Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-19-2018, 03:09 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
BuzzWolfAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Mountain Home, Arkansas
Posts: 509
Running 50 amp circuit Need Expertise

We are putting a 50 amp circuit at the end of our driveway for the Cedar Creek 29ik. It runs on a 50 amp circuit. I have a progressive ems 50 amp PTX, I think it is.

The sticker on the fifth wheel says 120/240v, 4 wire and the EMS on the outside where the plug is says 240v. I KNOW the unit runs with 120volt, two hots, common neutral and one ground.

My electrician who is a certified electrician has never done a 50 amp circuit for an RV before, and keeps saying he can run 240volt. I need an electrician who has done these to respond so my guy is clear on how to run this. I don't know the language and am afraid to pull drawing off the internet, as there is so much bad stuff our there.


Please give me something I can print and give to him so we don't screw this one up. Thanks in advance.
__________________
Buzz & Jo Wolf
5er: 2018 Cedar Creek 29ik
TV: 2014 F350 Diesel

BuzzWolfAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 03:24 PM   #2
Head Rambler
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Southwest Alabama
Posts: 8,424
In the U.S. the standard residential split phase power is 120/240 volts. Your RV is the same. Any certified electrician will be very familiar with how that connects. The wires will be L1 (hot), L2 (hot), Neutral & Ground. The receptacle is a 14-50R and it has terminals X,Y,W,G. X is L1, Y is L2, W is Neutral & G is Ground.

There's not nearly as much confusion about how to hook up a 50 amp service as there is for 30 amp RV service.
__________________
Salem 29RKSS Pushing a GMC Sierra 2500HD!
Gotta go campin!
Bama Rambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 03:25 PM   #3
...far N Georgia!
 
formerFR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Hiawassee, GA!
Posts: 3,164
don't rely on this forum for professional electrical advise, as your own electrician is the final word on what you need, HE's the one wiring it!....if he's never 'done it' before, seek another electrician. It's not complicated.
__________________

The Turners...
'14 Thor Palazzo 33.3 compact diesel 100k+miles since '14... US, Alaska, Canada...
AND a '14 Gulfstream Amerlite
AND a '07 ForestRIver Rockwood : )
formerFR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 03:28 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,179
Unless your living in it I just see no need to run a 50A circuit. 30 A will allow you to run one AC.
BTW search online for a correct 50A RV wiring diagram. It is a 30A and a 20A 120VAC system.
donniedu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 03:28 PM   #5
Who Dares, Wins
 
doc73's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Chester County, PA
Posts: 6,644
Quote:
Originally Posted by formerFR View Post
don't rely on this forum for professional electrical advise, as your own electrician is the final word on what you need, HE's the one wiring it!....if he's never 'done it' before, seek another electrician. It's not complicated.
Yeah right... But I agree 50 is much easier than the 30amp hookup... How many posts do we get at the start of the year for fried trailers from 240 30amp outlets wired by the electrician "friend"
__________________

Pat, Jen, Heather & Sapphire, the head mouser.
2015 ChevyHD D-Max
2018 Artic Wolf 315tbh8
doc73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 03:32 PM   #6
...far N Georgia!
 
formerFR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Hiawassee, GA!
Posts: 3,164
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by donniedu View Post
Unless your living in it I just see no need to run a 50A circuit. 30 A will allow you to run one AC.
BTW search online for a correct 50A RV wiring diagram. It is a 30A and a 20A 120VAC system.


SO incorrect!!!

50amp RV service is a double-pole 50amp TWO hot lines to the coach, for a total of 100amps.... this is why you need a PROFESSIONAL electrician, don't let anyone on this forum 'give' you or him 'wiring' advice!


Once you get it installed, though, you realize how much more power 50amp service is over typical 30amp rv service is... it's 70amps more!

enjoy
__________________

The Turners...
'14 Thor Palazzo 33.3 compact diesel 100k+miles since '14... US, Alaska, Canada...
AND a '14 Gulfstream Amerlite
AND a '07 ForestRIver Rockwood : )
formerFR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 03:35 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Orlando
Posts: 679
The difference between say a residential stove and your rv is the stove is wired with 2 hots and ground. The rv needs 2 hots, a neutral and ground. While the full 220 is applied to the stove the rv is 2 120 circuits.
__________________
2018 Silverado 3500 Duramax DRW
2019 Grand Design Reflection 312BHTS
Brewhedd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 03:37 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
BuzzWolfAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Mountain Home, Arkansas
Posts: 509
Quote:
Originally Posted by donniedu View Post
Unless your living in it I just see no need to run a 50A circuit. 30 A will allow you to run one AC.
BTW search online for a correct 50A RV wiring diagram. It is a 30A and a 20A 120VAC system.
Even I know that is BS. The first response sataisfied my electrician. We are good. Thank you for the quick responses.

I want the 50 amp so I can run the air while packing for trips.
__________________
Buzz & Jo Wolf
5er: 2018 Cedar Creek 29ik
TV: 2014 F350 Diesel

BuzzWolfAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 03:45 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Iggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 7,835
BuzzWolfAR
I'm a Journey level electrician.
Just show him this picture of the RV Female plug and tell him to wire it up as per the plug doucnments.
2 separate 120 volts phases . It sometime called 208 v or some say 220 volt.
Your residential only has 208volts from phase to phase.

1 White neutral
1 Green Ground.
I would ask minimum #6 thhn wire size

Tell him this is not a 50 amp stove outlet but a specific 50 amp RV receptacle.
Good luck
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Z1rL9xmcpEx_.jpg
Views:	461
Size:	45.0 KB
ID:	176549  
__________________
2012 Georgetown XL 378TS
FB Georgetown RV Club
Iggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 03:58 PM   #10
...far N Georgia!
 
formerFR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Hiawassee, GA!
Posts: 3,164
you can run the air without full 50amp service regardless
formerFR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 04:12 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
BuzzWolfAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Mountain Home, Arkansas
Posts: 509
Quote:
Originally Posted by formerFR View Post
you can run the air without full 50amp service regardless
Yes, I can run them, just can't start them.
__________________
Buzz & Jo Wolf
5er: 2018 Cedar Creek 29ik
TV: 2014 F350 Diesel

BuzzWolfAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 04:17 PM   #12
D W
Senior Member
 
D W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: ALASKA (World's Biggest Campground)
Posts: 2,509
I'm shaking my head here. What kind of a "certified electrician" doesn't know how to wire a NEMA 14-50 receptacle? UNBELIEVABLE!!!
__________________
'07 K3500 Silverado LT Crew Duramax (LBZ)
2016 Salem 27RKSS
1984 CHEV SCOTTSDALE K20 2GCGK24J0E1XXXXXX (Chevrolet Legends-Class of 2019)
"...exhaust fluid? We don't need no stinkin' exhaust fluid"
D W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 04:32 PM   #13
Who Dares, Wins
 
doc73's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Chester County, PA
Posts: 6,644
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzWolfAR View Post
Yes, I can run them, just can't start them.
You'd be able to run one... But if you have the extra $$ why not.
__________________

Pat, Jen, Heather & Sapphire, the head mouser.
2015 ChevyHD D-Max
2018 Artic Wolf 315tbh8
doc73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 04:38 PM   #14
Site Team
 
wmtire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Northeast Louisiana
Posts: 24,457
One of my favorite websites for RV electric has "printable" pdf files for wiring 30 amp and 50 amp outlets.

Just go here, and click on the appropriate service tab (in this case 50 amp) It will have a link where you can print out how to wire the outlet.

This is the site where we got the 30 amp wiring pdf we keep in the FAQ section.

RV Electric

From what I have read in this thread, there is still a lot of misconception on what a 50 amp RV service is. It will be explained in the link above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzWolfAR View Post
Please give me something I can print and give to him so we don't screw this one up. Thanks in advance.
Here is a direct link to that printable pdf file if you like:

http://www.myrv.us/Imgs/PDF/50-amp%20Service.pdf
__________________
2011 Flagstaff 831 RLBSS

I'm trying to keep up with the Joneses, but every time I catch up, they refinance.
wmtire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 04:51 PM   #15
Site Team
 
wmtire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Northeast Louisiana
Posts: 24,457
On another note, here is one of my other favorite sites I recommend a lot (twice already today) that explains in simple terms what a 50 amp 120/240 split phase service is...as well as the difference between it and a 30 amp 120 volt service.

https://www.rvtechmag.com/electrical/chapter3.php
__________________
2011 Flagstaff 831 RLBSS

I'm trying to keep up with the Joneses, but every time I catch up, they refinance.
wmtire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 04:57 PM   #16
Site Team
 
Flybob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,855
Quote:
Originally Posted by formerFR View Post
don't rely on this forum for professional electrical advise, as your own electrician is the final word on what you need, HE's the one wiring it!....if he's never 'done it' before, seek another electrician. It's not complicated.

Not everyone on todays forums are experts but not all electricians are experts on wiring RV power. NO matter who you use to wire this up, make sure they read Post# 14.
__________________

2015 Freedom Express 248RBS
TV 2015 Silverado HD2500 Duramax
TST Tire Monitors
Honda 2000I + Companion
2 100W solar panels
Flybob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 05:36 PM   #17
D W
Senior Member
 
D W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: ALASKA (World's Biggest Campground)
Posts: 2,509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewhedd View Post
The difference between say a residential stove and your rv is the stove is wired with 2 hots and ground. The rv needs 2 hots, a neutral and ground. While the full 220 is applied to the stove the rv is 2 120 circuits.
These days, many of your high-end ranges require the NEMA 14-50 configuration as opposed to the standard 3 prong NEMA 10-50.
__________________
'07 K3500 Silverado LT Crew Duramax (LBZ)
2016 Salem 27RKSS
1984 CHEV SCOTTSDALE K20 2GCGK24J0E1XXXXXX (Chevrolet Legends-Class of 2019)
"...exhaust fluid? We don't need no stinkin' exhaust fluid"
D W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 05:42 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
BuzzWolfAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Mountain Home, Arkansas
Posts: 509
Really appreciate the help. Post 14 was excellent, have printed it for my electrician.
__________________
Buzz & Jo Wolf
5er: 2018 Cedar Creek 29ik
TV: 2014 F350 Diesel

BuzzWolfAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2018, 06:03 AM   #19
Site Team - Lou
 
Herk7769's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 22,814
Quote:
Originally Posted by donniedu View Post
Unless your living in it I just see no need to run a 50A circuit. 30 A will allow you to run one AC.
BTW search online for a correct 50A RV wiring diagram. It is a 30A and a 20A 120VAC system.
To understand the relationship between voltage and current is not "overly" complicated, so bear with me.

As many have stated previously, a 50 amp wired coach has what is called a "split phase" 50 amp 120 VAC service. The 220 VAC supply panel is "split" with 120 VAC L1 on one side and 120 VAC on L2 on the other, with a "Neutral" that is common to both circuits.

Alternating Current (AC) means that the direction of the current alternates between the "hots" (L1 or L2) every 1/60th of a second (called 60 cycle AC).

Voltage measured between L1 and L2 would be 220 volts AC with the direction of flow alternating between the two.

When a Neutral is used, the source phased voltage is "split" in the middle with 120 volts AC available on each (L1 and L2 when measured relative to the Neutral).

Then, every 1/60th of a second, when voltage between on L1 is "positive", the Neutral becomes the return path for that leg of the circuit. Concurrently, it ALSO becomes the "positive" for the L2 120 volt current flowing through to the L2 side ("negative" if you will). Then 1/60th of a second later everything alternates the other direction from L2 through the Neutral to L1.

Because of this relationship, the identical current is available on both sides of your 120 volt AC panel ALL THE TIME.

How MUCH of the current YOU have available to use is "limited" by the protection that is installed at the source to protect the wiring and equipment being used down stream. That protection, (the circuit breaker), is "Ganged" so that an overload on one leg will trip both legs OFF to protect the Neutral source wire.

Remember that BOTH sides "see" the same available current. If the campground's 50 amp service is wired correctly, each leg will always have 50 amps of service available to be used because it is limited by the campground's pedestal breakers and not for any other reason.

Because of the purpose of your camper's circuit breakers is to prevent circuit current from exceeding the rating of your camper's wires (including your connecting wire from the camper to the pedestal) and your installed equipment (like outlets and direct wired appliances) and not the campgrounds (which is protected by the pedestal breakers).

Remember also that the breaker is there to keep you from exceeding the maximum current that is safe for your wires on each leg. The actual current you are using on each leg is the sum of everything you have turned "on".

You can have 28 amps of stuff on one leg and still have 45 amps of stuff on the other because you can be using a total of 100 amps (just never more than 50 on a side).

Most campground's also have other service connections (sockets) on their service panel (typically a 30 amp and a 20 amp duplex each on their own breaker).

Those sockets can be wired "upstream" of the 50 amp service breaker or "downstream" of the 50 amp breaker depending SOLEY on the campgrounds pedestal service wires!

In order to be wired "upstream", the campground's service wires to the pedestal must be capable of "serving" 100 amps of service to the pedestal. In this case, all the sockets are capable of providing their full rated power without tripping any others.

However, many older campgrounds are wired for only the service rated on that campground's loop. So for the 50 amp loop, the supply wires are sized/rated only to provide 50 amps to each campsite.

In this case, the additional sockets are wired "downstream" of the 50 amp "main" protection breaker. Normally, the 50 amp socket is fed directly from the breaker and another breaker "out" wire takes the L1 and Neutral go to the 30 amp socket and the L2 and Neutral go to the 20 amp Duplex.

You are welcome to use any combination of outlets, provided the total load does not exceed 50 amps on any circuit leg. For this example, if you are using the 50 amp service on your camper and the L1 camper circuit is pulling 40 amps and you connect another extension cord to the 30 amp socket, any attempt to use more than 10 amps will trip the 50 amp campground breaker.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	PowerDistribution3cropped_zps2b3a88c3.jpg
Views:	213
Size:	90.6 KB
ID:	176619   Click image for larger version

Name:	rv-service1.jpg
Views:	1287
Size:	69.0 KB
ID:	176620   Click image for larger version

Name:	Multi Panel.jpg
Views:	207
Size:	64.4 KB
ID:	176621   Click image for larger version

Name:	Water_Tanks_240_V.jpg
Views:	189
Size:	39.4 KB
ID:	176622  
Attached Images
 
__________________
Lou, Laura, & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Crewcab SB Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FLS - Pullrite 3300
HAM CALLSIGN - KC3FFW
Herk7769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2018, 12:46 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Orange Texas
Posts: 764
Send a message via MSN to Tiggerdad
Quote:
Originally Posted by D W View Post
These days, many of your high-end ranges require the NEMA 14-50 configuration as opposed to the standard 3 prong NEMA 10-50.
Same for dryers.
__________________

2013 Crusader 330 MKS
2013 Chevrolet Silverado LT 2500 D/A
Tiggerdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
50 amp

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:12 AM.