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Old 10-07-2015, 04:34 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by tenttotrailer View Post
I use the 30 amp Progressive Industries, it is how I learned my outside plugs were wired with an open ground, that answered why I was popping fuses in my trailer when plugged into 15 amp. I was lucky it was only fuses that went. Not sure which company is best (TRC, Progressive, Camco etc) but you need something, down to the Ford/GMC/Dodge which is best arguement but you need protection for your investment.

Kevin
I agree with you but lets not get confused, the drop out voltage is still to low to protect your electronics and A/C from long use damage. I have never been in a high voltage situation, if anything it's low being so many people are running there A/C's and if the CG is full. As far as surge protection, If lighting and thunder is around me, I run on 12 volt only. Both are good protection if just to read open grounds or reverse polarity. The only thing that I saw was that the 89.00 unit was low in joules and it will still tell you the same information at the remote unit, without time delay. Remember that the stat is powered by 12v. So as soon as the power comes back on your compressor would try to start which would put you in locked rotor unless the compressor had time to equalize between the high side and low side....I still like the time delay and added Joules, but that 89.00 would protect him...
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Old 10-08-2015, 11:24 AM   #22
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... the drop out voltage is still to low to protect your electronics and A/C from long use damage.
Low voltage is not harmful to any electronics. Low voltage is harmful to motorized appliances.

Voltage can drop so low that incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. Even that voltage is normal for all electronics. Too low for motors. But electronics must work fine and happy when voltage is that low.

Protectors (for a completely different anomaly) that work by absorbing energy are only for surges that are near zero. Destructive surges are hundreds of thousands of joules. How many joules does that protector claim to absorb?
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Old 10-08-2015, 12:39 PM   #23
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Low voltage is not harmful to any electronics. Low voltage is harmful to motorized appliances.

Voltage can drop so low that incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. Even that voltage is normal for all electronics. Too low for motors. But electronics must work fine and happy when voltage is that low.

Protectors (for a completely different anomaly) that work by absorbing energy are only for surges that are near zero. Destructive surges are hundreds of thousands of joules. How many joules does that protector claim to absorb?
2440 Joules for the 30 amp 34830 model# 3850 Joules for the 34850 model#. If you want to run your electronics including circuit boards at 102 volts be my guest. I have no problem with that.....I will not run anything at that voltage. Just me I guess....I won't even run my convertor at that voltage.....
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Old 10-08-2015, 02:55 PM   #24
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2440 Joules for the 30 amp 34830 model# 3850 Joules for the 34850 model#. If you want to run your electronics including circuit boards at 102 volts be my guest.
Irrelevant here are those fears. As tenttotrailer notes, "Not sure which company is best ... but you need protection for your investment." Even a manufacturer's name does not answer that question. Relevant is which anomaly must be averted. That also means specification numbers.

Electronics damage due to low voltages is only from fear and urban myths. Low voltage is only a threat to motorized appliances. In fact, one international design standard defines all low voltages in all capital letter: "No Damage Region". Most who fear have learned from hearsay. Relevant is which appliance needs protection from which anomaly.

As davel1971 notes, "the one you are looking at will not protect you from what is probably the most likely thing you can experience. Low or high voltage." A high or low voltage is also called a surge. Other and completely different anomalies are also called surges. 'Surge' is a vague and subjective term. The 'surge' of greatest concern here is high or low voltage.

Other anomalies are floating safety ground and reverse polarity. Those are irrelevant to appliances; are about human safety. That protector cannot even detect a defective earth ground. Each type protector is so completely different than each must be defined in terms of what surge it actually protects from. Probably the most likely one might experience is low or high voltage.

Even thousand joules are near zero protection. Destructive surges can be hundreds of thousands of joules. A thousands joules protector cannot absorb that energy. This is a completely different anomaly also called a surge.

To protect from that anomaly, a protector must be located as close to the pole as possible (ie within feet). Separation between a protector and trailer then increases protection. No protector protects from that anomaly. For this anomaly, a connection to (ie as short as possible) and a pole's earth ground define protection. This type surge is extremely rare.

Protection is defined by which 'surge' must be addressed. Low and high voltage are not problematic to electronics; are problematic to motorized appliances (ie air conditioner, refrigerator). Protection of all appliances from a completely different anomaly (also called a surge) means a protector must be located low impedance (within feet) of the pole's earth ground.

Different protectors are for completely different anomalies. Each is discussed in terms of what it does (ie specification numbers). Even a manufacturer's name says less.
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Old 10-08-2015, 03:19 PM   #25
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Like I said to each there own, I WILL NOT RUN MY 120V APPLIANCES such as A/C, microwave, refer, w/h, convertor at voltage less then 10% of anomaly stated running voltage of 120 volt. I will disconnect and just use 12 volt.
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Old 10-08-2015, 03:33 PM   #26
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Like I said to each there own, I WILL NOT RUN MY 120V APPLIANCES such as A/C, microwave, refer, w/h, convertor at voltage less then 10% of anomaly...
A/C, microwave, refrigerator, etc are motorized appliances. Please read what was written. Low voltage is problematic for those motorized appliances. And not for electronics. A unique surge protector is for low or high voltage - to protect motorized appliances from a typical anomaly.

An unexpected anomaly occurs too quick for a manual switchover to batteries. So a protector such as the Progressive is implemented.

Irrelevant here is what you do or feel. Only facts (ie protector specifications and what needs protection from what anomaly) are relevant.
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Old 10-08-2015, 03:54 PM   #27
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I'm with Glenn, if the voltage gets down below 102 volts, it will heat up the circuit boards in the different appliances that are on and "fry" them. Circuit boards and heat are don't mix. Makes no difference to 110v bulbs, most trailers/rvs don't have 110 v lights anyway.

BTW, the frigs are usually 12v/propane and no motors, etc.
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Old 10-08-2015, 04:05 PM   #28
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Am I wrong here but when voltage goes down amps go up and when amps go up so does the heat?

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Old 10-08-2015, 04:12 PM   #29
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I'm with Glenn, if the voltage gets down below 102 volts, it will heat up the circuit boards in the different appliances that are on and "fry" them.
Then you can say which component gets hot - and why. Doing this stuff as an engineer, it never happened. In fact, we verify our designs to confirm electronics work fine on low voltages. As required by international design standards that exists long before the IBM PC existed. Voltage so low that incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity.

Tom MacIntyre described same.
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We operate everything on an isolated variac, which means that I can control the voltage going into the unit I am working on from about 150 volts down to zero. This enables us to verify power regulation for over and under-voltage situations.
Switching supplies ... can and will regulate with very low voltages on the AC line in; the best I've seen was a TV which didn't die until I turned the variac down to 37 VAC! A brownout wouldn't have even affected the picture on that set.
What internal part gets hot on a low voltage? That myth is popular when one need not say what and why. Reality: all electronics are perfectly happy at low voltages. When voltage drops lower, electronics simply power off.

If wrong, then the part that gets hot (overheats) is easily defined. Name that part and why it gets hot.

When voltage goes down amps go up and when amps go up so does the heat ... applies to motorized appliances. So low voltage is problematic for motorized appliances. Does not apply to electronics.
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Old 10-08-2015, 04:17 PM   #30
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Weston, you can do whatever you want, I will just unplug from shore power when it gets down to around 104V.
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Old 10-08-2015, 04:55 PM   #31
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Weston, you can do whatever you want, I will just unplug from shore power when it gets down to around 104V.
Sounds like you are misunderstanding his post. Yes one would unplug if low voltage is to your camper if you are using ac or as Weston says applies to motorized appliances. It does not effect Electronics. Later RJD
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Old 10-08-2015, 04:59 PM   #32
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Am I wrong here but when voltage goes down amps go up and when amps go up so does the heat?

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You are correct, heat and circuit boards do not mix let alone windings in motors.
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Old 10-08-2015, 05:03 PM   #33
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Sounds like you are misunderstanding his post. Yes one would unplug if low voltage is to your camper if you are using ac or as Weston says applies to motorized appliances. It does not effect Electronics. Later RJD
Understand completely, when I unplug shore power it will automatically unplug the rest and they will run off the batteries, which is the whole point and the converter will be completely out of the picture. Other folks can do as they please naturally, but I don't have to pay for it if they're wrong.
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:27 PM   #34
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Am I wrong here but when voltage goes down amps go up and when amps go up so does the heat?
Turbs, nope. Across a given load, when the voltage drops, the amps also drop. When the voltage increases the amps also increase.

What you are thinking is: If the voltage goes up, the current can be less to provide the same power. (P= I x E) Power = Current x Voltage.

However if the voltage is increased on a load, the current will increase.

If you use a water comparison: Voltage = Pressure, Amps = Water and Amount of flow = Power. So more pressure and the more water will flow and develop more power. The analogy doesn't work completely, but it does in most cases.

In some cases (usually inductive loads, like motors), lower voltages will cause heating and at times excessive current.
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:40 PM   #35
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Look at Tweety's prices, I paid $242 for my Progressive 30A hardwired unit including shipping.
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:18 PM   #36
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I found a used one on eBay but wonder if the warranty stuff only works for first time owners?
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:57 PM   #37
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I found a used one on eBay but wonder if the warranty stuff only works for first time owners?

I only assume NO. They ask for a recpt when warranty is used. They may make provisions as there are no serial numbers....at least on hw..c series. You could e-mail or call if wondering.


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Old 10-09-2015, 01:37 AM   #38
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Turbs read this article on low voltage and the danger of increased amperage and heat
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File Type: pdf AC_Low_Voltage.pdf (17.1 KB, 17 views)
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Old 10-09-2015, 02:50 AM   #39
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Turbs read this article on low voltage and the danger of increased amperage and heat
Once 'reasons why' are included, then reasons for your myths become obvious. Your source is an admitted electrically naive author. He admits his knowledge only comes from magazine articles. He did not do this stuff. He simply admits he is reciting what others have told him. He does not even know why. Neither do you.

If low voltage causes increased heating, then universal electronics (from 85 to 265 volts) are hotter and failing on our 120 volt system. Reality. Those electronics are equally hot in Europe (230 volts) and in North America (120 volts). Because low voltage causes increased heating in motorized appliances (ie air conditioner that does not run from batteries). Low voltage causes no increased heat in electronics; despite hearsay and wild speculation that says otherwise.

A damning question repeated. If low voltage causes increased heating in electronics, then that poster can say what part inside electronics gets hot. Nobody did for only one reason. That increased heating is classic junk science - just like an article that says his electrical knowledge comes from reading magazines. He admits to being electrically naive. Yes one here cites that an an informed source. Nobody can even say what part gets hot - because none get hotter.

Completely irrelevant is what any one person does. It provides no useful information. Each such post is best ignored by adults who seek knowledge. Only relevant fact - low voltage is not harmful to electronics. Low voltage is potentially harmful to motorized appliances.

Finally, how do you know when voltage drops to 102? Do you monitor an AC volt meters every 15 seconds? Obviously disconnecting by a human is futile. Informed consumers install a Progressive, et al. Since no human can disconnect (switch to 12 volts) fast enough. That "I disconnect" is more wild speculation. It depends on a human reading a volt meter every 15 seconds. Will never happen since humans must even take a piss.

Defined is the problem: potential harm to motorized appliances. And a best solution: a protector that disconnects when voltage becomes too high or low.
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Old 10-09-2015, 09:36 AM   #40
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^^^^^^^
So Westom, your telling me low voltage causes heat and can mess up my electronics. Got it! Thanks pal!

Just playing lol, couldn't resist ������
I appreciate all the responses and didn't expect to light a debate able fuse. But from everything being said, fork over $240 and get a 30a progressive and enjoy my camper.
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