New Shore Power Receptacle Install Question

[Vibe101]

Hi All.

Does anyone have any experience installing shore power receptacles?

I want to move my trailer parking pad about 20 feet away from its current location and to make the move clean and safe I am also going to move the shore power and water connections out to the new pad.

Currently (pun not intended) there is a 50 amp RV receptacle box mounted to the outer side wall of my steel building and it is fed by the four red/green/white/black wires that are routed from the inside of the building through metal conduit that is inserted horizontally through the side wall outside to the steel box where the receptacle is installed as per code.

I want to decommission that receptacle so I can extend the wires outside underground to a newly installed pedestal about 20 feet away...in other words I need to open the existing metal box, eliminate the receptacle and put a cover over the opening, run a conduit from the bottom of the existing box down the outside wall of the building and into the ground and then run it under ground out horizontal 20 feet, and then up the side of the newly installed "pedestal" (6x6 pressure treated post sticking out of the ground) to a new receptacle.

So the questions are:

-What method should I use to electrically connect the 4 wires at the side wall box to the new wires that are being run through the conduit to the new pedestal mounted receptacle?

-The travel trailer that will occupy my new trailer park is a 30 Amp unit so I presume I should run the four 50 Amp wires through the new underground conduit to the new new pedestal mounted receptacle so as to take advantage of the additional conductor?

-Regarding the new receptacle, should I go with a 50 Amp or a 30 Amp?
-If I install a 50 Amp receptacle to the new pedestal, I could plug in the trailer in using the typical 50 Amp to 30 Amp adapter plug...or...
-Should I install a 30 Amp receptacle at the new pedestal so as to limit the current draw considering the the additional 30-ish feet of wire resistance?
-If I went with a 30 Amp receptacle, then how would I connect the 4 wires to the 3 wire 30 Amp plug?

-What is an economical conduit for the underground run that is appropriate for the exposed sections (down steel building wall and up pedestal)?
-How deep does conduit need to be buried?
-What diameter conduit should I use?

-Where is a good source to procure the plastic pink flamingos, tiki torches, and rolled out fake grass required to amplify the tackiness of my new trailer park?

Sorry for the slightly off topic question however you all are the smartest people I know on any subject so I'm sure there is someone on this list who used to do this work and could provide some "if it were me I would..." statements.

Thanks for your help!!!

Bill

[NavyLCDR]

It violates code to put a 30 amp receptacle onto a 50 amp circuit. If you wanted a 30 amp receptacle then you would need to change out the current 50 amp dual circuit breaker in your panel for a single 30 amp circuit breaker. You could, however, put a subpanel on your "pedestal" with a 30 amp circuit breaker in it that would feed a 30 amp receptacle. The 2nd hot leg of the 50 amp circuit would need to just be capped off.

The advantage to doing a 30 amp sub-panel with a breaker in it is that the 30 amp breaker in the sub-panel would trip before the 50 amp breaker in the house panel and it would be more convenient to reset.

[sdfarmer]

After 50 years as a master electrician, I will be glad to offer you the best advice I can provide.

HIRE A LICENSED ELECTRICIAN!!!!

[glen1971]

Easiest would to extend all 4 wires, connect them color for color and position for position on the relocated receptacle. As for the rest of the electrical side, hire an electrician. If you are changing to a 30 amp receptacle, they'll know exactly what to, and how to do it safely.
As for Flamingos, have you tried a Dollarstore or Walmart?

[glen1971]

Originally Posted by sdfarmer

After 50 years as a master electrician, I will be glad to offer you the best advice I can provide.

HIRE A LICENSED ELECTRICIAN!!!!

Exactly!!

[NavyLCDR]

Originally Posted by glen1971

Easiest would to extend all 4 wires, connect them color for color and position for position on the relocated receptacle. As for the rest of the electrical side, hire an electrician. If you are changing to a 30 amp receptacle, they'll know exactly what to, and how to do it safely.
As for Flamingos, have you tried a Dollarstore or Walmart?

Not always. There have been multiple reports on this forum (and just about any RV forum) of licensed electricians wiring an RV 30 amp receptacle for 240 volts and burning up owners' converters in the RVs.

[glen1971]

Originally Posted by NavyLCDR

Not always. There have been multiple reports on this forum (and just about any RV forum) of licensed electricians wiring an RV 30 amp receptacle for 240 volts and burning up owners' converters in the RVs.

Then, in my opinion, those "electricians" don't know their trade. If the receptacle says "125 volt 30 amp", that's what it gets. Anything else is wrong and that electrician should be called to task if it damages something. And if a home owner or RV owner wants to see the voltages once the receptacle is installed and verify it is correct, that is well within their right.

[High Country Duramax]

Keep it 50a if possible or you’ll regret it later.

[MisterVick]

You have the right ideas and this is not a difficult renovation. If it were my location I'd run the 50 amp to the new location and adapt down with a 50 to 30 adapter so you can expand to 50 in the future with no additional modification. An electrician needs to do the bulk of your work but might be fine and save you some money if you open the ditch for them. You may, dependent upon code, not be required to use conduit in the ground and may be able to use "direct burial cable" which could also save you some money. You'll have to get a line location before digging to make sure there are no other utilities buried within your path - there will be a call-in service in your area where you can enter your address and project information and they'll come mark your utilities. In my metropolitan area that's usually a 24 - 72 hour window. However, if you're rural there may not be an option for a line locate, in which case make sure you know there are no gas, electric, water lines in your path and then it's safest to hand dig the trench.

Best advice already given is get an electrician for the hardcore electrical side of this and then you have some insulation from liability if your building burns down. I did a similar project at our mooch-dock location and after I bought the pedestal box on Amazon the electrician's bill was $750 and I dug the ditch, but it was sixty feet.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by High Country Duramax

Keep it 50a if possible or you’ll regret it later.

And do any of the "licensed electricians" on this forum know whether its permissible to have two 50 amp receptacles on the same breaker? If so, why not just add a second receptacle to the same circuit? This is analogous to 120 Vac outlet wiring where you often have 5-7 outlet per 15 or 20 amp breaker.

This gives additional flexibility on where you park the RV, whether you decide to have guest or be a Harvest Host, etc.

Your installer could tap into the wiring inside the house, breach the wall a second time, to run to the new pedestal.

[aircommuter]

Originally Posted by Larry-NC

And do any of the "licensed electricians" on this forum know whether its permissible to have two 50 amp receptacles on the same breaker? If so, why not just add a second receptacle to the same circuit? This is analogous to 120 Vac outlet wiring where you often have 5-7 outlet per 15 or 20 amp breaker.

This gives additional flexibility on where you park the RV, whether you decide to have guest or be a Harvest Host, etc.

Your installer could tap into the wiring inside the house, breach the wall a second time, to run to the new pedestal.

I have done exactly that for my own shops as well as others projects. I am a retired contractor with both general engineering and general building licenses. Electrical has always been performed as part of the projects we do.

[pdqparalegal1]

Originally Posted by sdfarmer

After 50 years as a master electrician, I will be glad to offer you the best advice I can provide.

HIRE A LICENSED ELECTRICIAN!!!!

Times 10

[jkoenig24]

"If you are changing to a 30 amp receptacle, they'll know exactly what to, and how to do it safely."

Ummmm, MORE than a few cases of "Professional Electricians" NOT understanding the requirements of campground wiring and the special needs RVs can pose. That said, YES, hire a PROFESSIONAL electrician BUT make sure that said "professional" is THOROUGHLY familiar with RV /campground needs. More than one RV's electrical system has been instantly "fried" when plugged into an improperly wired RV pedestal which HAD been wired by a "Professional Electrician". A section of the NFPA (Nat'l Fire Protection Act) covers RVs as opposed to just the NEC (Nat'l Electric Code).

One final caveat. Even at your own PROPERLY WIRED RV pedestal, perform your safety checks EVERY TIME BEFORE you plug in and power up. Mr Murphy IS "alive & kicking". Feces Occurs.

[Bob K4TAX]

Originally Posted by sdfarmer

After 50 years as a master electrician, I will be glad to offer you the best advice I can provide.

HIRE A LICENSED ELECTRICIAN!!!!

Based on the questions asked originally, this job should be done by a Licensed Electrician. And preferably one who has RV experience.

[D W]

Originally Posted by Bob K4TAX

Based on the questions asked originally, this job should be done by a Licensed Electrician. And preferably one who has RV experience.

Better yet, hire a "qualified" electrician. Having a license does not make you a professional. We have "licensed" drivers on our highways and many of them aren't qualified to operate even so much as a pedal car.

[ProfChuck]

As everyone has said, have a REAL electrician do the job. However, absolutely go with the 50 amp service. Having said that, there is a box that has a combination of 50-30-20 amp service (ask your electrician to find it for you) that wires up using the 50A cabling. We just installed one at our Lakehouse and it works beautifully. Our electrician found it (I was going to just put in a 30A box), so we had him install that instead of the 30A box. I presume it costs more, but, in the long run it will be worth it. Having all three services allows us to also use the 20A (regular socket) for tools, etc. when needed without having to run a longer extension cord and still have the correct hookups for both the 30A and 50A RV's. It is a win, win, and worth the investment.

[caper]

Why not purchase the same post campgrounds use. It will have a 50 amp, 30 amp and 20 amp receptacle on it. Then it would be the simple task of running the appropriate wires to the new box. You will have s dedicated 30 amp with a 30 amp breaker, a 50 amp if needed in the future and a 20 amp all with their own breaker right on the post.

[glen1971]

Originally Posted by jkoenig24

"If you are changing to a 30 amp receptacle, they'll know exactly what to, and how to do it safely."

Ummmm, MORE than a few cases of "Professional Electricians" NOT understanding the requirements of campground wiring and the special needs RVs can pose. That said, YES, hire a PROFESSIONAL electrician BUT make sure that said "professional" is THOROUGHLY familiar with RV /campground needs. More than one RV's electrical system has been instantly "fried" when plugged into an improperly wired RV pedestal which HAD been wired by a "Professional Electrician". A section of the NFPA (Nat'l Fire Protection Act) covers RVs as opposed to just the NEC (Nat'l Electric Code).

One final caveat. Even at your own PROPERLY WIRED RV pedestal, perform your safety checks EVERY TIME BEFORE you plug in and power up. Mr Murphy IS "alive & kicking". Feces Occurs.

I have definitely read about a signifigant number of RVs that have been damaged due to improper electrical work being done. Im confused though by "Special needs of RVs"? The majority need either a 30 amp receptacle at 120 volts or 50 amps at 240 volts. Each receptacle is labelled for voltage and current requirements, as well as what wire goes where. Hooking them up wrong is laziness and an inability to read the directions. They see a receptacle other than a 15 amp duplex and assume it must be 240 volt. There's no magical RV needs, just the correct power to them.

[mmartin_tdc]

I suspect the unwitting electricians have wired up many dryer outlets, which are 240, that look just like the 30amp 120, that RV's use. But yes, if they read instructions and are using the correct 30amp outlet, it would solve their lack of knowledge.

[glen1971]

Originally Posted by mmartin_tdc

I suspect the unwitting electricians have wired up many dryer outlets, which are 240, that look just like the 30amp 120, that RV's use. But yes, if they read instructions and are using the correct 30amp outlet, it would solve their lack of knowledge.

Exactly!!