Solar and Battery Upgrade Plan Questions and Suggestions

[jhetcel23]

Looking for suggestions and answers to a few questions on upgrading my existing solar and battery setup in my 2022 16BH Geo Pro.

Goals:

• Be able to boondock for 5 days, with no generator use.
• Relocate batteries to the interior of my camper. There is room under the dinette next to the inverter on my model.
• Upgrade to LiFePO4 batteries
• Utilize and add onto existing GoPower 190watt roof mount solar panel
• Size everything to expand in the future

Current Plan:

• Purchase 1 - SOK 206ah Battery, leaving room for 1 additional 206ah Battery to be purchased in the future
• Install a Victron BMV 712 battery monitor
• Install a HQST 190W solar panel, and leave room for additional panel(s) on roof for future expansion
• Purchase a portable "suitcase" solar panel and utilize the solar on the side port (undecided on what size/ brand suitcase)

Estimated 12v amp draws:

• Refrigerator (12v) @ 50-60% duty cycle – 3 Ah * 24 hours = 72 Ah-per day
• Furnace (Suburban NT-20SEQ) – 2.7 Ah * 8 hours = 21.6 Ah-per day
• Water Heater (Suburban) – 12 Ah * 0.5 hours = 6 Ah-per day
• Water Pump – 4 Ah * 0.5 hours = 2 Ah-per day
• Go Power Solar Charge Controller – 0.016 Ah * 24 hours = 0.38 Ah-per day
• Max Fan (low) – 1.5 Ah * 1 hours = 1.5 Ah-per day
• CO/LP Detector – 0.017 Ah * 24 hours = 0.41 Ah-per day
• 5 Lights – 0.2 Ah * 1 hours = 0.2 Ah-per day
• Stereo (iRV 36 4-10amp) – 4 Ah * 2 hours = 8 Ah-per day
• TV (Furrion 22") – 3.25 Ah * 2 hours = 6.5 Ah-per day
• Range Hood – 2.5 Ah * 1 hours = 2.5 Ah-per day
• Victron (Bluetooth) – 0.001 Ah * 24 hours = .024 Ah-per day
• Victron (Display) – 0.004 Ah * 24 hours = .096 Ah-per day

Total Estimated Ah per Day = 121
Thank you @ptrusheim for the amps/hr list in another post

Want to state that I do not plan to use my 1000 watt inverter while boondocking.

If I have a total of 580 watts of solar panels (2 -190 on the roof, and 1- 200 watt suitcase) at 3 peak sun hours per day @ 65% efficiency, I estimated I can restore 90 Ah per day. Assuming that I get the full 90Ah's from solar and use 121Ah's a day, the 1 - 206Ah battery will be around 20% SOC on day 5.


Questions:

1. Does my math make sense?
2. Should I wire the 2 rooftop panels in series, or parallel? I camp in Michigan, lots of shady trees and cloudy days. Hence why I would want a portable on this setup.
3. Should I switch to a MPPT controller for the rooftop panels?
4. If I want to expand the solar on the roof in the future (have room for 2 more panels) should I wire them in a series-parallel configuration?
5. Should I purchase a solar suitcase with a built-in solar controller, or purchase and mount a dedicated controller next to the batteries?
6. Any suggestions/ recommendations?

[chriscowles]

If you have the skills to install all of this yourself, considering building the solar suitcase, as well. Hardware such as hinges and closures are readily available on Amazon and elsewhere.

Full disclosure: I have no experience building one. I planned to but went with fixed-mount, instead.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by jhetcel23

Looking for suggestions and answers to a few questions on upgrading my existing solar and battery setup in my 2022 16BH Geo Pro.



Goals:

• Be able to boondock for 5 days, with no generator use.
  
• Relocate batteries to the interior of my camper. There is room under the dinette next to the inverter on my model.
  
• Upgrade to LiFePO4 batteries
  
• Utilize and add onto existing GoPower 190watt roof mount solar panel
  
• Size everything to expand in the future
  

Current Plan:

• Purchase 1 - SOK 206ah Battery, leaving room for 1 additional 206ah Battery to be purchased in the future
  
• Install a Victron BMV 712 battery monitor
  
• Install a HQST 190W solar panel, and leave room for additional panel(s) on roof for future expansion
  
• Purchase a portable "suitcase" solar panel and utilize the solar on the side port (undecided on what size/ brand suitcase)
  

Estimated 12v amp draws:

• Refrigerator (12v) @ 50-60% duty cycle – 3 Ah * 24 hours = 72 Ah-per day
  
• Furnace (Suburban NT-20SEQ) – 2.7 Ah * 8 hours = 21.6 Ah-per day
  
• Water Heater (Suburban) – 12 Ah * 0.5 hours = 6 Ah-per day
  
• Water Pump – 4 Ah * 0.5 hours = 2 Ah-per day
  
• Go Power Solar Charge Controller – 0.016 Ah * 24 hours = 0.38 Ah-per day
  
• Max Fan (low) – 1.5 Ah * 1 hours = 1.5 Ah-per day
  
• CO/LP Detector – 0.017 Ah * 24 hours = 0.41 Ah-per day
  
• 5 Lights – 0.2 Ah * 1 hours = 0.2 Ah-per day
  
• Stereo (iRV 36 4-10amp) – 4 Ah * 2 hours = 8 Ah-per day
  
• TV (Furrion 22") – 3.25 Ah * 2 hours = 6.5 Ah-per day
  
• Range Hood – 2.5 Ah * 1 hours = 2.5 Ah-per day
  
• Victron (Bluetooth) – 0.001 Ah * 24 hours = .024 Ah-per day
  
• Victron (Display) – 0.004 Ah * 24 hours = .096 Ah-per day
  

Total Estimated Ah per Day = 121

Thank you @ptrusheim for the amps/hr list in another post

Want to state that I do not plan to use my 1000 watt inverter while boondocking.



If I have a total of 580 watts of solar panels (2 -190 on the roof, and 1- 200 watt suitcase) at 3 peak sun hours per day @ 65% efficiency, I estimated I can restore 90 Ah per day. Assuming that I get the full 90Ah's from solar and use 121Ah's a day, the 1 - 206Ah battery will be around 20% SOC on day 5.





Questions:

1. Does my math make sense?
   
2. Should I wire the 2 rooftop panels in series, or parallel? I camp in Michigan, lots of shady trees and cloudy days. Hence why I would want a portable on this setup.
   
3. Should I switch to a MPPT controller for the rooftop panels?
   
4. If I want to expand the solar on the roof in the future (have room for 2 more panels) should I wire them in a series-parallel configuration?
   
5. Should I purchase a solar suitcase with a built-in solar controller, or purchase and mount a dedicated controller next to the batteries?
   
6. Any suggestions/ recommendations?
   

Your math seems realistic.

A little pessimistic perhaps on solar production. That of course will depend on where and when you are camping.

As for your portable solar setup, right now Renogy is selling a 200w kit including controller for ~$385. Several years ago I built a similar setup and when tallying up the costs for panels, controller, wire, hardware, I saved very little. Consudering time involved in rounding up parts and pieces, along with my labor, if Renogy had the same price back then would have just bought the ready made kit.

With the proposed rooftop setup your portable will need it's own controller which can be mounted inside and left connected to the batteries. Just "plug in" portables as desired.

The portable will be a great addition to rooftop panel charging when they are shaded yet you can still reach a patch of sun.

FWIW I'll share my recent experience with my current 240w portable panel kit, 200ah lifepo4 battery bank, 2kw Inverter, and 2-way refer.

I spent 14 days in January at Quartzsite. Half the time with overcast. During that time the furnace ran at night, I used the microwave several times a day, and watched movies at night. During that time I never ran my generator as the panels took care of my total electrical needs.

Point being, smaller panels pointed at the sun can produce more power than one might expect, even during overcast days.

Here's a graph showing solar production for that period. With your roofop panels you could easily see twice or more production.

(Note: bright part of graph's bars are Bulk charge rate and lighter are absorption and float. Peak was 1400 wh with daily average ~700 wh. Just divide wh by 13 v if you are more interested in amp hours.)

[bikendan]

Moved thread from the General Community Discussion section to the Electrical, Charging Systems and Solar sub-forum since the OP's questions are specific to that sub-forum and not general questions.

[Aussieguy]

another fan for portable panels
not hard to do purchase parts from hardware store to make some sort of leg/tilt mechanism


source some used panels if your nice news ones.. go on walkabout.



https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...ml#post2831456

[jhetcel23]

Thank you all for the suggestions on the portable panel setups. I am leaning more toward what TitanMike suggested on purchasing a already built kit that is more or less plug and play.

TitanMike - appreciate the real world example. I see that the renogy portable 200 Watt is now on sale at ~$330, so even cheaper. Also, on the graph you showed, is this from a victron smart solar controller?

Anyone have recommendations on my other questions on what way to wire the rooftop panels, and if I should switch to a MPPT controller over the PWM factory unit?

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by jhetcel23

Thank you all for the suggestions on the portable panel setups. I am leaning more toward what TitanMike suggested on purchasing a already built kit that is more or less plug and play.

TitanMike - appreciate the real world example. I see that the renogy portable 200 Watt is now on sale at ~$330, so even cheaper. Also, on the graph you showed, is this from a victron smart solar controller?

Anyone have recommendations on my other questions on what way to wire the rooftop panels, and if I should switch to a MPPT controller over the PWM factory unit?

Yes, the graph is from my Victron Smart Solar Controller. The controller stores the last 30 days of power output and it's a nice tool to monitor the system.

As for MPPT vs PWM, my portable panels are wired in series and the controller is MPPT. Since shading is pretty much a non-issue as I can place them where they get full sun this is the best method.

For rooftop setups where shading could be an issue then parallel connection is generally preferred. I still prefer MPPT controllers over PWM due to their greater efficiency. Since you are considering multiple rooftop panels I would consider going with an even number and connect them in a series/parallel configuration. This will maximize the power output by mitigating (somewhat) any shading issues (that aren't already handled by the bypass diodes in the panel's junction box).

FWIW, if one is planning on their solar panels providing all their electrical needs it's rather counter intuitive to park in the shade

If unavoidable due to wooded campsites then more portable capability with long power cords from panels to controller is highly recommended.

[RedRoverComeOver]

Have a '21 G16BH and mostly boondock with OEM 190W roof panel and 200W suitcase(s). Longest trip was 6 days and every trip the last couple of seasons had rain; some more than others and mostly camp in wooded areas.

The worst trip was when the dealer-installed flooded batteries died after the 2nd night. It rained on the way there and didn't stop until we were on the way home on the 4th day. Didn't help we were in a heavily shaded area and the Renogy panel decided to fail in less than a year. Customer service experience was horrible and wound up with two 100W panels since they don't appear to have parts for the Eclipse series (not same ones mentioned here.) Having issues with those now but haven't had time to troubleshoot. I'd recommend one larger panel over two since it's less of a PiTA. Had to get a negative ground controller for the suitcase since a positive ground caused issues. Have 20 and 30ft. wiring for the suitcase and been times where the latter one wasn't long enough. Mountain/forest camping is what is close since we're not sand people. We also throw in some beach camping but not having AC is bothersome at times.

Been reluctant adding another panel on the roof since there really isn't enough room for a good location. The only spot I'd attempt is next to the other one but it gets shadow by the AC unit (there goes the series theory.) Ideally I'd like it on the opposite side to get something during the day depending on the orientation, but there isn't room. The only other place it could fit is across the front but you're not supposed to bend them more than 30° and too much surface on the leading edge. The bigger problem is below from GP solar panel install guide:

• Solar panels should be located a minimum of 3’ from the front of RV to reduce wind load on the panels.

I went with two 100Ah Enduro batteries since they fit in the OEM battery box. You can get the 200Ah model and still fit in the battery box. The unit has little storage space and using it for batteries isn't an option for me. Took out the rear fridge for storage and still thinking about removing the convection microwave when I'm bored enough to figure out a door solution for that space; currently use the inside of it for storage.

https://www.enduropowerbatteries.com...baja-12v-200ah

[jhetcel23]

Thank you all for the replies. Going to stick with my plan of adding 1 roof top panel wired in parallel, and will keep the go power pwm controller for now. And will utilize a portable setup to capture the most sun where I typically camp.

Thanks again.

[jbflag21ds]

I can't see the water heater using 12Ah to run on LP if its not an on-demand unit.

More blankets and warmer clothes can cut down on furnace use.

MPPT is more efficient but PWM should be fine for the 380W on the roof. Once you add the two other panels, moving to an MPPT SCC would be better and a 2S2P wiring setup. For now parallel will be fine. FYI, my 4x100W panels are in parallel and working great for me.

I setup a 3400W dual fuel generator to run off the trailer's gas port. If I need to charge the batteries it would be really fast for me, but so far I have only needed it for long A/C runs more than 3 hours. A smaller 2kW unit would be great as a backup charger if needed

[xLOGREx]

Hey there, my names Logan and I live in SLC Utah and I've been a long time viewer of this website but this is my first time interacting with anyone. Sorry to revive a dead thread but I just wanted to thank you for the post and these replies are extremely informative as I'm looking into expanding my solar and battery options.

I bought my 2023 G16BH last fall, camped in it about 4-5 times, and never really had any battery problems. I took it out for the first time this year just a couple weeks ago and couldn't hold any battery to save my life. The only two things I could think of were that I might have messed up the batteries over the winter (letting them die in the cold) or that the 12v mini fridge that was defective last year, replaced this year, was now pegging the battery. I fully charged the batteries when I got home, disconnected them fully, and measured them every day for a few days and they're definitely still holding a good charge. I have two Interstate HD24-DP batteries right now.

I've been wanting to upgrade the battery and solar anyways but this has really pushed my agenda forward. I nearly bought two Lion Energy 100ah batteries from Costco on a super good deal, 2 for $1,150, but ended up not pulling the trigger because that was an online only deal and the store I went to wouldn't price match. I may still purchase them online but since they are the Adventure model, they have slightly lower specs and worse warranty than the UT 1300 model (10 year vs lifetime warranty) so I might just wait for a good deal on those instead. When I upgrade to LiPo4 batteries I will relocate them to the inside of the camper for thermal and theft reasons. I've measured out the inverter cubby and figured that I could probably build a 80/20 frame to hold the batteries above the inverter.

I've been going back and forth on the solar decision but with my limited roof space, and being recommended not to mount anything within 3' of the front of the trailer, I think I've settled on adding only one more 190w Go Power panel on the roof next to the other panel and utilizing my 100w Lion Energy briefcase panel and plug it into the side of the trailer when needed.

Long story short, has anyone else noticed a massive battery life difference with and without using the mini fridge? In the meantime while I ponder these decisions I will turn off the 12v mini fridge and continue one with what I am doing.

[jlankford]

Originally Posted by xLOGREx

... I nearly bought two Lion Energy 100ah batteries from Costco on a super good deal, 2 for $1,150,

That price is NOT a "super good deal" at today's prices. You need to shop around a bit more.

That size fridge will probably use about 25~35 Ah per day on average.

[Aussieguy]

Originally Posted by xLOGREx

Hey there, my names Logan and I live in SLC Utah and I've been a long time viewer of this website but this is my first time interacting with anyone. Sorry to revive a dead thread but I just wanted to thank you for the post and these replies are extremely informative as I'm looking into expanding my solar and battery options.

I bought my 2023 G16BH last fall, camped in it about 4-5 times, and never really had ........

depending on your roof structure you could put panels at the part of the roof where it joins the front cap
Just make sure all screws are secure and you don't strip them out using power tools

You can add extra screws or brackets if you want.
I got oversize panels and opted for extra hold down brackets and screws

for wind... use a front deflector if you are worried
and you could even wire in some stainless safety cable.... if you are worried enough.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
16 foot trailer is certainly limited in roof space
you could place a frame at the rear to make room for some decent panels
maybe even..... blocking the skylight may be a better plan for you, than worrying about loosing some sunlight in the shower... leave enough room to open vent for shower ...

a suitable frame work probably can be cobbled together reasonably easily .
I'm sure there are lots of pictures out there from other people that have already done so.

I would not hesitate to move tall stuff out of the way... (aerials etc)
I would NOT put directly over tank vents unless there is plenty of space around each panel to allow a breeze to disperse any odor


--------------------------------------------------------
BATTERIES
there are plenty of good batteries out there for about $200 - $250 per 100ah
get ones with BLUETOOTH and you can forego any need for an expensive shunt

I got 2 100 ah batteries $400 from Amazon
Have traveled 3000 miles with them and extremely happy with their performance

--------------------------------------------------------------
Fridge .............
my 2 batteries can run the 10 foot 12v fridge for about 60 hours (weekend camping) without needing a charge

If you don't do much more than weekends... get 400ah of battery and charge up when you get home
OR have a small generator you can run for a few hours to charge up the batteries
a little 1000w generator will work
your 120v CONVERTER (battery charger can only charge up at around 55 amps (660w)
you might only need to run the generator 3-4 hours to replenish a 50% depleted battery

[xLOGREx]

Originally Posted by Aussieguy

depending on your roof structure you could put panels at the part of the roof where it joins the front cap
Just make sure all screws are secure and you don't strip them out using power tools

You can add extra screws or brackets if you want.
I got oversize panels and opted for extra hold down brackets and screws

for wind... use a front deflector if you are worried
and you could even wire in some stainless safety cable.... if you are worried enough.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
16 foot trailer is certainly limited in roof space
you could place a frame at the rear to make room for some decent panels
maybe even..... blocking the skylight may be a better plan for you, than worrying about loosing some sunlight in the shower... leave enough room to open vent for shower ...

a suitable frame work probably can be cobbled together reasonably easily .
I'm sure there are lots of pictures out there from other people that have already done so.

I would not hesitate to move tall stuff out of the way... (aerials etc)
I would NOT put directly over tank vents unless there is plenty of space around each panel to allow a breeze to disperse any odor


--------------------------------------------------------
BATTERIES
there are plenty of good batteries out there for about $200 - $250 per 100ah
get ones with BLUETOOTH and you can forego any need for an expensive shunt

I got 2 100 ah batteries $400 from Amazon
Have traveled 3000 miles with them and extremely happy with their performance

--------------------------------------------------------------
Fridge .............
my 2 batteries can run the 10 foot 12v fridge for about 60 hours (weekend camping) without needing a charge

If you don't do much more than weekends... get 400ah of battery and charge up when you get home
OR have a small generator you can run for a few hours to charge up the batteries
a little 1000w generator will work
your 120v CONVERTER (battery charger can only charge up at around 55 amps (660w)
you might only need to run the generator 3-4 hours to replenish a 50% depleted battery

Thank you for the detailed response! These are all amazing inputs, I'll be researching each item for sure.

Last night I did some more roof measuring and I think I found a way I can put 300 more watts of solar on the roof, a 200w panel next to my other one, and 100w between the antenna and shower vent. The only problem is I might hurt the walk way to get past the AC to the front cap. I'm going to consider this a little more or look into adding another 200w panel (facing east-west) on or close to the front cap following your guideline.

Battery-wise, I'm a bit of a nerd about warranty and also trying to support Lion Energy who is local for me. I am curious about cheaper ones though and the longevity/warranty of them.

I do have a 3500w Champion genny that I take with me for running the AC or microwave. On my recent camping trip I used it sparingly because it's a bear for noise but I was surprised at how little the batteries charged up in 1-2 hours of running it. I hear lithium accepts a charge a bit faster.

[xLOGREx]

Originally Posted by jlankford

That price is NOT a "super good deal" at today's prices. You need to shop around a bit more.

That size fridge will probably use about 25~35 Ah per day on average.

Do you have any battery recommendations? I would like something with bluetooth like Aussie suggested.

That makes sense, kind of a lot of energy for what it is used for (100% beer), but if I can improve my energy storage and capture capability then it shouldn't hurt to keep it.

[jlankford]

Originally Posted by xLOGREx

Do you have any battery recommendations? I would like something with bluetooth like Aussie suggested.

That makes sense, kind of a lot of energy for what it is used for (100% beer), but if I can improve my energy storage and capture capability then it shouldn't hurt to keep it.

I've been happy with LiTime batteries. Have had 3 x 100Ah for a year now with no issues. It's a Chinese company, but their customer service / tech support has been very responsive when needed. I can't comment on how well they might handle a warranty claim, but the advertised warranty is 5 years.


Epoch and Renogy would be other good choices. Renogy is a bit higher priced.


Make sure you buy a model with low temperature protection. Heated isn't necessary unless you'll be camping in freezing conditions, but you want the BMS to prevent charging below freezing just in case.

[Aussieguy]

Don't mix 100w and 200w panels together in the same string
It probably won't work as expected

the 100w will drag the 200w down and your overall output will suffer
it is possible if you can match voltages and amps.... you need to know exactly how to do it.

[ppine]

You are in the sweet spot for good working system.

[xLOGREx]

Originally Posted by Aussieguy

Don't mix 100w and 200w panels together in the same string
It probably won't work as expected

the 100w will drag the 200w down and your overall output will suffer
it is possible if you can match voltages and amps.... you need to know exactly how to do it.

That's good to know, thank you! I will just stick with adding 1 more panel of the exact model that I have for now and re-evaluate if I want to add a third later.

*as an edit to my first post, I have a 200w panel. So I will only be adding more 200w GP panels to make sure everything jives. I have a 100w suitcase panel that can plug into the side of my trailer when needed, I'm guessing this too could have a negative effect on the roof panel?

Solar kit that came with TT (my controller looks a little different):
https://gopowersolar.com/products/ov...kit-200-watts/

Suitcase panel:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[xLOGREx]

Originally Posted by Aussieguy

Don't mix 100w and 200w panels together in the same string
It probably won't work as expected

the 100w will drag the 200w down and your overall output will suffer
it is possible if you can match voltages and amps.... you need to know exactly how to do it.

That's good to know, I won't go that route then. I will stick with same size panels I have if I add anymore to my roof.

I misspoke on my original post and I actually have a 200w panel. I'm guessing that if I plug my 100w suitcase panel into the port on the side of my trailer that it will also drag down my roof panels output?