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06-23-2015, 02:06 PM
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#1
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Alleged curmudgeon
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Southwest Michigan
Posts: 558
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Surge protector working, I guess...
We just finished a 9-nite outing at a Michigan state park where our portable 30A power source was uninterrupted to my knowledge, EXCEPT for the afternoon of Day #5 when my Progressive Industries surge protection (model 30C, I think) was working overtime. In a period of around 4 hours, our power supply shut down about 6 times. After a couple of the events, I switched my surge protector to another 30A service on the same pole, just to see if it was just the one I'd chosen, but the problem persisted at that location, too. Each time there was an error code E-1 (Reverse Polarity). Eventually it quit doing it, and did not occur again during the last four days. I don't know much about electricity, so I'm not even aware of what reverse polarity is, or what would cause it. Others in the campground experienced some interruptions during this time. There was no known construction work, no bad weather, and no other suspect conditions which would cause power interruptions, and it was only 67 degrees out, so nobody was running any A/C that day. Any thoughts about what was likely going on?
__________________
Lee
2013 Windjammer 3008W
2006 Chevy Silverado 2500HD 6.0L w/Equalizer 4
Nights camped: 2012 (29); 2013 (26); 2014 (40); 2015 (43); 2016 (35); 2017 (34); 2018 (39); 2019 (30); 2020 (16); 2021 (14); 2022 to date (12)
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06-23-2015, 03:14 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: NE Florida
Posts: 781
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Not sure what the problem may have been, but reverse polarity does not come & go. It is a physical wiring error that is either there or not there. Have you checked your surge protector since returning home?
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06-23-2015, 03:23 PM
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#3
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Site Team - Lou
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 23,268
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You sure that was the correct error code (could it mean something else?)
__________________
Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
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06-23-2015, 04:32 PM
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#5
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Alleged curmudgeon
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Southwest Michigan
Posts: 558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa GLS
Not sure what the problem may have been, but reverse polarity does not come & go. It is a physical wiring error that is either there or not there. Have you checked your surge protector since returning home?
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Papa GLS - I thought that was likely the case...which is part of what was confusing to me. I asked myself "how could I have 'reverse polarity' one minute and not the next?" For the rest of the week, nothing happened and normal operation was observed. I hooked it up again upon returning to my home 30A RV power and everything seems normal. It was just that one afternoon (when others I spoke to without surge protection reported they were "experiencing outages").
Herk - Yes, I am sure that was the code it showed. I am now wondering if the surge protector might use that code as a default when mere power interruptions occur or something like that.
__________________
Lee
2013 Windjammer 3008W
2006 Chevy Silverado 2500HD 6.0L w/Equalizer 4
Nights camped: 2012 (29); 2013 (26); 2014 (40); 2015 (43); 2016 (35); 2017 (34); 2018 (39); 2019 (30); 2020 (16); 2021 (14); 2022 to date (12)
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06-23-2015, 04:38 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,162
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See progressive saved your stuff by shutting down the power, works like it suppose to. Reverse polarity sounds odd but the power company could have been making repairs up stream from the camp ground which caused the issue with your site and everyone else's site.
__________________
2014 Palomino Columbus 3650TH
435AH 12V VMax Charge Tanks, 520 watt Monocrystilline Solar Array, Morningstar MPPT TS-60 CC,Morningstar Remote,Cotek True Sine Wave Inverter,Cotek Remote Controller,50amp Progressive Hardwire Surge Protector
2015 Dodge 3500 6.7L 4X4
2011 CanAm Commander XT 1000
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06-24-2015, 09:50 AM
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#7
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vern
I asked myself "how could I have 'reverse polarity' one minute and not the next?"
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Easy. But first one must understand how reverse polarity is detected.
To appliances, polarity is irrelevant since both hot (black) and whilte (neutral) wires constantly reverse polarity. Polarity is simply another layer of human protection. Polarity is determined by measuring voltage between those two wires and the safety ground.
So what voltage constitutes a reverse polarity? Normally safety ground and neutral are exactly same with no load and a few volts difference with a load. Reverse polarity is determined, for example, by a higher voltage difference. A failing or undersized neutral incoming to the pole might explain it. Or some problem with the pole's earth ground such as not fully conductive or, for some reason, is carrying current. (Earth ground and safety ground are electrically different.)
You know that reverse neutral was reported due to changing voltages. Many different voltages exist simultaneously on the same AC service - not just 120 VAC. That design of surge protector was apparently detecting one of those other voltage changes which, to a better informed electrician, implies something is slowly getting worse in local power districtuion.
Reverse polarity does not threaten appliances. It is simply one layer of human protecxtion that has been compromised.
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06-25-2015, 04:48 AM
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#8
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Alleged curmudgeon
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Southwest Michigan
Posts: 558
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Thanks, westom. I am (slowly) digesting that.
Since a couple of other campers who I spoke to (as far as 20 sites away from me) reported experiencing power interruptions at the same time, now I'm wondering whether reverse polarity can exist in the larger system (i.e., not just at my pole) and whether reverse polarity can cause power interruptions (or power interruptions can cause reverse polarity). Perhaps I was wrong to link what they reported to what I experienced.
__________________
Lee
2013 Windjammer 3008W
2006 Chevy Silverado 2500HD 6.0L w/Equalizer 4
Nights camped: 2012 (29); 2013 (26); 2014 (40); 2015 (43); 2016 (35); 2017 (34); 2018 (39); 2019 (30); 2020 (16); 2021 (14); 2022 to date (12)
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06-25-2015, 05:27 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Waynesville
Posts: 14,428
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Lee I am Glad you reported this! Other Members have replied that the (S/P) has (Saved their Butt)! When you talked to the Other Campers who had Issues also that Day,Did any of them (Crash & Burn) because of the (R/P Issue) or were all of them (Protected with a S/P System of their own also)? Where there (Converters/Refers/TVs/M/Ws) laying Everywhere in the C/G? Youroo!!
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06-25-2015, 05:57 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Western NY
Posts: 222
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westom - Thank you. I appreciate the time you took to produce such a clear explanation for those of us still in the learning curve.
__________________
2019 Rockwood Roo 235s
2010 GMC Sierra
Me and DH (aka the Bearded Guy) and as many kids and grandkids as are available at any given time.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
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06-25-2015, 06:53 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 10,833
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I just read the Progressive instructions. The OP was having reverse polarity which is the wiring between hot and neutral being backwards. If open ground was involved it would read open ground or E3. It could be a open neutral/ poor connection somewhere in the electrical system causing voltage to appear on the neutral causing the issue.
__________________
B and B
2022 Venture RV SportTrek STT 302 VRB Travel Trailer
2018 Heartland Landmark 365 Louisville 5th Wheel
2015 Heartland Bighorn 5th Wheel
2013 FR Rockwood 8289WS 5th Wheel
2012 FR Rockwood 2703 SS Travel Trailer
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06-25-2015, 06:59 AM
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#12
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 10,516
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I printed the progressive error codes on a note card size sheet and taped
it to the inside of my power center door.
It's already come in handy twice!!
__________________
Peace!
Dan & Rita D
2017 Nissan Titan 5.6L King cab 4wd
2016 Evergreen Everlite 242RBS
29' empty nest model. Blue Ox WD hitch
(1 queen bed, large main cabin and huge bathroom)
Camping days 2010-53, 2011-47, 2012-41, 2013-41, 2014-31, 2015-40, 2016-44, 2017-63, 2018-75, 2019-32, 2020-41, 2021-49, 2022-43, 2023-66
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06-25-2015, 07:01 AM
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#13
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Alleged curmudgeon
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Southwest Michigan
Posts: 558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youroo
Lee I am Glad you reported this! Other Members have replied that the (S/P) has (Saved their Butt)! When you talked to the Other Campers who had Issues also that Day,Did any of them (Crash & Burn) because of the (R/P Issue) or were all of them (Protected with a S/P System of their own also)? Where there (Converters/Refers/TVs/M/Ws) laying Everywhere in the C/G? Youroo!!
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Neither of the two campers who I spoke with that had noted they'd been aware of the multiple power interruptions that afternoon had any surge protection of their own. Their "unprotected" TTs were connected to the campground shore power directly. Neither of them, one of whom is a good friend, reported any adverse after-effect. Apparently no damage was done.
__________________
Lee
2013 Windjammer 3008W
2006 Chevy Silverado 2500HD 6.0L w/Equalizer 4
Nights camped: 2012 (29); 2013 (26); 2014 (40); 2015 (43); 2016 (35); 2017 (34); 2018 (39); 2019 (30); 2020 (16); 2021 (14); 2022 to date (12)
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06-25-2015, 11:00 AM
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#14
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vern
Neither of them, one of whom is a good friend, reported any adverse after-effect. Apparently no damage was done.
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Because reverse polarity does not damage any appliances.
To have reverse polarity, wires must be fully reversed. Design that Progressive must use to detect reverse polarity can also report other anomalies (as described earlier). None involved or should be confused with a completely different anomaly - an open ground.
BTW, ground is another human safety layer and also not for protecting appliances.
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06-25-2015, 11:08 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 351
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Another way to look at reverse polarity not being a problem is to look at the old non-polarized plugs that came on everything. The equipment didn't care which way it was plugged in at all. The polarized plug came about for other (safety) issues.
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Joel K
2013 Coachman Mirada 29DSSE
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