle to power an inverter.
My thoughts. Using an auto for the engine means you are running an engine with full emissions controls. If using a gas engine, I suspect it will be quieter than even a Honda Inverter - it will always be running just over idle speed, even at "full load". Truck will run for somewhere between 50 and 90 hours on a full tank of gas. (Just remember to fill up at appropriate times! ) If I had one, I wouldn't be worried about someone stealing the truck. On mine, you can't put the truck in gear if the fob isn't inside the cab. FWIW, according to the Cargenerator site, gas consumption of a truck at idle is only marginally higher than a stand alone generator. I suspect this is why many semi drivers run their trucks at idle while they are sleeping in them - keeps the AC going at a minimal cost.
Is either of these the best option for the OP? I don't know. Just more ways to engineer a solution specific to the OP's needs.
__________________
Al
I am starting to think, that I will never be old enough--------to know better.
Tolerance will reach such a level that intelligent people will be banned from thinking so as not to offend the imbeciles. Fyodor Mikhailovich Dostoevsky, Russian Novelist
S.E. Mich. Flagstaff 26FKWS / 2022 F-150 3.5 EcoBoost SCrew Propride
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11-02-2020, 10:56 PM
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,330
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The Cargenerator appears to be just an inverter installed in a carrying case with cable and battery clips.
According to testing standards for alternators they really don't deliver rated current until the alternator is spinning at 6,000 rpm or about half that at engine crankshaft.
A 100 amp rated alternator for example will deliver more like 40 amp at idle.
A 1000 watt inverter will need need around 90 amps at max output. Whether or not an idling engine will produce that might be questionable.
FWIW most semi's I've had the displeasure of spending the night next to apparently have a way to run their engines at a fast idle for A/C or heat. Something similar might be needed for a Cargenerator or the battery could go dead before running out of gas.
Just my observation.
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will." (Japanese Proverb)
"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"
2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2023 f-150 SCREW XLT 3.5 Ecoboost (The result of a $68,000 oil change )
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11-02-2020, 11:57 PM
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#37
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 9
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TV to TT charging
So, why don’t you pull up your TV facing the TT battery, hook the batteries with a good set of jumper cables, idle TV and see for yourself? Run all your TT loads, lights, fans, furnace for a day and see see if it works.
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11-02-2020, 11:58 PM
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#38
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 159
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Hours
Personally, I would rather put the hours on an inverter generator than my truck engine. Total maintenance cost difference doesn’t add up, idling hours shortens times between oil changes. Truck engine oil+filter vs genny oil?? Let alone putting the hours on every part of the truck engine. Also, every engine has a limited lifespan (truck motor isn’t made to idle for hours) - I’d rather use the truck engine to get me to the next place. That’s what it’s made to do. The generator will have uses else wise - power outage at home, etc. If you are boondocking and look at propane check propane usage vs available amount on your TT. The heater and water heater and fridge run a long time on TT available propane but the genny may eat the TT propane’s lunch.
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11-03-2020, 12:02 AM
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#39
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,272
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I read reply #35 and know that at truck stops semi drivers let em run all night long, but I care way more for my truck than to have it sit there for hours on end just idling especially on a hot day. A 2000 watt generator just doesn't cost all that much and way more matches the job at hand here. Engine run time at say 10 hours translates to me about 600 miles. Sometimes you end up clear in the next county "thinking out of the box". That's not going hard on anyone ... just fact.
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11-03-2020, 12:08 AM
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#40
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 159
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Using TV/jumper cables
Food for thought - A word of caution on “just hooking up” the jumper cables to your newer TV. One commenter said to “connect to only one battery” others had other versions. You will probably find that your newer rig full of computers and other expensive electronics will say to jump your truck or to jump another rig a certain way, the manufacturer will tell you where to connect the jumper cables. A two alt/two battery system probably has a ground lug and a hot lug that you need to use. Connecting jumper cables elsewhere(batteries, frame) may smoke some electronic unit that will more than pay for your Honda 2k inverter genny.
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