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Old 05-17-2024, 08:08 AM   #1
llr
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New "hot skin" condition I never thought of before

Yesterday our dog touched the steps and got scarred wouldn't do it again. I found out later a dog on another box also got shocked.

I started checking and found 120v to ground.

Thinking it was my unit I opened the panel and started checking grounds to be sure they were tight. The ground and common buses are very close together and I drew a good arc with matching burn marks on the screw and screwdriver. NOT a loose ground issue. After this I had no more 120v to ground.

On further investigation it turns out each panel in the fairgrounds has 4 30A outlets with the grounds nicely tied together and to the box. But NOT tied back to anything and the boxes are on wooden posts.

Another camper on our box burnt out the water heater do to no water. With no ground it didn't burn completely or trip a breaker and fed power to ground to all units on the panel. When I shorted ground to common I "finished" the element.

This was at the Coshocton county OH fairgrounds in case anyone goes there. I did notify the fair board but am not optimistic.

EDIT: I do have a Progressive EMS on order to detect this in the future
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Old 05-17-2024, 08:27 AM   #2
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So if I'm understanding correctly, the grounds on the pedestal boxes were floating, and the water heater element failed with a short to ground, but since the grounds were floating they were now live. Definitely not a good situation.


I keep a 3 light tester in one RV outlet at all times, and it has warned me of open grounds at some sites.
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Old 05-17-2024, 08:33 AM   #3
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You certainly had an interesting day.
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Old 05-17-2024, 08:51 AM   #4
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So if I'm understanding correctly, the grounds on the pedestal boxes were floating, and the water heater element failed with a short to ground, but since the grounds were floating they were now live. Definitely not a good situation.


I keep a 3 light tester in one RV outlet at all times, and it has warned me of open grounds at some sites.
Correct, and the water heater failure was in another camper sharing the box.
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Old 05-17-2024, 08:55 AM   #5
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You certainly had an interesting day.
yes.

And the poor dog, I couldn't feel anything on the steps so made her try again I was not there to see her 1st reaction. I was standing in wet grass with damp shoes so was surprised I couldn't feel it.
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Old 05-17-2024, 10:38 AM   #6
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In some places, they bond the neutral and ground together at the service point so that a fault current in the ground wire will trip the breaker and eliminate the hazard. NEC come to mind.
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Old 05-17-2024, 10:43 AM   #7
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I was standing in wet grass with damp shoes so was surprised I couldn't feel it.
Maybe you're just a well grounded individual.
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Old 05-17-2024, 11:29 AM   #8
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I keep a 3 light tester in one RV outlet at all times, and it has warned me of open grounds at some sites.
I am not sure how these work but mine does not show an open ground, so I won't trust that.

Maybe there is enough leakage (steps, levelers etc) to ground to light the neon bulb.
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Old 05-17-2024, 11:32 AM   #9
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In some places, they bond the neutral and ground together at the service point so that a fault current in the ground wire will trip the breaker and eliminate the hazard. NEC come to mind.
At least residential that is required at the main service panel. Here I would assume it would be the box on the pole with the transformer. But no ground leaves the pedestal
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Old 05-17-2024, 11:33 AM   #10
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Maybe you're just a well grounded individual.
Or shocked to many times, starting as a toddler that I am finally immune
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Old 05-17-2024, 12:03 PM   #11
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"EDIT: I do have a Progressive EMS on order to detect this in the future"

Just so you know, an EMS will not detect all types of Hot Skin conditions
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Old 05-17-2024, 12:55 PM   #12
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A fairgrounds implies some sort of municipal entity owning and managing it...likely the county...or worse, the state. With that in mind, the failure to meet code is especially eggregious and highly negligent. After all, it's the county that typically enforces code!

Glad you, your pups, and your rig are OK. This is, as they say, a lawsuit waiting to happen, and rest assured, the County would pay handsomely for this negligence. Perhaps the County needs a new electrical inspector.
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Old 05-17-2024, 02:09 PM   #13
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Maybe you're just a well grounded individual.
Grounded?
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Old 05-17-2024, 03:21 PM   #14
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A fairgrounds implies some sort of municipal entity owning and managing it...likely the county...or worse, the state. With that in mind, the failure to meet code is especially eggregious and highly negligent. After all, it's the county that typically enforces code!

Glad you, your pups, and your rig are OK. This is, as they say, a lawsuit waiting to happen, and rest assured, the County would pay handsomely for this negligence. Perhaps the County needs a new electrical inspector.
This is a county fairground. I tried to find contact information for the county building department but I don't find it. I did reach out to the fair board and they say they forwarded it to the board president, I am not optimistic about it being properly fixed. Unfortunately it will probably take a lawsuit to get it fixed
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Old 05-17-2024, 05:03 PM   #15
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This is a county fairground. I tried to find contact information for the county building department but I don't find it. I did reach out to the fair board and they say they forwarded it to the board president, I am not optimistic about it being properly fixed. Unfortunately it will probably take a lawsuit to get it fixed

Report it as a shock hazard to the power company, they might come out and do a quick test and shut off the power until it is fixed. That would certainly get the attention of the fair grounds maintenance people.
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Old 05-17-2024, 05:24 PM   #16
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This is why every one should have a good EMS like the Hughes Watch Dog. A good EMS would no let any power through with in your situation.
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Old 05-17-2024, 07:30 PM   #17
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This is why every one should have a good EMS like the Hughes Watch Dog. A good EMS would no let any power through with in your situation.
Hughes Power Watchdog is bulky and expensive. And I'm very glad I bought one to protect against this type of situation.
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Old 05-17-2024, 07:41 PM   #18
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Old 05-18-2024, 12:48 PM   #19
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Yesterday our dog touched the steps and got scarred wouldn't do it again. I found out later a dog on another box also got shocked......

I started checking and found 120v to ground........

This was at the Coshocton county OH fairgrounds in case anyone goes there. I did notify the fair board but am not optimistic.
Was just browsing this threat ans saw your comment about reporting the fault. This would be reason enough to avoid this venue like the plague. Nobody's concerned until someone gets electrocuted.
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Old 05-18-2024, 03:25 PM   #20
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Was just browsing this threat ans saw your comment about reporting the fault. This would be reason enough to avoid this venue like the plague. Nobody's concerned until someone gets electrocuted.
This is at a Good Sam rally and more senior people then me say they have been responsive to prior electrical issues so I am am a little more optimistic.

I am not sure how the progressive EMS detects open grounds but my cheap outlet tester does not report it. I wonder id there is enough of a ground though three campers steps and levelers to give a "good" indication when it is not.

I will be a lot more careful in the future, especially with shared pedestals where this is more likely. I am also going start bring long screw anchors and cable to connect to the frame, just in case. And absolutely listen to the dog at the slightest indication.
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