New Shore Power Receptacle Install Question

[pmsherman]

The first thing you need to do is to go to your local administrative office and talk to the department that handles building permits. While there, explain what you want to do and have them verify if you can legally do it yourself or are required to hire a licensed electrician. Ask them what permits are required and, for underground wiring, what the minimum depth to bury cable is, and what inspections (yes - plural) are required. Verify with them what electrical pipe is required for the above ground portions. This is likely to be Schedule 80 pipe but may be Schedule 40. Check if you'll be required to install grounding rod(s) at the new post. You need to know all of these things even if you hire an electrician to do the work so you can verify that it's being done to meet local codes.

I suspect that it's not legal to have two 50A outlets on a single 50A breaker which means that you will need to remove the existing one. The suggestion to get a commercial 50/30/20A box for your new location is an excellent recommendation. Don't forget that all metal electrical boxes must be grounded. Your current outlet box is most likely fed with 8ga wire but it could be 6ga if it's a long run to the breaker box. I'd be very leery about connecting two (or 3 with one smaller one for the box ground) wires this size using wire nuts. The wires, including the NEC minimum amount of wire in the box and the nuts must all fit in the box which must also have a waterproof cover installed.

I'm not a licensed electrician. I did a complete replacement of the distribution circuit breaker/fuse boxes (4) in my house after obtaining the appropriate permit. I also did a full rewiring of my free standing garage, including an underground feed to it, after a falling tree branch destroyed the original knob and tube feed wires to the garage. When my garage work was inspected to close out the permit, the inspector passed the work after I moved one junction box that was an inch too close to the outside wall. It was easy to move the box so he could sign off on the work. I also assisted, in New Mexico, installing distribution boxes between transformers and multiple buildings. NM electrical codes override portions of the NEC, requiring grounding where the NEC doesn't. Grounding requirements in NM are also more stringent than what's required in the NEC.




Phil

[SailorSam20500]

As mentioned earlier, if I was doing this, I would specify the 50,30,20 box. They are available from Home Depot and Lowes.
Also be very explicit on this being for an RV and the 30 amp is 120 volts not 240 as are L1 and L2 to neutral on the 50 amp. Consider giving the electrician some of the wiring diagrams available on this site...

I just pulled into Travelers World RV Resort in San Antonio. I was happy to see that I had what looked to be a brand new pedestal. UNTIL I plugged in my tester. 30 amp Had 238 volts. I plugged in my 50-30 adapter and the 30 amp leg also registered 238 volts... Campground manager called the electrician back to fix it and made me move to a new site. Could have been expensive for him and ruined our 10 day stay, not to mention the long drive home to Michigan.

[nayther]

Originally Posted by sdfarmer

After 50 years as a master electrician, I will be glad to offer you the best advice I can provide.

HIRE A LICENSED ELECTRICIAN!!!!

In reading the question, this was my first thought as well. From the way the questions are asked it is apparent that the OP really does not know the first thing about this process. Not to discourage anyone from a DIY project (lord knows I've jumped in over my head a time or ten) but this has the potential of being dangerous to man and/or machine.

[camper_Lucy]

Originally Posted by glen1971

Easiest would to extend all 4 wires, connect them color for color and position for position on the relocated receptacle. As for the rest of the electrical side, hire an electrician. If you are changing to a 30 amp receptacle, they'll know exactly what to, and how to do it safely.
As for Flamingos, have you tried a Dollarstore or Walmart?

Maybe or Maybe not, you are adding about 30 feet of electric cable distance, not knowing the distance from the current electric panel to the existing box, you may have to upgrade the entire run to a larger gage wire? If so a sub panel and 30AMP service may be the better option.

Again I am not an Electrician by trade, and would agree with others I would hire one.

[Tom48]

Originally Posted by NavyLCDR

Not always. There have been multiple reports on this forum (and just about any RV forum) of licensed electricians wiring an RV 30 amp receptacle for 240 volts and burning up owners' converters in the RVs.

I agree. The outlet that we use for 30 amp looks a lot like a 240 volt outlet for something like a stove or a dryer and you've got to be very careful that the person installing it understands that it has to be installed as a 120 volt outlet only.

As for the other comments you don't necessarily need a professional electrician if you take the time to learn how it has to be done and then do it correctly.

That said technically this would require a permit in most jurisdictions and in some states I know that you probably can't get a permit for it unless you're a licensed electrician

[Vibe101]

>As for the other comments you don't necessarily need a professional electrician if you take the time to learn how it has to be done and then do it correctly.

That is precisely what I am doing here. There is a great deal of knowledge and helpful people here and I am grateful for the advice!!!

I have designed and installed a dual, independent (can be tied together with a bus tie) electrical system in an experimental airplane using this exact same process...study...ask questions from knowledgeable people on a forum...study...repeat. The electrical system that I installed in the airplane is safe and reliable and the professional who inspected it even commented at how professional the installation was. So yes working with any electrical system is dangerous and it can be accomplished safely when risks are mitigated.


THANKS you all for the great advice.

OK so I will will stick with 50 AMP all the way...excellent advice!


>As mentioned earlier, if I was doing this, I would specify the 50,30,20 box. They are available from Home Depot and Lowes.
Also be very explicit on this being for an RV and the 30 amp is 120 volts not 240 as are L1 and L2 to neutral on the 50 amp. Consider giving the electrician some of the wiring diagrams available on this site...

Also great idea!!!

So I will remove the existing 50 Amp outlet and then purchase a 50/30/20 box for the new location.

Now the question is how do I connect the new wires to the existing terminated wires at the old box location? I have to buy a new box so is there a metal box specifically designed for this project?

Thanks again for the positive advice!!!

[CHICKDOE]

Disclaimer!

I am not an electrician!

As far as joining to the existing wires, first thing I would do is use an on-line wire gauge, amperage, distance calculator to verify that the exiting wires will support the extended distance. If they won’ then run new wire of sufficient capacity.

Assuming the existing wires are sufficient there appear tho be numerous types of connectors on-line that are made for joining wires. You’ll need to know the wire gauge in order to get connectors of the proper size. Many of the connectors are butt connectors, some are crimp on, some seem to have a tightening screw to hold the cable in the connector. Another option might be terminal lugs attached to a terminal strip. I’m sure there are multiple methods.

Again I am not an electrician so don’t take this as gospel. Even the people you are going to buy the new pedestal from might have some suggestions.

[JimM2109S]

Originally Posted by Vibe101

Now the question is how do I connect the new wires to the existing terminated wires at the old box location? I have to buy a new box so is there a metal box specifically designed for this project?

Thanks again for the positive advice!!!

Why not just leave the 50a receptacle where it is, and connect the additional wire run using the same lugs that the existing wires are connected to. If the lug connectors are of the screw and clamp style, doing so should not present an issue. This is commonly done with 15 and 20a household circuits when daisy chaining receptacles on a circuit.

[glen1971]

Originally Posted by JimM2109S

Why not just leave the 50a receptacle where it is, and connect the additional wire run using the same lugs that the existing wires are connected to. If the lug connectors are of the screw and clamp style, doing so should not present an issue. This is commonly done with 15 and 20a household circuits when daisy chaining receptacles on a circuit.

Even to splice the existing wires at the original receptacle and pigtail short leads onto the receptacle would work. Extending the circuit and adding another 50 amp receptacle may cause grief, if the OP tries to power two larger RVs at the same time.

[PodGeek]

Originally Posted by SailorSam20500

...I just pulled into Travelers World RV Resort in San Antonio. I was happy to see that I had what looked to be a brand new pedestal. UNTIL I plugged in my tester. 30 amp Had 238 volts. I plugged in my 50-30 adapter and the 30 amp leg also registered 238 volts... Campground manager called the electrician back to fix it and made me move to a new site. Could have been expensive for him and ruined our 10 day stay, not to mention the long drive home to Michigan.

And so many people on forums like this say "I don't need no stinkin' tester for the power pedestal...been camping for years and never had a problem."

Well, ok, go for it. I always test. Always.

[pmsherman]

Originally Posted by Vibe101

>
......
Now the question is how do I connect the new wires to the existing terminated wires at the old box location? I have to buy a new box so is there a metal box specifically designed for this project?

Thanks again for the positive advice!!!

Your current box is an outside box that's exposed to the elements. If your local codes permit it, it may be simpler to get a plastic box with weatherproof connectors for the wires entering and leaving the box.

My preference for connectors for this size wire would be tubular crimp connectors. Whatever type of connector is used, I'd place a full load on the circuit for at least 10 minutes and check the joint using a non-contact infrared thermometer. Any temperature reading that's elevated above a similar rise in the wire is an indication of potential future problems.

The NEC recommends (not mandates) a maximum voltage drop of 3% in a branch circuit. Your 50A RV outlet should be looked at as two separate 120V circuits since very few RVs have 220V appliances. If you follow this recommendation, 8ga wire from the breaker box will allow a maximum of 80' from the breaker to the outlet. This also assumes that the existing wire is copper, not aluminum. Your RV's cord will add some additional distance to this with a bit more voltage drop. This distance calculation was done using an online voltage drop calculator with a 50A load. Your current 30A load would allow a longer wire run but, if at some future date, a 50A RV was to use the new outlet, there could be low voltage issues at full load.




Phil

[Vibe101]

>If you follow this recommendation, 8ga wire from the breaker box will allow a maximum of 80' from the breaker to the outlet. This also assumes that the existing wire is copper, not aluminum.

Good information...THANKS Phil

When I installed the existing outlet I used AWG 4 copper THHN THWN so this new installation will work good.

[Danhikeski]

Originally Posted by sdfarmer

After 50 years as a master electrician, I will be glad to offer you the best advice I can provide.

HIRE A LICENSED ELECTRICIAN!!!!

I second this.

[gw1800]

Originally Posted by caper

Why not purchase the same post campgrounds use. It will have a 50 amp, 30 amp and 20 amp receptacle on it. Then it would be the simple task of running the appropriate wires to the new box. You will have s dedicated 30 amp with a 30 amp breaker, a 50 amp if needed in the future and a 20 amp all with their own breaker right on the post.

Best way to do it. That way no changing house breakers since the 30 amp will will have it's own breaker. You will also have a 50 amp receptacle in case you get a bigger trailer. Plus the addition of the 20 amp receptacle if you want to use a compressor.

No adapters needed.

[Freebird2020]

If your current 50 Amp box has the room, you could just parallel the new wires and use some DryConn connectors for the wire connections.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/DryConn-...2324/202889880

Or run your new wire to the connection point of where the other 50 amp outlet was and put a blank in it's place. You may need to fabricate one.

I would probably run the conduit at least 24" below grade. I think I would go with liquid tite or equivalent conduit to prevent water intrusion. Expensive but good stuff.

Or put in a 60 AMP fused disconnect with 50 amp or smaller fuses. They are cheap.

Good luck.

[TwoKozy]

Go with the multiplex pedestal. 50-30-20 receptacles with individual breakers.
Hire a Licensed, Union(IBEW) electrician that was trained properly to 'do it right the first time.'