Upgrading to Lithium batteries

[SunseeKing]

Brand new member here, please be gentle!

We're planning to upgrade to lithium batteries on our 2018 Sunseeker 3010DS. We have a 160-volt portable solar kit (the rig we bought is solar-ready so we just have to plug it in.)

We're looking at NextGen lithium batteries (https://nexgenbattery.com/rv-lithium-batteries/) and I see that there are various choices in amp hours in batteries that are more or less the same dimensions. Assuming the dimensions and weight (and cost - ouch!) are not an issue, is there such a thing as installing lithium batteries with *too much* AH capacity?

We will be doing a good deal of dry camping/boondocking, AND we run our own business so we will be working (boo!) on computers part of the time, so our usage will be fairly high. My inclination is to go for the most AH we can afford.... but I'm not an electrician and I don't want to damage either the batteries or the electrical system.

Thanks in advance for any insights!

[rk06382]

Originally Posted by SunseeKing

Brand new member here, please be gentle!

We're planning to upgrade to lithium batteries on our 2018 Sunseeker 3010DS. We have a 160-volt portable solar kit (the rig we bought is solar-ready so we just have to plug it in.)

We're looking at NextGen lithium batteries (https://nexgenbattery.com/rv-lithium-batteries/) and I see that there are various choices in amp hours in batteries that are more or less the same dimensions. Assuming the dimensions and weight (and cost - ouch!) are not an issue, is there such a thing as installing lithium batteries with *too much* AH capacity?

We will be doing a good deal of dry camping/boondocking, AND we run our own business so we will be working (boo!) on computers part of the time, so our usage will be fairly high. My inclination is to go for the most AH we can afford.... but I'm not an electrician and I don't want to damage either the batteries or the electrical system.

Thanks in advance for any insights!

Call Battle Born Batteries Toll Free: 855-292-2831 They are in Reno, Nevada. I bought four from them. Ask for a Military Discount.


100Ah 12V LiFePO4 Deep Cycle Battery $950

[ependydad]

Like Robert, I love my Battle Born batteries. I wrote a post about them:
Let’s Boondock! Battery upgrade (to lithium)! | Learn To RV

Otherwise, to answer the question- no, you cannot have too much battery capacity. We have 400AH of lithium batteries (with all of that usable given how BB batteries are). We LOVE not having to worry about electricity.

I will say, like I mention in the article- absolutely make sure you also buy a battery monitor. IMO, dry camping almost requires one for proper battery maintenance.

[Jpcarroll]

I'm also looking to install a Battle Born LiFePO4 lithium to replace a pair of 6v 225ah batts. We're awaiting delivery of a new Flagstaff E-Pro 19FD.

I want to remove the weight from the front-heavy E-Pro and and bring it inside. And moving to lithium will free up weight for more of our crap.

We camp a lot on hookups, but want to do more boondocking. Still trying to decide on a single 100ah lithium or a pair. Also deciding on location inside. All this without having the trailer in-hand yet

[rk06382]

Originally Posted by ependydad

Like Robert, I love my Battle Born batteries. I wrote a post about them:
Let’s Boondock! Battery upgrade (to lithium)! | Learn To RV

Otherwise, to answer the question- no, you cannot have too much battery capacity. We have 400AH of lithium batteries (with all of that usable given how BB batteries are). We LOVE not having to worry about electricity.

I will say, like I mention in the article- absolutely make sure you also buy a battery monitor. IMO, dry camping almost requires one for proper battery maintenance.

Great article.

I also installed a Samlex EVO-2212 Pure Sine Inverter/Charger. It has two built-in transfer switches for Generator & Shore power. I was able to program it for charging lithium batteries. It can charge at 100 amps. Battle Borns can be charged at 50% of rating. IE: A 100ah battery can charge at 50 amps.

My FR3 is at the RV shop getting six 100 watt Renogy Solar Panels & 40 Amp MPPT charge controller installed.

See my post: Expanding compartment space for 2200 Watt Inverter/Charger

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by rk06382

Battle Borns can be charged at 50% of rating. IE: A 100ah battery can charge at 50 amps.

BB's can be charges at 50% of battery bank capacity. For my 400AH bank, I can charge up to 200AH.

I have to find the link, but BB posted that on my Learn To RV FB page back when I first started documenting my install.

[Flybob]

I assume () you mean you have a 160W portable array. If you are going to be a heavy user and plan to add 4 LI batteries, I would consider adding additional panels. If you are using the Zamp system ( usually provided in solar ready units) be aware you may need to modify connectors and add a controller if you add panels from another manufacturer.

[mlmay12]

Originally Posted by SunseeKing

Brand new member here, please be gentle!

We're planning to upgrade to lithium batteries on our 2018 Sunseeker 3010DS. We have a 160-volt portable solar kit (the rig we bought is solar-ready so we just have to plug it in.)

We're looking at NextGen lithium batteries (https://nexgenbattery.com/rv-lithium-batteries/) and I see that there are various choices in amp hours in batteries that are more or less the same dimensions. Assuming the dimensions and weight (and cost - ouch!) are not an issue, is there such a thing as installing lithium batteries with *too much* AH capacity?

We will be doing a good deal of dry camping/boondocking, AND we run our own business so we will be working (boo!) on computers part of the time, so our usage will be fairly high. My inclination is to go for the most AH we can afford.... but I'm not an electrician and I don't want to damage either the batteries or the electrical system.

Thanks in advance for any insights!

I have to agree with others about the Battle Borns, I replaced the two AGM Batteries with 100AH Battle Born Batteries. Saved a total of 80 lbs and more than doubled the available power. I have run some tests on them and discharged them down to 20% SOC and still had 13V available and could run my slide in and out. I also added 200W more solar for a total of 400W. I replaced my Zamp Solar Controller with a newer one that had the profile for properly charging Lithium. I also replaced my Progressive Dynamics Converter Section with one that supports a Lithium Charging Profile. Has been working perfectly and provides all the power I need for boondocking. I also agree you should install a good battery monitor system to get an accurate picture of your state of charge at any time. I used the Victron one.

[Spikedog]

Do those lithium batteries have the ability to provide cranking power? Thinking of a set for the motorhome, but they'd have to pull double duty running the lights/furnace and starting a 6.0L diesel.

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by Spikedog

Do those lithium batteries have the ability to provide cranking power? Thinking of a set for the motorhome, but they'd have to pull double duty running the lights/furnace and starting a 6.0L diesel.

Contact Battle Born and ask. They're really straight shooters and will tell you one way or the other.

[camaraderie]

Originally Posted by SunseeKing

Brand new member here, please be gentle!

We're planning to upgrade to lithium batteries on our 2018 Sunseeker 3010DS. We have a 160-volt portable solar kit (the rig we bought is solar-ready so we just have to plug it in.)

We're looking at NextGen lithium batteries (https://nexgenbattery.com/rv-lithium-batteries/) and I see that there are various choices in amp hours in batteries that are more or less the same dimensions. Assuming the dimensions and weight (and cost - ouch!) are not an issue, is there such a thing as installing lithium batteries with *too much* AH capacity?

We will be doing a good deal of dry camping/boondocking, AND we run our own business so we will be working (boo!) on computers part of the time, so our usage will be fairly high. My inclination is to go for the most AH we can afford.... but I'm not an electrician and I don't want to damage either the batteries or the electrical system.

Thanks in advance for any insights!

I suggest you read the linked article before spending a dime. This is by a marine ABYC electrical certified guy who writes for consumer mags and does testing for major companies. He has a stack of 1000 buck batteries in his boatyard from people whose lithiums have failed quickly in service...and he recommends no one purchase lithium batteries at this time that isn't a well qualified electrical hobbyist OR has a system designed and installed as a complete system including all charging sources and controls in addition to the batts. Lest you think he just doesn't like LiFePo's or is trying to sell something else...he has had lithium on HIS boat since 2011. He is a fan of lithium...but not for drop in use in an existing system and not for the average boater/Rv'er yet. Read to understand why.
https://marinehowto.com/lifepo4-batteries-on-boats/


I'd also note that I think you mean you are planning a 160 WATT solar system rather than a 160 volt system.
This will provide ON AVERAGE about 40 amp hours per day of 12V power into whatever kind of batteries you use. Most people use a lot more than that but just suggesting that you NOW get a battery monitor like a Victron or Trimetric (you'll need one in any case) and MEASURE your amp hour use next time you are boondocking. Size your panels at 4x that use at a minimum...or figure out how to reduce your electric use. Good luck!

[Mad Cow]

Life Blue Li batteries are similar in price and have Bluetooth connectivity so one can monitor and set various parameters from their smartphone.

[Spikedog]

Originally Posted by ependydad

Contact Battle Born and ask. They're really straight shooters and will tell you one way or the other.

Checked out the website - +$1K for one battery?!? What was I thinking? Too steep for me.

[rk06382]

Originally Posted by camaraderie

I suggest you read the linked article before spending a dime. This is by a marine ABYC electrical certified guy who writes for consumer mags and does testing for major companies. He has a stack of 1000 buck batteries in his boatyard from people whose lithiums have failed quickly in service...and he recommends no one purchase lithium batteries at this time that isn't a well qualified electrical hobbyist OR has a system designed and installed as a complete system including all charging sources and controls in addition to the batts. Lest you think he just doesn't like LiFePo's or is trying to sell something else...he has had lithium on HIS boat since 2011. He is a fan of lithium...but not for drop in use in an existing system and not for the average boater/Rv'er yet. Read to understand why.
https://marinehowto.com/lifepo4-batteries-on-boats/


I'd also note that I think you mean you are planning a 160 WATT solar system rather than a 160 volt system.
This will provide ON AVERAGE about 40 amp hours per day of 12V power into whatever kind of batteries you use. Most people use a lot more than that but just suggesting that you NOW get a battery monitor like a Victron or Trimetric (you'll need one in any case) and MEASURE your amp hour use next time you are boondocking. Size your panels at 4x that use at a minimum...or figure out how to reduce your electric use. Good luck!

I read the article linked above. I agree that chargers need to be programed for lithium.

I have programed my Samlex EVO-2212 to LiFePO4 with the help of Samlex & Battle Born Tech Support. I will also program my Epever TRIRON4210N 40 amp MPPT solar charge controller for LiFePO4.

I also agree that 160 watt may not be enough. I went with 600 watts because on my wife wants to use her Instapot and I need to use my CPAP.

Also make sure you have a MPPT solar charge controller. MPPT is more efficient than a PWM.

[TitanMike]

One thing I have noticed in reading about the various LiFe batteries is that they are NOT designed to be used as starting batteries. A couple I've read up on have internal protection that will shut them down if high current occurs for longer than just a short time. Might get away with starting a small engine like a generator but a large gas or diesel engine, no. Especially a diesel with it's high cranking currents.

Another think that caught my interest is the use of these batteries with humongous Inverters. Running a 3500W Inverter at close to rated load would draw just under 300 amp and one of he batteries I was reading the spec sheet on would shut down after 30 seconds of 200 amp draw. Would certainly require a much larger battery bank if using that sized inverter and at $1k per battery (approx)??????

Lots to like about their lighter weight and deeper discharge cycles but initial expense, cost of upgrading to proper charging system, and any other hidden costs should definitely be considered. The more I read the more convinced that the Li batteries are the wave of the future but are still not ready for prime time.

I have a car with a 17Kwh Li battery in it. The manufacturer had to incorporate a heating/cooling system into the battery in order make it work properly due to the narrow ideal operating temperature window.

[Dpelaez]

I suggest st least 200ah and if you have room, go with 2x200ah=400ah. I put in BattMobile batteries a yr ago and love it. Check the website. www.battmobile.com

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by Dpelaez

I suggest st least 200ah and if you have room, go with 2x200ah=400ah. I put in BattMobile batteries a yr ago and love it. Check the website. www.battmobile.com

This address takes me to a DJ service named "Batt Mobile".

[babock]

Originally Posted by camaraderie

I suggest you read the linked article before spending a dime.

If you read the article, it points out the problems with BMS that don't work which caused the failed LiFePO4 batteries.

I did read this article before I bought my BattleBorn batteries. It confirmed for me why I wanted to stick with a battery with a built in BMS like BB has.

Here is a quote from the article:

Beyond all that we’ve had a LFP bank on our own boat since 2011. I am a huge fan of LFP banks, for many reasons...

If you use a drop in battery like Battleborn and use charging equipment setup for lithium like I have done, using a drop in battery like BB should be low risk with huge benefits.

[Mad Cow]

Originally Posted by Spikedog

Checked out the website - +$1K for one battery?!? What was I thinking? Too steep for me.

Yeah, sticker shock can skew things. One has to keep in mind that one of those Li batteries will last 10 times as long as a deep cycle bat will. And if used properly and treated well, significantly longer than 10x. More like 30x. 10x is worse case scenario.

[aeblank]

My dad has 4 years on his Trojan 6v batteries, and still going. Who cares if a battery lasts 10x (40 years?) or 30x (120 years?!!).

Time value of money, man....

Sure, there are reasons (weight being the biggest, imo), but I sure don't see them being ready for prime time.