Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-28-2022, 05:07 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
PhilFromMaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Maine
Posts: 656
Lithium Battery warranties and returns

I just had a lithium battery under warranty stop accepting a charge. IMO it has to be a BMS issue. I called the original seller in another State and followed his diagnosing and repair instructions to no avail. When I mentioned the warranty, he said okay, "mail the battery back to me" (at my expense) and he will look at it. He never gave me any instructions on how to go about it.

Numerous emails later, the original seller still hasn't given me specifics on how and where to ship a lithium battery. I tried UPS and they flatly refused to ship it for me. I noticed BattleBorn Batteries will supply you a pre-labeled box with all the necessary warnings for a fee that will allow their batteries to be shipped via Fedex whom they purportedly have a special agreement with.

My question is: does anyone have any actual experience returning a lithium battery, other than a BattleBorn, that they could share? I am starting to believe these cheaper brand warranties are worthless.
PhilFromMaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2022, 05:34 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Rhumblefish's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Right in the Middle
Posts: 737
ooof - Sorry for your experience.

UPS has provisions for shipping lithium batteries, as do most of the other major carriers.

Some questions, so that we might benefit from this:

1. What brand battery is it?
2. Is the 'original seller' a manufacturer, a manufacturer's rep, or a distributor (or simply a previous owner of a used LiFePo)?
3. What are the terms of the warranty (timing)?

Sorry again, amigo.
__________________
2022 Rockwood Roo 235S
2017 Audi Q7 3.0 Prestige w/air (yes, it actually tows that)
WeighSafe hitch - no WD or anti-sway
Rhumblefish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2022, 07:03 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
PhilFromMaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Maine
Posts: 656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhumblefish View Post
ooof - Sorry for your experience.

UPS has provisions for shipping lithium batteries, as do most of the other major carriers.

Some questions, so that we might benefit from this:
by
1. What brand battery is it?
2. Is the 'original seller' a manufacturer, a manufacturer's rep, or a distributor (or simply a previous owner of a used LiFePo)?
3. What are the terms of the warranty (timing)?

Sorry again, amigo.
Thanks for your reply!

1. Rebel Batteries
2. All lifepo4 batteries are made in China by a few manufacturers and then re-branded by distributors.
3. Warranty is something like 5 years (from memory)

I believed the battery initially arrived via UPS. So they do deliver batteries. However, apparently distributors have special arrangements with the shippers pertaining to packaging and the appropriate warnings on the box, etc. I was unequivocally told by UPS that they would not ship my battery. This was both at a UPS Store and at the mother UPS company office.

BB's site also makes it clear that their relationship with Fedex is one where they have worked out all the issues involved with shipping lifepo4 batteries.

I read your reference sites verbiage, but in the trenches at the UPS counter, I was denied service twice.

My point is that without a sincere effort by the distributor-seller to give you an achievable path to return it, a single individual is going to meet stiff resistance when trying to ship lifepo4 back to the seller.
PhilFromMaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2022, 07:23 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 3,530
All I can add is that you usually get what you pay for. I'll bet your battery was a lot cheaper than BattleBorn, wasn't it? And now you know why. By the way, BattleBorn batteries are not made in China and rebranded. BattleBorn batteries are munufactured in their own plant in Reno, Nevada.
NavyLCDR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2022, 07:47 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
nvs4602's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 760
I have bought lithium batteries from individuals online and have received them from UPS. One order was 400 lithium ion 18650 batteries. The other was 8 lifepo4 cells. I still have the boxes if you want pictures for how to ship. You have to have the box labeled properly. Also proper packaging is a must. A wood box is best. But a heavy cardboard box lined with 1" thick foam will also work. I attached a warning label, on the contact line put the sellers contact #.

It all else fails look on YouTube, chances are someone has taken one apart and done a video. Replacing a BMS is pretty simple.
Here's a link for a 100amp bms from battery hookup

https://batteryhookup.com/collection...ow-temp-cutoff
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	un-3481-lithium-battery-label-lb-2997.png
Views:	40
Size:	83.8 KB
ID:	277120   Click image for larger version

Name:	20220728_211036.jpg
Views:	36
Size:	366.7 KB
ID:	277125   Click image for larger version

Name:	20220728_211027.jpg
Views:	34
Size:	394.2 KB
ID:	277126  
nvs4602 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2022, 09:04 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
nvs4602's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 760
I guess if it come to fixing it yourself I could walk you through it. Or come plug in at your house we've wanted to see Maine. The wife's could shop and we could fix your battery.

Good luck, keep us up dated.
nvs4602 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 07:54 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
PhilFromMaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Maine
Posts: 656
Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
All I can add is that you usually get what you pay for. I'll bet your battery was a lot cheaper than BattleBorn, wasn't it? And now you know why. By the way, BattleBorn batteries are not made in China and rebranded. BattleBorn batteries are munufactured in their own plant in Reno, Nevada.
I did investigate this once. So unless something has changed, all the parts are made in China and at best assembled in Utah. What I recall seeing on Youtube from BB was that they have the batteries built in China and that they inspect and do quality control in their place in Utah. That, as I remember, was a couple of years ago on Will Prowse's Youtube channel.
PhilFromMaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 08:11 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
PhilFromMaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Maine
Posts: 656
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvs4602 View Post
I guess if it come to fixing it yourself I could walk you through it. Or come plug in at your house we've wanted to see Maine. The wife's could shop and we could fix your battery.

Good luck, keep us up dated.
I took your advice and searched Youtube for information. I found a site I regularly follow and found this video.


Summarizing, the video states that as an "everyday Joe" shipping a lifepo4 battery is insanely difficult to do and may lead to a 75,000 dollar fine if done improperly. Larger companies that ship these items all the time usually have a full time licensed service that does it for them. Of course some companies like BB do it in house.

You, as an individual, may cheat the system and do it, but if you get caught the fine could be hefty. Most likely the internet retailer has all the certifications and packaging so it only makes sense that if they are sincerely going to take back a battery they would supply you the packaging under their company name. If they won't up front do this, their warranty is a joke.
PhilFromMaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 08:18 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
PhilFromMaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Maine
Posts: 656
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvs4602 View Post
I guess if it come to fixing it yourself I could walk you through it. Or come plug in at your house we've wanted to see Maine. The wife's could shop and we could fix your battery.

Good luck, keep us up dated.
Thanks for the offer. If I still had a house you would be more than welcome to hook up and use it as a base, but as of 2 years ago, I am living in an apartment. I have to rent a storage space for my TT at 125.00 per month.

My lifepo4 is weather proof so opening it will negate that. However, I just may do that and remount the battery inside the TT. Thanks for your help!
PhilFromMaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 12:56 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 15,055
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilFromMaine View Post

You, as an individual, may cheat the system and do it, but if you get caught the fine could be hefty.
A hefty fine could well be the least of one's problems if they cheat and get caught.

The regulations re: shipping "lithium batteries" came about after several Air Crashes that were found to be the result of "lithium batteries" in their cargo.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...some-accidents

If such an incident was traced back to someone who improperly shipped a "Lithium" battery just think of the civil liability one faces beyond any criminal charges and fines.

The shipping issue that arises when one has a warranty problem with a LiFePo4 battery makes Customer Service and even bigger factor when deciding on purchasing. Might be worth the effort to inquire how the company handles the defective battery and who pays? Do they send a "return kit" (like cable companies do with packaging and labels)?

Some may find that that low cost Lithium battery has so many obstacles to obtaining warranty service/replacement it's just a disposable battery.
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will." (Japanese Proverb)

"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"

2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2004 Nissan Titan
TitanMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 08:30 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
nvs4602's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 760
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanMike View Post
A hefty fine could well be the least of one's problems if they cheat and get caught.

The regulations re: shipping "lithium batteries" came about after several Air Crashes that were found to be the result of "lithium batteries" in their cargo.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...some-accidents

If such an incident was traced back to someone who improperly shipped a "Lithium" battery just think of the civil liability one faces beyond any criminal charges and fines.

The shipping issue that arises when one has a warranty problem with a LiFePo4 battery makes Customer Service and even bigger factor when deciding on purchasing. Might be worth the effort to inquire how the company handles the defective battery and who pays? Do they send a "return kit" (like cable companies do with packaging and labels)?

Some may find that that low cost Lithium battery has so many obstacles to obtaining warranty service/replacement it's just a disposable battery.
This was with lithium ion batteries which are more hazards than lifepo4 batteries. They have to be shipped ground shipping only.
nvs4602 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 09:11 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
rk06382's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Alaska
Posts: 1,699
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvs4602 View Post
This was with lithium ion batteries which are more hazards than lifepo4 batteries. They have to be shipped ground shipping only.
My Battle Born LiFePO4 were shipped FedEx air after they were discharged to 25% SOC. It was the only way to get them to Alaska.

Battle Born are worth the extra cost.
__________________
Robert
2018 FR3 28DS | Boondock 99% of the time
Samlex EVO-3012 Inverter/Charger | 600ah Battle Born LiFePO4 | Victron BMV-712 & MPPT 100/50 | 800W Renogy Solar | Fan-Tastic Fans | Blue Ox TruCenter | SnapPads | SumoSprings | Koni Shocks | RVLock
Solar Power & Battle Born batteries
rk06382 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 10:09 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
nvs4602's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 760
Quote:
Originally Posted by rk06382 View Post
My Battle Born LiFePO4 were shipped FedEx air after they were discharged to 25% SOC. It was the only way to get them to Alaska.

Battle Born are worth the extra cost.
I have read a lot of forums on lithium ion batteries. And seen the development of a capacity tester for 18650 lithium ion batteries like found in laptops. It could test 16 batteries at a time and log the data to a computer. One of the parameters of this tester was to discharge each cell to a specific voltage so they could be shipped. batteryhookup.com a big supplier of used salvaged cells requested this as part of their input and investment in the beginning of the crowed funded project.

So I've been building my own battery packs for several years now the biggest one I used 840 lithium ion 18650 cells to build a 316ah 24v battery. Now I build my own lifepo4 batteries too.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20220320_175027.jpg
Views:	31
Size:	513.5 KB
ID:	277160   Click image for larger version

Name:	20200522_210442.jpg
Views:	26
Size:	515.9 KB
ID:	277161  
nvs4602 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2022, 10:58 PM   #14
Open Space Wanted
 
RedRoverComeOver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: X
Posts: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilFromMaine View Post
I did investigate this once. So unless something has changed, all the parts are made in China and at best assembled in Utah. What I recall seeing on Youtube from BB was that they have the batteries built in China and that they inspect and do quality control in their place in Utah. That, as I remember, was a couple of years ago on Will Prowse's Youtube channel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
All I can add is that you usually get what you pay for. I'll bet your battery was a lot cheaper than BattleBorn, wasn't it? And now you know why. By the way, BattleBorn batteries are not made in China and rebranded. BattleBorn batteries are munufactured in their own plant in Reno, Nevada.
Designed and assembled in U.S. Cells are chicom like the others but with more QC?

Another U.S. company assembled in CO.

Part of their 10 year warranty for returns.
Customer pays return shipping on returns or warrantied component inspections. Please note some battery returns may require special documentation and packaging, and these instances will encounter extra fees. This is in order to correctly comply with lithium battery shipping regulations. For all return shipping we recommend using a local shipping service like FedEx office or the UPS Store.

https://www.enduropowerbatteries.com/pages/warranty
RedRoverComeOver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2022, 07:57 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
PhilFromMaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Maine
Posts: 656
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRoverComeOver View Post
Designed and assembled in U.S. Cells are chicom like the others but with more QC?


Part of their 10 year warranty for returns.
Customer pays return shipping on returns or warrantied component inspections. Please note some battery returns may require special documentation and packaging, and these instances will encounter extra fees. This is in order to correctly comply with lithium battery shipping regulations. For all return shipping we recommend using a local shipping service like FedEx office or the UPS Store.

https://www.enduropowerbatteries.com/pages/warranty
And BattleBorn most importantly will supply the return box and inserts with all the documentation needed. And like I said, I was assertively told NO WAY by UPS. BB in another section of their WEB site stated that they had a special agreement with Fedex to ship their batteries. For those who don't know, "chicom" is an acronym for "Chinese communist".

That is the type of support I expect from my supplier, but at present time it looks like I am not going to get it. Any communication is like pulling teeth. I will give them a couple of more days, but then the battery goes to the hazardous waste collection at my expense.

What I would have expected was a telephone conversation with an attempt to diagnose the problem by having me do certain rudimentary tests under his direction and then a decision by him to have me return the battery and his honoring the warranty. It apparently is an issue with the BMS. I get it! even the best BMSs will occasionally fail, but that is, or should be covered in the warranty.
PhilFromMaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2022, 08:30 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
PhilFromMaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Maine
Posts: 656
Final resolution

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilFromMaine View Post
I just had a lithium battery under warranty stop accepting a charge. IMO it has to be a BMS issue. I called the original seller in another State and followed his diagnosing and repair instructions to no avail. When I mentioned the warranty, he said okay, "mail the battery back to me" (at my expense) and he will look at it. He never gave me any instructions on how to go about it.

Numerous emails later, the original seller still hasn't given me specifics on how and where to ship a lithium battery. I tried UPS and they flatly refused to ship it for me. I noticed BattleBorn Batteries will supply you a pre-labeled box with all the necessary warnings for a fee that will allow their batteries to be shipped via Fedex whom they purportedly have a special agreement with.

My question is: does anyone have any actual experience returning a lithium battery, other than a BattleBorn, that they could share? I am starting to believe these cheaper brand warranties are worthless.
Update: Eraic of Rebel Batteries refunded me the cost of the defective battery. I just wanted to set the record straight that Rebel Batteries of Austin, TX stood behind their product.
PhilFromMaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2022, 08:37 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 6,701
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilFromMaine View Post
Update: Eraic of Rebel Batteries refunded me the cost of the defective battery. I just wanted to set the record straight that Rebel Batteries of Austin, TX stood behind their product.
Thanks for the update. Glad they stood behind their product and refunded you the cost.
__________________
2015 Dynamax REV 24TB class C
Reverse_snowbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2022, 09:46 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
nvs4602's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 760
Good to hear that. And thanks for the update.
nvs4602 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2022, 06:21 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilFromMaine View Post
I just had a lithium battery under warranty stop accepting a charge. IMO it has to be a BMS issue. I called the original seller in another State and followed his diagnosing and repair instructions to no avail. When I mentioned the warranty, he said okay, "mail the battery back to me" (at my expense) and he will look at it. He never gave me any instructions on how to go about it.

Numerous emails later, the original seller still hasn't given me specifics on how and where to ship a lithium battery. I tried UPS and they flatly refused to ship it for me. I noticed BattleBorn Batteries will supply you a pre-labeled box with all the necessary warnings for a fee that will allow their batteries to be shipped via Fedex whom they purportedly have a special agreement with.

My question is: does anyone have any actual experience returning a lithium battery, other than a BattleBorn, that they could share? I am starting to believe these cheaper brand warranties are worthless.
I agree with some warranties are useless.

The money you save purchasing an item far from home (usually through shipping) that has a long warranty, probably wonít be worth the savings when you need a replacement.

I believe with lithium batteries, itís best to buy a brand name locally. You get what you pay for.

Good luck.
jlynn721 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2022, 11:26 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Tom48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Ontario, California
Posts: 2,050
Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
All I can add is that you usually get what you pay for. I'll bet your battery was a lot cheaper than BattleBorn, wasn't it? And now you know why. By the way, BattleBorn batteries are not made in China and rebranded. BattleBorn batteries are munufactured in their own plant in Reno, Nevada.

From imported cells
Tom48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
battery

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:14 PM.