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Old 02-26-2014, 12:01 AM   #21
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Thank you Cam. I will definitely look into the new tech batteries; though they seem to be too rich for my blood at the present time.

Always pleased when I can learn something new.
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Old 02-27-2014, 10:03 PM   #22
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Battery revolution - Ocean Navigator - March/April 2011

Odyssey Batteries

So, I did as Cam suggested and looked into the new (and very cool) TPPL technology being marketed by EnerSys under the Odyssey brand name. The Thin Plate Pure Lead idea is a technology whose time has NOT come.

While it does have great longevity, the price per 20Amp AH capacity is woefully miniscule for the price. MUCH better values in AGM and Wet Cell in the same AH capacity from Trojan, Interstate, and even PowerStar.

Amazon.com: PowerStar--12V 80AH Replacement Battery UB12750 Group 24, Marine Sealed Lead Acid Battery: Automotive

This sealed 80AH battery is 1/2 the price of an equivalent TPPL sealed battery in a much smaller footprint.

PC1350 - Odyssey batteries

Remember to convert RC (Reserve Capacity - or minutes of power at 25 amps) that is used to describe DP or Dual Purpose batteries to the industry standard 20 amp draw AMP HOUR (AH) you must multiply the RC minutes by 0.4167 (So a 200 RC battery is actually rated at 200*0.4167 or 83AH)

Like this $250 Exide Marine Battery http://www.amazon.com/Exide-XMC-31-M...V6JKPXX34HBPZ2
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Old 02-27-2014, 11:11 PM   #23
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Herk.. A couple of points...
1. I agree the Odyssey prices are very high...which is why I suggested the Sears Diehard Platinum which run 1/3 off the odyssey prices yet are the same batteries.

2. Your economics calculation is correct as far as it goes but it does not go far enough. It must calculate the amp hours produced over a lifetime of cycles...not merely the cost per amp hour.
3. I would not suggest Odyssey except in certain situations. For most RV'ers ...a couple of GC wet cells and 224 amp hours...or two set of them is both a Costco bargain and all they will ever need. The REASON I suggested them to the OP in this case is because there is room for only 1 12V battery AND he boondocks. Let's take a conventional group 31 wet cell or AGM with 100 amp hours ...How many amp hours a day can be used without regharging? 50 right?
OK now lets assume we use those 50 and have a 100 amp charger. How long will it take to put those 50 back in with the charger? Answer: 20 amps inrush for 2 hours to get you to 90% and at least another hour to get to 100%. Fun running the genny for 3 hours.
Same situation with Odysseys...you don't have to run the genny at all because you can wait till you are 80% discharged. When you do run the genny...you can put back the 80 amps in an hour or so.
THAT is the advantage of the odyssey for a boondocker with limited battery storage space. At the Sears prices and delivering the lifetime amp hours they do...they are an excellent value for many situations but NOT for most plug in RV type use.
Does that make a bit more sense than my previous comments?!
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Old 02-27-2014, 11:16 PM   #24
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ONE 80AH battery no matter how great is not going to cut it if the boondocker needs to use an inverter. Just sayin'
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Old 02-28-2014, 01:48 AM   #25
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ok i see the benefit of a tppl type battery (i wont touch on the price as depending on how you calculate it, each battery type has its advantages/limitations)

but i digress....what type of charging system would one need in order to put back in 80amps in an hr? obviously the stock converter would not suffice for this type of charging?

i charge large high end lipo battery packs for my rc helis/planes and i know the charger and power supplies in that application ran about 600$?

dont a stock converter only charge back at 20amp/hr?..
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Old 02-28-2014, 04:09 AM   #26
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If I were a boondocker, I would go with the interstate 6 volt deep cycle. To bad they don't make a 12v deep cycle only. They say they will be coming out with them soon. Just seen an interview on interstate a couple of days ago.
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Old 03-01-2014, 03:08 PM   #27
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Quote:
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ok i see the benefit of a tppl type battery (i wont touch on the price as depending on how you calculate it, each battery type has its advantages/limitations)

but i digress....what type of charging system would one need in order to put back in 80amps in an hr? obviously the stock converter would not suffice for this type of charging?

i charge large high end lipo battery packs for my rc helis/planes and i know the charger and power supplies in that application ran about 600$?

dont a stock converter only charge back at 20amp/hr?..
Don't know much about what "stock" is but I've seen a lot of classA gas coaches with around 50 amps. Just as an example...the IOTA DLS90 will put 90 amps into a TPPL in an hour. BUT it will NOT do that on a conventional battery since the limiting factor is that a conventional battery won't charge at more than about 20% of it's rated amps...and that is during bulk charging. Once you hit about 80% Full on your batteries...the amps will drop until you are close to 100% where they will be 1-2% of capacity. Bottom line...if you have conventional batteries...your charger should be sized at 20% or so of your bank size. If you have AGM batteries you can go at least twice that safely. If you have TPPL's... the sky is the limit.
I note that in addition to the IOTA mentions...a lot of big inverters from Magnum and Xantrex also have over 100amp chargers built in. Powermax also makes a 100amp converter. POWERMAX PM3-100 12 VOLT DC 100 AMP POWER CONVERTER CHARGER WITH 3 STAGE AUTOMATIC SMART BATTERY CHARGER : Amazon.com : Automotive

Even a wet cell bank of 4 golf cart batteries will benefit from such a charger since 450amphours of batteries can take 90amps or so during bulk. 225 (50%) amps can be put back in in less than 4 hours...vs. about 6 for a 50 amp standard charger. As before...it is really only a consideration for most folks when boondocking since you don't run the genny or consider the time to recharge when you're gonna be plugged in 24x7.
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Old 03-01-2014, 04:07 PM   #28
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Tossing in the "inverter" just was not what was needed or what the OP had intended. Cam gave a great primer on batteries and tech available to those needing high amp draw to recharge time availability. With everything said in the past 3 pages, it is up to the consumer to decide what is best in terms of $$, $$/amp, $$/amp - cycle. Just a lot of information and well presented. Thanks everyone.
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Old 03-01-2014, 04:56 PM   #29
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Thanks cam....as most trailer converters are 40-50 amps slapping in a few tppl bats with high charge cap is limited by ability to charge at that rate...in a boondocking situation the beauty of these batts is discharge ability and high rate RECHARGE ability....but with a small converter you would still ve stuck running the genny for a long time....as the converter would be the bottle neck

sent from fat fingers via a space dish thing with no regard to grammer.
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Old 03-01-2014, 05:43 PM   #30
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I don't know about the chargers in some units, but the stock WFCO converter's are woefully poor in charging up to the maximum. My 45 amp WFCO does 40 ish amps for about 10 minutes until it begins to woos out.

For drycamping, off a generator, an external charger of 100 amps or so will always do better.

ALSO the normal charge cycle tapers off so much after 80% State of Charge, that practically all that's available from a wet cell is between 80% and 50% which is a paltry 30 amphours in a 100 amphour 12volt. Running a generator for that last 20% just takes to long.

This is where the Gel, AGM, tppl, lithium excel cause you can use between 20% and 80% which is 60 AH, double the capacity of a wet cell AND you can charge them more aggressively to boot.

Having said that I still have two 6 volt wet cells and 200 AH capacity but I have the room for them. If I was limited to one battery I would be VERY tempted to lay out the cash for some of the new technology batteries and a whooper of an external charger.
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Old 03-01-2014, 07:57 PM   #31
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Wow..... Those few pages of info have my eyes hurting as well as my thinker. lol
I wish I could add more battery space, but with my tongue weight and hauling a Quad in the bed of my truck, I'm afraid it will be too much. The post about only being able to use the middle third of the batteries capacity is worrisome. I have the $200 Trojan SCS200 as the one to buy with my space available. I believe this is a good choice.
I have not made the sale as of yet, so keep the posts coming..
So much for the easy, simple answer. lol
I am learning a lot from all the posts, THANK YOU all.
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Old 03-02-2014, 01:01 AM   #32
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That's a very nice battery and will serve you well. A good voltmeter or preferably a battery monitor (good ones cost as much or more than the battery) would help manage your power usage on your drycamping events. AND mostly a careful eye on your consumption will help also.
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:34 AM   #33
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@ surveyor Mike...I'll second garbonz entirely and add that Victron makes an excellent battery monitor and if you or others boondock a lot...you won't believe how useful they can be when you know your amps remaining...amps being used...time to go to 50%...and % of charge and charging amps when charging. Along with the usual volt readings of course.

The bmv600 monitors all of this on one BANK of batteries. Their BMV602 also lets you monitor voltage ALONE on your chassis battery. BMV-600S series - Victron Energy
Installation is easy. You simply take ALL the stuff that is attached to your negative battery terminal and bolt it on to one end of the supplied shunt. The other side of the shunt goes to the negative battery terminal with a cable. Attach the positive wire supplied to the positive post and the shunt. Finally... you plug in the telephone wire to the shunt and the actual meter and you're in business.
I understand Trimetric also makes a good monitor but I can only speak from experience about the Victron.
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Old 03-02-2014, 07:33 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
@ surveyor Mike...I'll second garbonz entirely and add that Victron makes an excellent battery monitor and if you or others boondock a lot...you won't believe how useful they can be when you know your amps remaining...amps being used...time to go to 50%...and % of charge and charging amps when charging. Along with the usual volt readings of course.

The bmv600 monitors all of this on one BANK of batteries. Their BMV602 also lets you monitor voltage ALONE on your chassis battery. BMV-600S series - Victron Energy
Installation is easy. You simply take ALL the stuff that is attached to your negative battery terminal and bolt it on to one end of the supplied shunt. The other side of the shunt goes to the negative battery terminal with a cable. Attach the positive wire supplied to the positive post and the shunt. Finally... you plug in the telephone wire to the shunt and the actual meter and you're in business.
I understand Trimetric also makes a good monitor but I can only speak from experience about the Victron.

X2 I love my Victron

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Old 03-03-2014, 05:19 PM   #35
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I like my TriMetric TM-2025RV.

Inexpensive and works great.
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