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07-30-2018, 09:19 PM
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 133
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Where can you buy a RV parking spot?
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07-31-2018, 07:30 AM
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 354
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Lots of places, just search RV lots for sale.
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2016 Wildwood 32BHDS
2004 F-250 CC 4X4 V10
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08-02-2018, 08:57 PM
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#23
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myredracer
By code (NEC) there needs to be a ground wire back to the source (panel feeding the feeder or circuit). If there is ever a short to ground, there needs to be a return ground path so the breaker in the source panel will trip. A ground rod only at a pedestal is not permitted. Correct grounding is a serious safety concern. You need to talk to the property owner and if they won't do anything, I talk to the local AHJ. Very unusual that there would be no ground conductor.
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Thanks for your input Myredracer, commenting as General Contractor, you're are correct that there needs to be a dedicated ground back to the main panel. However each subpanel should also have it's own dedicated ground (grounding rod etc.) . So all panels need to be grounded and connected. I definitely believe in my Progressive Surge protector.
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08-02-2018, 09:31 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Mount Laurel, New Jersey
Posts: 9,230
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X2!
__________________
2012 SunSeeker 3100SS Toad-1962 Futura Average 100 + days camping
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08-02-2018, 09:58 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Pensacola, FL
Posts: 1,645
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Having a grounding rod at the pedestal is not recommended, although it is permitted. In the unlikely event of having a failure of the required grounding conductor that leads back to the main panel AND a fault between the Hot Leg and the grounding conductor connected to the rod, it will create a potential gradient in the earth around the rod that can approach full line voltage.
Reference:
Mike Holt, Professional National Electrical Code Instructor.
https://youtu.be/qNZC782SzAQ SEE 3:25 to 5:00
https://youtu.be/3vvvv5QVZoA SEE 19:20 to 22:30
__________________
2019 Coachmen Freedom Express 192RBS
2015 T12RBST Flagstaff Hardside
Disclaimer: The actual value of my "Two Cents" of advice varies just like a bitcoin.
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08-02-2018, 10:02 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camper Al
Thanks for your input Myredracer, commenting as General Contractor, you're are correct that there needs to be a dedicated ground back to the main panel. However each subpanel should also have it's own dedicated ground (grounding rod etc.) . So all panels need to be grounded and connected. I definitely believe in my Progressive Surge protector.
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I'm not enough of a code expert but the subpanel MAY not need a grounding rod because it is not a structure, it also COULD possibly be grounded to the water service that is often in close proximity. It also may depend on whether it is considered a branch circuit or not. I got curious when you posted this and started looking at the Mike Holt forum and the debate there pretty quickly devolved into a pissing match. So I guess maybe it just comes down to the local jurisdiction because these guys were citing all different codes from the NEC.
__________________
Travel Trailer: 2004 Flagstaff 25LB
New Tow Vehicle: 2017 F-150 3.5 Ecoboost, supercrew short bed FX4 Lariat
Old Tow Vehicle: 2009 Silverado 2500HD 4x4 Ext. Cab Short Bed
Travel Pooch:Sophie the Sato - Cats: Rhody and Hazy
2018:22nights / 2019:31Nights / 2020:18Nights
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08-03-2018, 08:46 AM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 9,574
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We have certainly diverged...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Towed
I'm not enough of a code expert but the subpanel MAY not need a grounding rod because it is not a structure, it also COULD possibly be grounded to the water service that is often in close proximity.
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We have certainly diverged from the original question, which seems to have been a misunderstanding about grounding provisions in metal boxes. But as long as we're wondering around, I can't help observing that water service has been run in (non-conductive) plastic pipe for the last forty years.
Larry
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08-03-2018, 01:44 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Langley, BC
Posts: 903
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There has been a lot of debate about the use of ground rods at pedestals by electrical professionals for a very long time and whether it's a good thing or not. The 2017 edition of the NEC has been amended to allow ground electrodes at pedestals, but are not required. A ground conductor is still required all the way back to the main source panel. A summary of the grounding change and other changes is on this website: https://ez-pdh.ez-pdh.com/course-mat...ges-Part-3.pdf
The required or allowable grounding is all well and good, but as many of us know, electrical systems in CGs can be in horrendous condition and connections can be corroded to heck and gone or even damaged somewhere under the ground. I've seen wiring so bad sometimes you wonder how it's still working, and have even seen open boxes with live wires inside.
Because of how bad a condition wiring & connections can get, I have to think a ground rod at each pedestal isn't such a bad idea.
Our EMS has only cut us off once due to an open ground. The office sent their electrician/all-purpose handyman over to check and he said it couldn't possibly be bad because he had just replaced the 30 amp recept. No amount of me trying to explain the issue and the seriousness of it was working so we moved to another section that had a brand new all 50 amp upgrade. Then later the CG manager told me she saw the workers putting bare wires into the ground (no conduit or jacketted cable).
If you come across an atrocious looking pedestal like this one, you've gotta wonder how bad the grounding is, if it works at all. Also, 20 amp GFCIs had been removed in the 300+ site CG (code violation in itself). Had to use a stick to keep our plug from falling out. Zero maintenance...
__________________
Gil & Deb & Dougal the Springer Spaniel
Langley, BC
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08-03-2018, 02:17 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry-NC
We have certainly diverged from the original question, which seems to have been a misunderstanding about grounding provisions in metal boxes. But as long as we're wondering around, I can't help observing that water service has been run in (non-conductive) plastic pipe for the last forty years.
Larry
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Thank you, I had intended to mention that as a possibility as well
__________________
Travel Trailer: 2004 Flagstaff 25LB
New Tow Vehicle: 2017 F-150 3.5 Ecoboost, supercrew short bed FX4 Lariat
Old Tow Vehicle: 2009 Silverado 2500HD 4x4 Ext. Cab Short Bed
Travel Pooch:Sophie the Sato - Cats: Rhody and Hazy
2018:22nights / 2019:31Nights / 2020:18Nights
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08-09-2018, 06:23 PM
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#30
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 93
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And the ground wire and screws shall be green in color...
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08-09-2018, 06:46 PM
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#31
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 19
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The white wire is the low/ ground side of the system. As long as you maintaine the correct polarity, you will be ok.
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08-09-2018, 08:14 PM
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#32
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Northport, AL
Posts: 71
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If you are getting 120 volts from hot to ground, you are grounded somewhere, the pedestal itself may be grounded, did you get 120 volts before you added the ground wire then the pedestal is grounded. Probably need an electrician to see what needs to be done to meet local code. The neutral wire should be white, hot black or red, ground green or bare.
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08-09-2018, 11:26 PM
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#33
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Just as confused as you
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: south central Wisconsin
Posts: 5,108
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Are you turning off the power to the pedestal before you go inside to connect the ground wires to the outlets? If not, then why are you working inside the pedestal while it's hot? Surprised nobody brought this up earlier.
__________________
Richard & Jill
2014 Flagstaff 832IKBS Classic Super Lite
2018 Silverado 1500 Crew Cab Z71 4WD All Star Edition
Camping since 1989, Seasonal since 2000.
Car Shredder Op/Tech, Scrap Metal Recycling - retired
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