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Old 03-19-2023, 09:59 AM   #21
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Li BIM

According to BattleBorn, the Lithium BIM cycles its alternator charging function to prevent overheating. Checks voltage, too.
See: https://battlebornbatteries.com/prod...ation-manager/
Not sure about charging a 270Ah battery. No problems so far in charging my pair of 100 Ah batteries while driving.
This guy, Lloyd, has done quite a bit of testing his MBS alternator system.
https://windinmyface.com/Sprinter-Al...r-Primary.html
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Old 03-19-2023, 11:16 PM   #22
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Hi nvs4602,
That’s amazing that you fit your 280 Ah Lifepo4 in the space taken up by one Group 27 battery. I am to intimidated to build my own battery. We are excited to hear from your big improvement to make the switch from two ~100Ah LA batteries to Lithium. Two 100 Ah Lifepo4 batteries would fit under our steps. But the 270Ah battery we are considering is too large. Putting it in the dinette is not an option as our dinette is part of the slide out. We have difficulty bringing the slide in, even with a fully charged battery and hooked up to 30A service. So, we try to minimize the weight in the slide out. Currently, the adjoining exterior compartment is winning. If so, we will use the battery box for other components, as you did. I was concerned that the Victron SmartSolar MPPT 100/50 Charge Controller would not handle our planned 660W solar array. I will have reevaluate this.

Hi DogFather,
Your questions and my inability to quantify and project our considerations, accurately captures our quandary. We do some of all of the above. Our struggle to successfully keep our LA batteries >50% has cramped our camping lifestyle. We like to explore an area for several days. Boondocking, then hiking, biking, touristing, or hanging out; then not driving enough hours to recharge our batteries before boondocking again. We don’t mind using our generator when it is an option. But, like you, I think we want to take this opportunity to upgrade at the moment that we need new batteries, and do it properly, with solar, to improve our camping experiences for years to come. So, your solution of as many panels and as large a battery bank as practicable is what we want to do.

JLeising, TitanMike and TomAR,
Thanks for sharing your info and links (I haven’t read them yet), on the DC-DC charging with the alternator. Curious… How long a driving time does it take to move the needle in terms of partially and/or fully recharging your batteries?

Sure appreciate all this feedback to help me become more confident in proceeding with our upgrade
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Old 03-20-2023, 12:08 AM   #23
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Building your own battery is easy. Not much different then hooking up lead acid batteries together. Just more compact. 304ah cells are selling for $155 each.and you need 4 cells to make a battery. You can buy the cells from here.

https://www.docanpower.com/index.php...product_id=448

Use this 200amp 12v bms with Bluetooth

https://a.co/d/afwOwrB

So for a little less than $800 you'll have a 304ah battery.
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Old 03-20-2023, 01:12 AM   #24
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With my 20 amp dc-to-dc charger it would take ten hours driving to fully recharge my two Battleborn 100 amp-hour house batteries, plus a little time to account for ongoing house battery loads while driving (e.g., propane detector, fridge control circuit, etc).
I find I am usually only 25% to 50% discharged, typically one night between drives, so I am fully charged in 3 to 5 hours. My solar also charges while driving, and probably at least covers the ongoing house loads. FYI, Jim
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Old 03-20-2023, 08:45 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvs4602 View Post
Building your own battery is easy. Not much different then hooking up lead acid batteries together. Just more compact. 304ah cells are selling for $155 each.and you need 4 cells to make a battery. You can buy the cells from here.

https://www.docanpower.com/index.php...product_id=448

Use this 200amp 12v bms with Bluetooth

https://a.co/d/afwOwrB

So for a little less than $800 you'll have a 304ah battery.

The DIY is relatively easy as NVS said
but you do have to follow some guidelines for attaching the busbars and securing the battery ...


you can arrange the cells to fit into many different patterns to fit into the available space.
tape the cells together then use a plywood box to limit possible swelling but more importantly to protect the cell connections.

you assemble the battery therefore......... you can then repair it

If the BMS fails you can bypass it for a few days and continue on until you get the replacement.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
moving the battery storage area to a nearby compartment is also doable
may be worth the effort if you want the capacity. ( DIY or drop in )


If you are going to spend the time to upgrade the panels .... it would be a shame to not get the most battery you can get so you can capture all those electrons.

I am in the process of doing the DIY route.
splitting it into 3 sections ... in the following order

BATTERY extend my boondocking to 3-4 days could use my small generator when needed

3000w INVERTER


SOLAR 600-1000w no more generator
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Old 03-20-2023, 09:33 AM   #26
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while boondocking ... your priority is to replace the battery power you used and any extra is a bonus .

Recharging up to 100% ..... is not required every single day once month is suggested by Battleborn. I would aim for once every 2 weeks.

Your solar plans (600w ) will certainly be enough to recharge a 200-300ah if you can get a sunny location


while driving the solar will still be working
plus ADD what the alternator will push through a DC-DC charger.

300ah battery holds about 3600w at 12v
20 amp alternator DC-DC = 240w per hour
600w panels producing average = 400w per hour


full re-charge 3600w battery (0% soc) at 640w per hour will take 5 -6 hours

so now you could
increase panels to 800w coupled with a 30amp DC-DC = 960w charge @ 4 hours


above example is extreme most people won't completely discharge a 300ah battery I like to calculate using 30% discharge.

So adding my usage Watts and multiply by 3 will give me my battery size.
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Old 03-26-2023, 11:31 PM   #27
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Aussieguy and JLeising,
Thanks for your info on the DC-DC Charger and Battery and Panel sizing.

This is an iterative process.
I revised my Estimated Essential daily usage to 2011Wh and Essential + Optional Daily to 2638Wh. Dragonfly made their recommendations based on 2496 Wh (within 6% of the Revised Essential+ Optional, so close enough to my estimate.) Several previously noted questions remain unresolved.

The 3x 220W panels are too large to fit between the obstructions on our roof. If we go with 3x smaller panels we end up with less than 600W total. Taking suggestions we might have been on the low side with a 660W array I am thinking of going with:

4x 200W panels. 800Wh would require upgrading from a MPPT 100/50
to a MPPT 150/60 Solar Charge Controller

30A DC-DC charger as planned

Still thinking of the 270Ah Battery. Aussieguy, your suggestion of 3x usage for a battery bank is more than double this. Will I be missing out on those electrons?

Aussieguy, you are going with the 3000W Inverter Charger. What is the decision criteria between the MultiPlus C 12/2000/80-50 120V and MultiPlus 12/3000/120-50 120V?

I have attached a file with my calculations for Wh consumed, battery bank size and several panel configuration options with the hours to charge based on 6 hours of peak sunlight.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Solar Li calcs 230326.pdf (131.5 KB, 11 views)
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Old 03-27-2023, 06:42 AM   #28
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if you are going to stay at places with a lot of good solar days
or if you get the DC-DC and you only stay a couple of days in one spot (you drive a lot).
You can cut down on the reserve capacity.

don't forget to have a ground solar panel or two especially if roof space is limited

Inverter ...
I'm going to get a 3000w inverter (not the Multiplus 2 ) and a automatic transfer switch.
The original converter will be re-wired so it is only powered by the shorepower side of the transfer switch.
As per Titans instructions.
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Old 03-27-2023, 11:32 AM   #29
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YouTube “DIY Solar with Will Prowse”.
Very informative. Has some videos tearing apart commercial batteries while testing. Discusses some adaquate alternatives to BattleBorn.
Several solar beginners videos. I’m reviewing them considering getting Lithium batteries, plus I just got a “solar generator” battery box power supply and a suitcase solar panel and bought adapters to send power to my TT battery.
Other YouTube videos worth looking at are “CheapRVLiving”. Mostly about full timers but has a lot of solar power subject videos.
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Old 03-27-2023, 12:27 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomerweps View Post
Discusses some adaquate alternatives to BattleBorn.

There are lots of alternatives to Battleborn batteries. Several (same size/spec) are even MORE expensive.

It all depends on what one wants. A battery that they can install and pretty much forget about or a battery that has had a lot of features left out in order to meet a low cost.

In a way it's like buying a tool at Home Depot. There are tools like Milwaukee, Dewalt, etc and there are tools from unknown mfrs (usually from China) that have great prices but don't compare for durability and lifetime.

It all depends on what you want.

For some reason everyone points at Battleborn and their higher price but what about Lifeblue, Lion,
Dakota Lithium, and others in the same price range? Might be a good reason for that price point material and component quality.

The cheap ($300-$400 range) are relatively recent entries to the market (last 2-3 years) from China and how long will they really last??

Just like buying anything else. What's most important, price or long life and reliability.

Old saying:

"Quality is like buying oats. If you want nice fresh oats you have to pay a fair price. If you can be satisfied with oats that have already been thru the horse, that comes a little cheaper."
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Old 03-27-2023, 02:31 PM   #31
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Good points, TM.

Other considerations include features of the BMS system, low temperature heating, Bluetooth monitoring (and what is monitored), size vs AH desired, etc.
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Old 03-27-2023, 05:00 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaDog View Post
Place to start is the forum library there tons of articles on solar and lithium batteries.
Do you mean the Library link third from the left in the bar? Not seeing anything there specific for Solar.

Or are you just referring to searching all the posts in the Electrical, Charging Systems & Solar section. No Stickys there on Solar.

No need for changing batteries yet but want to get more informed.
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Old 03-27-2023, 05:33 PM   #33
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https://www.youtube.com/@WillProwse


https://diysolarforum.com/


https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/


https://www.youtube.com/@OffGridGarageAustralia






lots of study material for you


'
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Old 03-28-2023, 06:51 AM   #34
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Thanks
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Old 03-28-2023, 07:20 AM   #35
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The many shared experiences, suggestions, links and references in this thread, the Electrical and the Charging Systems & Solar sub forum have helped me to pull the trigger on our LiFePO4/Solar Power purchase. We went with the integrated package created by the technical support team at Dragonfly (Battleborn). They offered a 7% discount and technical support to purchase through them. Battleborn had a 48 hour flash sale on their batteries. $250 off the 270Ah GameChanger (heated). The other components are all Victron with Newpowa panels with the 9 Busbar technology. We only bought one 270Ah battery. As pointed out in this thread, we are over paneled. The rest of the components will support adding a second battery (>$2000), in the future. We will use the BMS to more accurately understand the Wh we use and how the system is functioning instead of estimating and adding fudge factors at every point.

Aussieguy noted the study material featuring William Prowse. He is an excellent source. I also bought his book (<$6), which was written in plain language and well illustrated for DIYs.

Golfing Dave, in the library check our "The 12V side of Life" TitanMike suggested it to me. Various Battery Manufacturers/resellers and bloggers websites offer a terrific education.

Thanks all of you, especially Aussieguy and TitanMike. As I proceed with our installation after we get back from a trip to Hawaii in mid May, I hope to give back to the forum members in return for the help I have received.
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Old 08-12-2023, 04:07 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry-NC View Post
The likely cause is the check valve (one-way valve) in the pump itself. It pumps up static pressure within the piping, and then when the pump stops, the pressure within the piping causes water to seep backwards through the pump to the fresh water tank.

With this problem, if you were to hook up to city water for a while, you would see the water level in the tank rise and eventually overflow.

Sometimes this problem can be cleared by flushing water through the valve with the pump, with no back pressure, but you've been doing that.

Some people take the pump apart and clean the valve.

Some people add an additional check valve to the pump output. This one would work, along with an additional 1/2" coupler.

Let us know which option you pick.
Larry-NC, I have finished the solar/Lithium system wiring. Getting to this additional Shurflo water pump check valve fix having ordered the parts you suggested. The hose between the water pump and the filter is reinforced 1/2" hose. The rest of the system is regular PEX. See attached picture. The Shurflo model 4008-101-A65 pump's pressure rating is 55 PSI. PEX is good to 160 PSI. Is there any reason that I can't use 1/2" PEX?
Thanks,
Tom
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Old 08-12-2023, 04:41 PM   #37
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The only reason...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertha17 View Post
Larry-NC, I have finished the solar/Lithium system wiring. Getting to this additional Shurflo water pump check valve fix having ordered the parts you suggested. The hose between the water pump and the filter is reinforced 1/2" hose. The rest of the system is regular PEX. See attached picture. The Shurflo model 4008-101-A65 pump's pressure rating is 55 PSI. PEX is good to 160 PSI. Is there any reason that I can't use 1/2" PEX?
Thanks,
Tom
The only reason is that the pump vibrates a lot. The flexible hose isolates that vibration and noise from the rest of the plumbing. I expect you would have more noise from the plumbing if you eliminated the flex hose.
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Old 08-15-2023, 09:37 PM   #38
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The only reason is that the pump vibrates a lot. The flexible hose isolates that vibration and noise from the rest of the plumbing. I expect you would have more noise from the plumbing if you eliminated the flex hose.
Larry-NC Thanks for the advice. I used Reinforced vinyl hose that was 3/4" Outside Diameter and 1/2" Inside Diameter. The old plastic PEX fittings fit inside. But 1/2" PEX clamps did not fit over the outside and 3/4" PEX clamps would not compress enough to form a tight seal. Ended up using stainless steel hose clamps. Will test for leaks after I deal with some more pressing issues with the solar/lithium install
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