WFCO charger worked OK!

[KyDan]

Trip Report-

We spent 6 days in Elkmont CG in the Smokies last week. It's a no hook up
CG with some areas generator friendly. I took my Honda 2k genny and was
mentally set to come home and order a better charger.

Now I'm thinking not so fast. My WFCO 8955 PEC charger seemed to perform
satisfactorily. I have 2 GC2 golf cart batteries from Sams Club. They are about 3 years old and have been maintained at home by keeping them on
a little battery tender jr. pretty much all the time we're not on the road.

We arrived Monday afternoon and set up in a site (reserved 2 months ago) that did not have close neighbors. I'm probably going back here one day!
Back to batteries....

We have a 400 watt "pure sine wave" plug in inverter and a decent LCD tv.
We used the factory LED ceiling lights sparingly but we didn't move around
in the dark! We watched an hour of pre-recorded TV DVDs first 2 days and
2 hours on day 3. (Jesse Stone!).
By Thursday afternoon my voltage under very light load was showing 12.2 and would drop to 12 or 12.1 if we turned on much in lights.
I fired up the Honda and plugged in.
The WFCO immediately began running it's cooling fan and my Progressive Industries surge protector was indicating 10 amps at 126 volts input.
I wish I had a way to measure actual amps into the battery but I don't.
My battery voltage went up to 13.7 almost immediately and stayed
there for the next 3 hours.
The amps showing at the surge protector gradually decreased to..... not sure
but I think they never went below 8 amps input at 126 volts.

That doesn't seem like a bad charge rate.
What do you think?
Would a new charger really boost my batteries much faster than that?

We watched 2 more hours of TV Friday night and by Saturday afternoon
we were back down to 12.1 volts under light load so I ran the Honda 2 more
hours. I was a little disappointed the batteries seemed to go down faster
the last 2 days. I guess the 3 hour charge on Thursday didn't boost them
as much as I had hoped but still seems like a decent charge rate.

Anyway- we rarely camp off the grid more than 2 or 3 nights at a time.
This 6 nighter was an exception.
I'm pretty satisfied with the whole experience.
Weather was cool at night and the CG quieted right down every night by
10:30 or so. Sleeping with windows open was no problem! Bonus the little river was flowing nice and noisy all week!

We tanked up with 50 gallons of fresh water at the Sugarland welcome
center. (Low pressure!! took 17 minutes to fill my tank!!!)
We took 2 navy showers each and washed dishes and hands and teeth etc. I don't think we used half the fresh water!
Didn't come close to filling gray or black tanks.
It didn't rain until we were bugging out Sunday morning when it just wouldn't stop. Breaking camp in the rain sucks but not nearly as bad
as it used to in a tent!!

Happy Trails!

[ScottBrownstein]

No not too bad, however, the WFCOs are noted for not automatically dropping into 14.4 boost mode without some significant fiddling and effort. You could have had 14.4 rather than 13.7 which if your run time is short, will buy you quite a bit of charge current and amp hours. If you don't boondock much it isn't a problem but a PD unit might have immediately gone to 14.4 or at least with a pendant you could have forced it into that mode for shortened (or more effective) generator run times.

[Bama Rambler]

Great report. I think your converter/charger did a very respectable job. For only charging those big batteries 3 hours the first time, it did a good job.

[5picker]

Sounds respectable to me.
Thanks for the report.
I've thought about changing out my 8955 but like you, it seems to work OK.

[HONDAMAN174]

We do a fair amount of dry camping and used to have 2 g24 12v batteries. We are energy dependent and would take batteries to 50% every night (but DW was warm!). Took me a while to figure out why I had to run genny for 7 hours to recharge batteries cause WFCO would not go into boost mode. Switched to PD and that time dropped to about 3. Very happy now. Added amp meter also to see output. This weekend will be first dry camp with new 2 new 6v's. See how that goes.

[unyalli]

Sorry to say but you are destroying those GC2's. They want a regulated 10% to 13% of maximum amp hour capacity current until they hit 14.8 volts @ 77 degrees F (bulk). After that they want a regulated voltage of 14.8 (at the battery terminals) until charge amps drop to about 2% of amp hour capacity. These are rounded ball park figures. So GC2's are a bit over 200 amp hours in capacity and 6 volt so 2 in series equals 12 volts nominal and around 200 realistic amp hours. These batteries should be charged at 20 amps (10% of 200) or slightly higher until they reach 14.8 volts. When this voltage is reached it is held at 14.8 (absorb) until the charge current drops to around 2 amps. Next they transition to 13.2 volts float. No converter out there will do this. There are a number of advanced inverter/chargers that will Magnum and Victron seem to be in the lead. Equalize is another advanced topic.

- Jeff

[ScottBrownstein]

Aside from the 14.8, which I agree, no converter will do (solar charge controllers can do this and the Bogart 2030 is adjustable) my PD75 comes close with an average of 20 amps for the first 4 hours, voltage rising up to 14.4 and then drops to 13.6 with an average of 2 or 3 amps for the rest of the recharge. If you don't drop the voltage the higher charge current will continue unabated. Then on to float at 13.2 and virtually no current.

Not that bad.

[unyalli]

Originally Posted by ScottBrownstein

Aside from the 14.8, which I agree, no converter will do (solar charge controllers can do this and the Bogart 2030 is adjustable) my PD75 comes close with an average of 20 amps for the first 4 hours, voltage rising up to 14.4 and then drops to 13.6 with an average of 2 or 3 amps for the rest of the recharge. Then to float at 13.2 and virtually no current.

Not that bad.

agreed but if you want to bring in solar the only solar charger that will do the 14.8 till 2 amps is midnite solar with a wizbang Jr. and shunt. I've found no one else that will maintain absorb until ending amps are achieved instead of a guess.

The Kid 30 amps max or high end The classic 96 amps.

- Jeff

[ScottBrownstein]

Actually Bogart has a time or current setting and will maintain absorb until a user settable percentage of capacity is achieved. You can also set the absorb voltage as well as equalize voltages and operations. It gets it's values over a serial port from the Trimetric which has shunt and is doing coulomb counting. Frankly, I have considered putting a big power supply on an SC-2030 and using it as the perfect converter.

[unyalli]

Originally Posted by ScottBrownstein

Actually Bogart has a time or current setting and will maintain absorb until a user settable percentage of capacity is achieved. You can also set the absorb voltage as well as equalize voltages and operations. It gets it's values over a serial port from the Trimetric which has shunt and is doing coulomb counting. Frankly, I have considered putting a big power supply on an SC-2030 and using it as the perfect converter.

Cool but isn't the bogart pwm, antiquated tech?

[mnoland30]

You'll get better battery life if you run the generator a little each day instead of waiting until it runs all the way down to 12.1. I've forgotten the numbers, but life is extended if you keep the batteries above 80%.

I have the Bogart Engineering Trimetric SC 2030, so I can track my input and output. I have a 100 watt solar panel on the roof, and am careful with electric use like you are. I took my generator the first few trips, but don't take it anymore. Not needed.

A simple way to get higher voltage to charge your batteries to absolute top is to use a small solar panel. You don't actually have to have a charge controller if your panel is under 10 watts/battery. When I go hunting in my wall tent, I use electric lights. A 20 watt solar panel (with controller) will keep my RV battery charged forever, even in the winter.

I do live in the southwest, so we get lots of sun, but a good panel will give you some power even in cloudy weather or in the shade. If you want more info, read this blog https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/...ging-puzzle-2/

[ScottBrownstein]

Originally Posted by unyalli

Cool but isn't the bogart pwm, antiquated tech?

Not really. Perhaps for grid tied systems, but for RVs and less than 500 watts, MPPT really doesn't give you much of an advantage if any. MPPT shines when you want to series connect a few KWs of panels to keep the feed drops low. Most data shows it of minimal use at the lower end of the range. If you don't series connect it is of no use at all and series connection has its problems with shading, etc.

For me the design of the TM-2030 and the SC-2030 and their communication is the kicker. The SC gets its current and voltage data and max current and PW instructions from the TM and as such, it becomes a remote sense, every intelligent controller which compensates for feed losses and can optimize recharge based on experienced SOC. It is very user settable and even can equalize and adjust itself to a wide variety of battery brands and types.

[f5moab]

Originally Posted by ScottBrownstein

No not too bad, however, the WFCOs are noted for not automatically dropping into 14.4 boost mode without some significant fiddling and effort. You could have had 14.4 rather than 13.7 which if your run time is short, will buy you quite a bit of charge current and amp hours. If you don't boondock much it isn't a problem but a PD unit might have immediately gone to 14.4 or at least with a pendant you could have forced it into that mode for shortened (or more effective) generator run times.

I primarily boondock so what can you fiddle with to make the WFCO "drop" into a 14.4 mode? Mine will go to start up at 14.4 is the batteries are showing less than 13 volts, and then in a few days drop to 13.6 to maintain. But I have never found anything to mess with to make it back up to 14.4. (All voltage monitored via a Trimetric meter.)

[KyDan]

Nice to read the added conversation, thanks!

Some thoughts that pertain mostly to my situation.

My WFCO never went above 13.7 so I'm surprised yours does that.
The CG we were camping is FULL SHADE. There was a guy with 2 big
solar panels who said he got enough sun to top up but I'm not gonna
lug those big things around. And I never saw a light on inside his
trailer. We used our lights when needed. Also ran the fan over our bed
on low or med several nights.
I was testing my batteries to see if they still seemed to have good capacity so
I let them get down to 12.1 which is about 50% I believe? Should not hurt
them to do this once or twice in a year....
I got 3 days including 4 hours of TV so I'm happy.
Again I would not want to slam charge my batteries every time I start the
genny but I was asking how I might shorten the run time in those rare
occasions we do use it.
Thanks to you all I got my answers.

There were folks there who started their generators at 8 AM and never shut them off until 8 PM. I saw a couple who had dual Honda's running to keep the roof AC on while they sat outside in lawn chairs....

I thought I was cool to only run mine twice for limited time and still watch
2 of my Jesse Stone movies!

[ScottBrownstein]

Originally Posted by f5moab

I primarily boondock so what can you fiddle with to make the WFCO "drop" into a 14.4 mode?

I do not have a WFCO, but have followed may posters and read a lot about the limitations of the design. It appears that the WFCO gets "fooled" by the voltage drop in the cabling and thinks that the batteries are in a better state then they actually are. When it puts amperage down the feed it sees battery voltage PLUS the cabling drop and simply won't go into boost since it can not recognize the actual battery state. Strange that the PD and others are able to do this with the same wiring.

What you have to do is get the WFCO to "think" that the bank is below 13 volts or lower. Some have done this successfully by putting a battery tester on the batteries (or firing up an inverter with a significant load) and then powering up the WFCO. Apparently it takes this low voltage for around 10 seconds and it will drop into boost and stay there for 4 hours, just like the other converters. I do not know if you need to restart the WFCo during this procedure but it seems that most do that as well.

Real pain in the ass. As B Clemens has indicated, they did these test themselves at Dynamax and switched to 100% PD units. As far as the pendant is concerned, I believe that PD has a patent on it which prevents WFCO from copying the idea.

[KyDan]

I have a "smart charger" stand alone 2-10-25-start "Power on Board" charger.
When I first connect it and start a charge it charges for a few seconds and
then shuts off and I'm guessing- looks at the battery voltage- then goes to
full charge mode.
The WFCO could do that but it would take more of a "brain" and it doesn't
have it.

My Power on Board charger went the way of many others I've read about online and took a dump. Now when I
try to use it on any battery it starts- stops and takes a look and then shows
an "open cell" error. I guess it's junk. Not even a good boat anchor since it's
light weight....

[NMWildcat]

Sounds like the OP has a system that works just fine for him. Why fix what's not broke?

We boondock for weeks at a time with a factory WFCO, 2 12v Interstate Marine series 27 batteries, and 2 Honda EU2000s. Batteries last an avg of 4.5 years. The batteries are 30' from the converter with factory wires.

We run the generator a few hours in the morning (coffee pot) and a few hours at night (tv). Longer if we need A/C. We never hesitate to turn on lights or use the heater when on battery. Batteries last all night and recharge just fine.

You can throw money at it to upgrade the system, but as long as it works for your needs, why?

The OP seems to have a good handle on using his system. Congrats and enjoy!

[ScottBrownstein]

Actually, the OP solicited comments by asking if he could do better with a different setup. While it isn't a problem, I hate to run a genny and not maximize what my converter puts into the house bank. You can't make coffee for 3 or 4 hours, so its nice to get the maximum value from that short run time. WFCO converters are well known for not going into boost mode...and his seems to fit right in with everybody else's experience. His bank was low enough to merit a 3 or 4 hour boost charge.

I have stock in neither company!

[KyDan]

All valid points!

If I was NMWildcat I'd definitely upgrade my charger.
I think it's kinda neat to use a stove top percolator just for fun and old
time sake.

As for me- I was very curious and got my answers. That honda had been
sitting on the shelf -drained- for over a year. It was due for a dust off.
Our camping doesn't make a $230+ charger upgrade sound like good economics to me but I'd take the plunge if we dry camped more often.

[jonshonda]

I think a lot of us boondocking types might have a hard time understanding the converters in are campers are more for "price point" then quality. The factory supplied converters are intended to charge a single group 24 battery (or whatever cheap ass tiny battery the dealer installed) it came with. Not a bank of 2-4 big hungry batteries.

It would be nice if there was a boondocking package the FR offered, which would upgrade some of the electrical components on the camper. Get credit towards a nice PD converter and some 4ga wiring maybe? Along with switches to turn off convenience items that are power hungry.

I don't like having to pay for an item I am just going to have to replace or consider it worthless when its brand new.