Lithium-ready Converter Question

[IchLiebeBier]

All,
For anyone who has installed the Progressive (or other) converter that outputs 14.6 v constant, have you noticed any issues with the house systems with that much voltage going into it? Things like burned out LED bulbs, shortened life on DSI, etc, etc?

What should I be looking for to prevent damage?

Getting ready to put it in and want to make sure it won't cause issues.

Thanks.

For what it's worth, I asked PD about it, and the response was "So far, we have not experienced any sort of damage to 12 v accessories from the voltage being at 14.6."

[TitanMike]

No issues here. Going on two seasons with LiFePo batteries being charged by a PD Lithium Converter and have yet to replace a bulb or any other 12 V device.

FWIW, your charging voltage when hooked to a tow vehicle or being charged from a coach engine's alternator could be as high as 15 volts, depending on circumstances.

[IchLiebeBier]

TitanMike,
Thanks.

Since you seem to have the same or similar setup, how long does it take the converter to charge the batteries when on generator or shore power. Just curious as to what to expect.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by IchLiebeBier

TitanMike,
Thanks.

Since you seem to have the same or similar setup, how long does it take the converter to charge the batteries when on generator or shore power. Just curious as to what to expect.

I spent the month of January boondocking. Some nights were cold and along with my usual evening movie I averaged 50-60 amp hours of power consumption from my two 100 ah Battleborns.

WHEN I had to run the generator to charge the batteries (most of the time i relied on my portable solar panels) my generator run time never went over 2 hours.

Bear in mind I have changed my converter to a Lithium model but before I did so I had a PD9260, 60 amp converter with Charge Wizard. When I pushed the button on the pendant it performed pretty much the same as the new converter, just manual selection required and a .2 volt deficit end of charge voltage. Generator run time may have changed 15 min's or so more since adding the new converter.

Most of the time I use Solar so generator run time is confined to cloudy days or when I want to use the microwave at Breakfast/Dinner time (or for my movie popcorn ). This run time assists the portable solar. BTW, in the entire month of January I only burned a little over 2 gallons of gasoline in my 3500 w Champion inverter/generator. Less than one 2.5 gallon "can".

[ependydad]

Same as TitanMike. I've had lithium and a lithium-aware converter since September 2017. I did change rigs in March 2018 but it was unrelated to changing the converter. I carried my batteries, inverter, and converter/charger from the old rig to the new one.

In the new rig, I went from having the stock converter 1/2 way back the rig to installing the lithium aware converter to be right next to the batteries. The speed of recharging was incredibly faster with the new location (according to my Victron monitor).

[babock]

Originally Posted by IchLiebeBier

All,
For anyone who has installed the Progressive (or other) converter that outputs 14.6 v constant, have you noticed any issues with the house systems with that much voltage going into it? Things like burned out LED bulbs, shortened life on DSI, etc, etc?

What should I be looking for to prevent damage?

Getting ready to put it in and want to make sure it won't cause issues.

Thanks.

For what it's worth, I asked PD about it, and the response was "So far, we have not experienced any sort of damage to 12 v accessories from the voltage being at 14.6."

Mine does not output 14.6V constant. I have the Progressive Dynamics one. The way it works is while charging it puts out constant current until it hits a voltage threshold...around 14.4V. This is basically bulk the entire time. It's a gradual rise in voltage during this constant current bulk phase. Once it hits this and the BMS of the battery cuts in, the voltage drops to around 13.6V or even less. I hardly even use my converter since I have so much solar but this is what I have seen.

[IchLiebeBier]

Thanks for the replies, all.

I've reserved a site in the Smokies in the spring. That'll be the first real test of boondocking for us, although we'll camp before then and I'll do some testing of the system while we're there.

I'm debating buying portable solar, but I'm torn about whether it's worth it or not. I'll read info on a page saying how great it is, then read other info that says it won't work well where we'll be camping. I'd need at least 400 watts, based on info from this forum. I don't want to spend a thousand dollars to find out the results are disappointing. But I'd likely do it if I thought it would work well for us.

I have a quiet generator already, so I'll have to do more research on it. If I can charge in a couple of hours in the morning and in the evening, that would be great.

[babock]

Originally Posted by IchLiebeBier

If I can charge in a couple of hours in the morning and in the evening, that would be great.

With a 60A converter, you will be replacing 60AH in one hour assuming no other draw. Less generator run time than you might be estimating.

[IchLiebeBier]

babock,
That's good info right there. But will it actually put the full AHs out given the wiring limitations in the converter and camper? Mine is 55 amps.

My batteries are on the tongue just in front of the bedroom. The converter is under a cabinet at the back of the bedroom, so the wiring length shouldn't be too terribly far. but this is one of those things that I see conflicting opinions on.

Also, the generator is 2000w and the camper will be plugged into a 20 amp receptacle with an adapter. If I did the gonkulating correctly, I'd have 1600 running watts from which the converter would pull 660 watts (55a x 12v). So as long as I don't exceed 940 watts pull on the generator for coffee or wifey's hairdryer, I should get close to the full 55 amps devoted to the charger, right? I hope that's right (theoretically). It took me a long time to wrap my head around that concept.

[babock]

Originally Posted by IchLiebeBier

babock,
That's good info right there. But will it actually put the full AHs out given the wiring limitations in the converter and camper? Mine is 55 amps.

That's actually an excellent point. You may have to increase the wiring size if you want 55A. Done all the time even if you still had FLA to reduce charge time.

What I did with mine was put in a new converter right next to the batteries. I was going to get rid of the WFCO anyway so no big deal. Either run a new 120VAC cord back to the power box or run heavier wire to the batteries. To me it was better to run 120VAC cable.

If you pull 55A, it's will be 14V x 55A = 770W. With an 85% efficiency that would be 905W. You will have around 800W leftover so no hair dryer or microwave.

[IchLiebeBier]

Oh yeah, 14.6v, not 12v.

She won't like not having her hair dryer. Maybe I should just leave her home.

[babock]

Originally Posted by IchLiebeBier

Oh yeah, 14.6v, not 12v.

She won't like not having her hair dryer. Maybe I should just leave her home.

I use 14V. By the time the battery reaches 14V, it's basically charged.

Just takes a little time management!

[GoneSouth10]

Originally Posted by IchLiebeBier

If I did the gonkulating correctly, . . .

You had me at "gonkulating" . . .

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by babock

With a 60A converter, you will be replacing 60AH in one hour assuming no other draw. Less generator run time than you might be estimating.

To further illustrate this point. I forgot that I turned off my converter the other day (long story).

Today, I was getting a lunch out of the fridge and noticed it was flashing "lo"/"dc".

I chuckled and before I flipped the converter's breaker back on, I checked my Victron BMV:


5.4 amp draw and 377 amp hours used (which is shockingly high as that was from Tuesday to now, we're plugged in, and haven't used the furnace, just A/Cs... I think I need to research that a bit).

Anyway, I turned on the converter and with my 80amp converter, I was seeing 70amps pushed into the batteries.


Though, 3 hours later it's dropped to 60amps pushing into the batteries. I don't know if I'm having higher draws from other things or if the charger itself has dialed back some.

[IchLiebeBier]

ependydad, maybe that amp draw you're seeing is what caused you to have so many amp hours used.

I installed the new converter yesterday, and I'll tell you, it wasn't as simple as they make it out to be (wfco 8955 to pd4655liv). The converter and battery connections on the DC board were angled differenty, so I had to figure out how to route the large battery cables to attach sideways to the board, vice up/down. Then, the DC board wouldn't snap into the same place as the old board. The new board has two plastic boards sandwiched together whereas the old one only had one. I had to modify the snap holders to get the board to snap into place.

In the end, I got it to work, but I didn't test it. I didn't have the generator with me. Plus, it has a cover on it and I don't want to turn all of that on with it covered, just in case there's an issue.

I was pleasantly surprised at how heavy of a gauge the battery wires were. I couldn't see the gauge on the wires themselves, but I'd guess at least 6 or maybe even 4. They were not easy to bend around. At any rate, they were much bigger than the 10 gauge wire connecting the converter to the DC board. Hopefully I won't have much of an issue with voltage dropoff.

[tomkatb]

The great smokies will be a good test for solar. We are headed for Pigeon Forge the first week of April. Will be plugged in.

The area is very hilly with resorts in the valleys near creeks. Wonderfully shaded campsites.

The Smokey name refers to the lingering low level clouds that look like smoke in the morning. Really pretty in the valleys.

Chilly. The heater will run.

[Benito]

Bonjour, je prévoit acheter un motorisé forest river mbs 2020 avec le nouveau plan de plancher modèle 24001B. Donc ma question est si je remplace mes batteries agm d'origine pour des batteries au lithium doige aussi remplacer patented 4-stage Charge Wizard® converter system, installer d'origine par Forest river ?
Merci à l'avance de vos conseils !

[GoneSouth10]

Originally Posted by Benito

Bonjour, je prévoit acheter un motorisé forest river mbs 2020 avec le nouveau plan de plancher modèle 24001B. Donc ma question est si je remplace mes batteries agm d'origine pour des batteries au lithium doige aussi remplacer patented 4-stage Charge Wizard® converter system, installer d'origine par Forest river ?
Merci à l'avance de vos conseils !

Just in case:

Hello, I plan to buy a Forest River MBS 2020 with the new floor plan model 24001B. So my question is if I replace my original AGM batteries for lithium batteries do I also need to replace the patented 4-stage Charge Wizard® converter system, originally installed by Forest River?
Thank you in advance for your advice!

[NJKris]

TitanMike and babock had me seriously thinking about going Lithium, still I started researching for new converter. My WFCO 35 amp 8500 series converter would have to be changed out to a Lithium capable converter. WFCO does not have any plug and play solution like some Progressive's do. Either way, it looks like I would have to wire in a whole new load center, that sounds like a PITA. I don't have a stand alone charger with lithium profiles. My solar controllers do.

[corn18]

I am planning on buying a 2020 2109S with the factory installed 190W roof solar. I am also planning on using a single LiFePO4 Battle Born battery. Will I need to get a different converter or will the one that comes with the trailer work fine?