Wfco says I have a bad converter

[quicky06]

So there’s a thread around here somewhere about me upgrading to dual 6 v golf cart batteries and upgrading the wiring from the batteries to the control box/converter to 1/0 welding cable due to the 33 foot run. I also installed a vectron battery monitor.

Well I never actually tested my converter output after the fact. As it was A 2018 trailer purchased in April.

So while at deer camp I got a low voltage alarm from my vectron but the battery discharge percentage wasnnt below 80 percent. So I reconfigured the alarms.

Well I decided a couple weeks ago to discharge the batteries to 60percent for the first time and see how long it takes to charge so I have an iidea. What I found was the converter is rated for 55 amps but will start at 25-30 amps and quickly drop ( over a minute) to 10-15 amps.

I know this isn’t a wiring problem because I replaced the 6 gauge wire they ran to prevent this.

Called them and they say the converter is bad.

Now to my question. What are the chances a new wfco converter will actuallly fix this?

I am in the process of pricing out a heating pad system for all 4 tanks, exposed piping and some other things to allow colder wet camping. But it doesn’t matter if I can’t power the pads because the converter can’t handle it.

[Flybob]

You might consider replacing the converter with a Progressive Dynamics especially with your set up. PDI converters are usually rated much higher. Will not be covered under warranty, but you will be better off in the long run.

[quicky06]

Originally Posted by Flybob

You might consider replacing the converter with a Progressive Dynamics especially with your set up. PDI converters are usually rated much higher. Will not be covered under warranty, but you will be better off in the long run.

That’s what I figured. I ran wiring for 80-90 amp charger with the intention of upgrading if needed. But I didn’t expect it to happen this soon. Progressive dynamics are nice but they are proud of them and I’ll have to figure out where to put it and how to wire it as it won’t fit.

They are sending me a new unit so I plan on swapping it out just to see but don’t have very high hopes.

There’s no point in putting in 30 plus amps of heating pads if my converter doesn’t put out atleast that much amperage as I won’t be able to run hem all at once even when plugged in.

[5picker]

I think I'd wait and see what the new converter does.
PD's have a good reputation but that doesn't automatically make all WFCO's junk.

[garbonz]

For one thing, WFCO’s are junk. What the victron is telling you is NORMAL, most for the converters taper off really fast and the rated power is the maximum.

Even a brand new PD 9245 will rarely charge at 45 amps, even in bulk mode.

PD was bought out, and I have experienced a bit less enthusiastic support from the new company, and they are a high volume mfg. now with Winnebago and other using them as OEM. Still the best option.

Your new WFCO will most likely be the same as the old one.

That Victron gets people in trouble all the time, since they can actually see what is really going on. Ignorance is bliss.

[Bluepill]

Here is the deal with WFCO:

It is actually a 3 stage converter. 14.4 volts in Bulk mode, 13.6 volts in absorption mode, and 13.2 volts in float mode.

The problem is that bulk mode usually only switches on when the battery bank is BELOW 12.0 volts - i.e. over 50% discharged. Even if it switches on, it will drop to the 13.6 volt level well before the batteries are charged up to their 80% state of charge level, which is where well-designed converter/chargers switch. It then takes many, many hours at 13.6 volts to bring the batteries up to about 90% state of charge, and they never really reach 100%.

I suspect that this intentional design strategy is because the WFCO is under-designed and might fail if actually putting out it's full amperage for a long period of time.

It might be wise to monitor the voltage as well as the amps on your current WFCO to confirm this, and then re-test with the new one connected.

[MadDog2020]

I’ve had batteries below 12 volts and have never seen the converter go into bulk mode. My bench charger will immediately go to bulk when the battery is discharged. I’m really considering a PD. I got that recommendation from several people on the Forum.

[quicky06]

Well the new converter is here. It will be Friday before I can touch it.

[hollywood91]

When you are testing the new converter, you should measure the voltage at the battery as well as the charging current (you'll need 2 meters). The charging section monitors the battery voltage to determine which charging state is used. Output from the charger will taper off over time. It should not 'bulk' charge for more than 4 hours. In bulk charge mode, if you have a full 120vac input, you should see 14.4 to 14.6 volts on the battery with a current in excess of 25 amps. I would doubt that you will ever get a 45 amp charge from a 45 or 55 amp converter. There are other DC loads and efficiency factors to consider. My 55 amp bulk charges at 25 to 30 amps depending upon input AC voltage. At 110 volts AC in, I can't get a bulk charge out of over 20 amps. Good luck with the new unit. Cheers Ed

[Skyliner]

Here is a surefire way, 100% guaranteed, to ensure that your converter (new or old) is GOOD.

If the converter says WFCO it is bad, if it says Progressive Dynamics, it is GOOD.

It is THAT easy. Please don't waste your time by putting another WFCO into it. Get a Progressive Dyanamics and install it unless you plan on selling your camper soon.

My PD converter has the intellicharger pendant and I always force it into bulk mode. With about 800 amp hours of battery capacity, I see the full 90 amp output on the rare occasion when I use my generator instead of my sunshine to charge the batteries.

[quicky06]

Well put from work with the flu today. Doctor told me
To rest so.....
I got the converter installed. Only issue was the replacement unit has shorter dc worse than the oem one.

It works. But it’s going to take 6-8 hours before I can test it because I need to drain batteries. I’m running everything dc I can but the downside of planning to boondock is that with everything running is only a 7 amp draw. Ill let you know what happens tomorrow.

On a side not the only thing I wish this VictronConnect could do is record and graph info.

[Bluepill]

This unit might be a good bet....

https://www.amazon.com/bayite-6-5-10...te+DC+6.5-100V


If you really desire extended data logging capacity, there are lots of units here:

https://www.omega.com/subsection/pro...a-loggers.html

[quicky06]

Well ran a quick test at 85 percent battery soc.

Immediate charging amperage was 50 amps and over two minutes drop to 19 amps at 13.58 volts.

I’m going to let it drain overnight and see what it does around 60’percent.

[quicky06]

So it still won’t go into bulk mode at 60 percent SOC

13.58 volts. Started at 50 amps thendwindles down to 20. So it’s an improvement over the other one by a little.

I think I’m going to have to budget a new converter in to my summer plans of heating and isolating all the plumbing.

I’m looking at rated amperage of 45-50 amps dc so I’m concerned but will have to see what happens

[TitanMike]

Out of curiosity, how long does it take to go from 60% SOC to 100%.

40% of a 100 AH battery won't need much time or voltage to replace while on an 800 AH battery bank like earlier mentioned, 40% SOC will require a lot more time and consequently a larger converter.

Due to charging inefficiencies and battery internal resistance voltages can rise quickly and result in lower charge rates (current) but the amount of time to replace the 40-50 amp hours of capacity is probably only 2-3 hours.

I figure that as long as my batteries charge with in 2-3 hours I'm doing fine. That's less than half a tank on my Inverter.

In short, the charge rate and how long it remains high is going to be a function of the size of your battery bank. Little battery, quick charge. BIG battery, all day (maybe).

[quicky06]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Out of curiosity, how long does it take to go from 60% SOC to 100%.

40% of a 100 AH battery won't need much time or voltage to replace while on an 800 AH battery bank like earlier mentioned, 40% SOC will require a lot more time and consequently a larger converter.

Due to charging inefficiencies and battery internal resistance voltages can rise quickly and result in lower charge rates (current) but the amount of time to replace the 40-50 amp hours of capacity is probably only 2-3 hours.

I figure that as long as my batteries charge with in 2-3 hours I'm doing fine. That's less than half a tank on my Inverter.

In short, the charge rate and how long it remains high is going to be a function of the size of your battery bank. Little battery, quick charge. BIG battery, all day (maybe).

60-70 percent took an hour.

My big concern is that if I put a constant say 40 plus amp load on the 12v system can the converter keep up. Even if it’s an 80 amp converter instead of the 55 I have

Back story is I plan on running 12 v heat pads on all 4 tanks, all 3 valves and several elbows.

I realize that I cannot runnthis off my two 6 volt batteries for any length of time. I want to be able to extend my wet camping into as cold as possible. At deer camp I run my 3500 predator all night and can heat the tanks all night which should stop isssues with freezing if I can run the pads 8 hours a day. When camping with my wife we will be plugged in at a campsite so I have power that way.

I just need to make sure that I a converter that can take
The loads of the heat pads.

[MadDog2020]

So, you are seeing the same thing I am. No matter how low the SoC is it never goes to bulk mode. I plan to change mine out in the next few days weeks. Going camping next weekend but will have full hookup for that trip.

[quicky06]

Originally Posted by MadDog2020

So, you are seeing the same thing I am. No matter how low the SoC is it never goes to bulk mode. I plan to change mine out in the next few days weeks. Going camping next weekend but will have full hookup for that trip.

So far. But I have never taken the batteries lower than 60 percent.

I still have the original battery for the trailer. It’s tempting to put it in and see what kind of amperage it will put out

[HONDAMAN174]

FWIW- never could get my WFCO into bulk. Even after dealer let it go dead for service.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by quicky06

My big concern is that if I put a constant say 40 plus amp load on the 12v system can the converter keep up. Even if it’s an 80 amp converter instead of the 55 I have

As with all things electrical heat is the concern.

Do however take into consideration that you shouldn't just focus on "Amps". At 12 V, 40 amps, you're only talking about 480 watts. As long as the cooling fan runs when under this load, and there is plenty of circulation in the converter's compartment, there should be no issue. Naturally the wire size has to be proper for the amperage.. Low voltage takes BIG wire, high voltage can deliver the same wattage with much smaller wire.

Bigger converters can deliver higher currents but still at the same voltage. If the wiring between converter and battery bank has too much resistance the charge current will always be lower even if you put a 200 amp converter in line.

If your battery(s) charged from 60% to 100% in an hour, regardless of what mode the charger was in, that's not all that bad.

As for the converter "keeping up", it should as long as you don't run high current demand items like tongue jack, slide, etc. When the converter doesn't keep up, battery(s) make up the deficit but as those loads are intermittent, as soon as they go offline the battery(s) resume charge.

FWIW, one of the reasons car makers stopped putting gauges in the instrument cluster to monitor a lot of systems is that people spent too much time looking at the gauges and obsessing over the readings. That's why "idiot lights" became the norm.

If the batteries charge, and equipment runs, relax and enjoy.