Why not a single 50 amp leg in place of the 30 amp?

[ScottBrownstein]

Originally Posted by nomad297

Would it be possible to wire for a 240 volt appliance if you have a 50 amp service?

Bruce

Sure it would be possible, since 50 amp service is really 50 amp/240 volt, but most RV panels are not designed to allow it. Instead of parallel buss bars like the panel in your house, the buss bars are not aligned to allow a duplex breaker to connect to both legs simultaneously. Maybe they make one that way, but I have never seen it.

[cavie]

Originally Posted by nomad297

Would it be possible to wire for a 240 volt appliance if you have a 50 amp service?

Bruce

A 50 amp panel is in fact a 240 volt panel. It has L1 and L2 feeding it. BUT it is designed in such a way that you cannot install a 2 pole breaker and access 240 volts. It has 2 separate 120 legs. Hence you can conceivably access 100 amps of 120 volts if you had a mine to and it would be very safe. BUT there is absolutely no reason to do that. Go over 50 amps on either leg and it will trip.

[cavie]

Originally Posted by ScottBrownstein

Sure it would be possible, since 50 amp service is really 50 amp/240 volt, but most RV panels are not designed to allow it. Instead of parallel buss bars like the panel in your house, the buss bars are not aligned to allow a duplex breaker to connect to both legs simultaneously. Maybe they make one that way, but I have never seen it.

The rigs mentioned in post #17 have that but people that own those rigs don't hang out here with as small people.

[ScottBrownstein]

Originally Posted by cavie

[/COLOR]

The rigs mentioned in post #17 have that but people that own those rigs don't hang out here with as small people.

Well, but then what happens when something breaks??????

[cavie]

Originally Posted by ScottBrownstein

Well, but then what happens when something breaks??????

Most have it fixed. They take it to the dealer and it sits for months. A very large dealer in Fort Myers Fl has a 1-year waiting list for repairs.
this is inside information. Not just talk.

[ScottBrownstein]

Totally agree. I have always told people that they should learn to fix their own RV, or it is going to be very expensive and sit for a large portion of the time on some dealer's lot. Then, even when they "fix" it, it ain't necessarily fixed!

Totally agree with those who say that your RV has to be your hobby, just like a boat.

[Cypressloser]

Originally Posted by Ilovemywife

I agree, 30 amp service just doesn't make sense when you can pull 50 amps off of one leg of a 50 amp service box.

I plan on upgrading to 50 amps soon. I need the extra power to run 3 1500 watt heaters this winter. One for under the camper under skirting, one in bedroom, and one in main living area. As it is, I'm tired of having to shut the hot water heater when I need to run the microwave and air conditioner at the same time.

Upgrading isn't difficult, just a little bit of elbow grease to run new wire, new outlets, and a new distribution panel.

We have 50 Amp but for space heaters I still feel more comfortable pulling a 12 awg ext. cord from an outside 20 Amp GFCI and bypass the converter panel altogether. There are only 2 outlets in the RV that I kind off trust, one is the fireplace and the other is the microwave both on a dedicated 20 Amp circuit.

[tfmdgm]

Why not just trade in that 30 amp trailer and get a 50 amp trailer. Problem solved.

[B and B]

Originally Posted by formerFR

I agree that the thought is about things that you 'could' do, to bring in more power to your 30amp RV, but no one here is going to use this forum as their electrical advisory panel and go out and do that.... it's just talk about the possibility of it. Don't get your feathers ruffled- most of us are just dreaming about things we 'wish' were possible.

I'll agree, though, with the electrical professionals - there are probably many reasons why switching out a 30amp breaker with a 50amp one is not just a simple change out. The effects are usually much farther reaching than the 'simple' we sometimes think things are.

I'll also agree, though, with those who desire to find ways to be creative and provide more power to their RV. There are certainly devices in the market that help, but there are also times when no matter how many adapters and dogbones you have, if you only have a single 30amp outlet and breaker, you have limited choices. Discussing the possibilities is interesting, as well as why the industry uses it as a 'standard' RV outlet size.

'Can' you change some things and easily bring in more power to your RV? Probably, and I'm sure many have, over the years, in special situations, especially where you are parked for a very lengthy stay. Are their changes per code? Probably not. Will their changes likely 'kill' somebody? Probably not.

There IS a learning curve when it comes to electricity in mobile scenarios, like RVs. We have several different power sources, and sometimes this, in itself, adds to the curve. Sometimes we have 30amp service in our RV, and we innocently believe that those who have a 50amp coach simply have 20amps more of power. This is where the curve comes into play - 50amp service is 100amps of power, shared by a common Neutral, and protected by a Double-Pole 50amp breaker, meaning TWO hot legs into the RV. So, in effect, more than TRIPLE the amount of usable 120v power than 30amp service.

While there are plenty of folks with 120v combo Washers and Dryers, there are also some higher-end coaches with 240v dryers, AND/or 240v stove tops, especially on the newer 'all electric' motorcoaches. They REQUIRE true 50amp RV service to operate these appliances, and their onboard Breaker Panels split service to 120v to TWO sides of sets of breakers for most things, AND provide double-pole breakers for the 240v appliances.

It's not a far-fetched conversation to have about why rv parks and campgrounds can't just simply provide a 50amp breaker for electrical service in place of the current 30amp breaker(heck, why not just change it out to a 100amp breaker?), but the consequences and other requirements are more than just the size of the wiring to handle the additional amps.



Fun, though! : ) Keep the ideas coming...

Name one that has a 220 volt dryer?

[10Ranger]

Originally Posted by Ilovemywife

I agree, 30 amp service just doesn't make sense when you can pull 50 amps off of one leg of a 50 amp service box.

I plan on upgrading to 50 amps soon. I need the extra power to run 3 1500 watt heaters this winter. One for under the camper under skirting, one in bedroom, and one in main living area. As it is, I'm tired of having to shut the hot water heater when I need to run the microwave and air conditioner at the same time.

Upgrading isn't difficult, just a little bit of elbow grease to run new wire, new outlets, and a new distribution panel.

I believe in the KISS principal. Why not just run an extension cord to at least one of your heaters if you have a 20 amp receptacle available? Sounds like a conversion is pretty complicated.

[valleyduo]

Originally Posted by formerFR

I agree that the thought is about things that you 'could' do, to bring in more power to your 30amp RV, but no one here is going to use this forum as their electrical advisory panel and go out and do that.... it's just talk about the possibility of it. Don't get your feathers ruffled- most of us are just dreaming about things we 'wish' were possible.

I'll agree, though, with the electrical professionals - there are probably many reasons why switching out a 30amp breaker with a 50amp one is not just a simple change out. The effects are usually much farther reaching than the 'simple' we sometimes think things are.

I'll also agree, though, with those who desire to find ways to be creative and provide more power to their RV. There are certainly devices in the market that help, but there are also times when no matter how many adapters and dogbones you have, if you only have a single 30amp outlet and breaker, you have limited choices. Discussing the possibilities is interesting, as well as why the industry uses it as a 'standard' RV outlet size.

'Can' you change some things and easily bring in more power to your RV? Probably, and I'm sure many have, over the years, in special situations, especially where you are parked for a very lengthy stay. Are their changes per code? Probably not. Will their changes likely 'kill' somebody? Probably not.

There IS a learning curve when it comes to electricity in mobile scenarios, like RVs. We have several different power sources, and sometimes this, in itself, adds to the curve. Sometimes we have 30amp service in our RV, and we innocently believe that those who have a 50amp coach simply have 20amps more of power. This is where the curve comes into play - 50amp service is 100amps of power, shared by a common Neutral, and protected by a Double-Pole 50amp breaker, meaning TWO hot legs into the RV. So, in effect, more than TRIPLE the amount of usable 120v power than 30amp service.

While there are plenty of folks with 120v combo Washers and Dryers, there are also some higher-end coaches with 240v dryers, AND/or 240v stove tops, especially on the newer 'all electric' motorcoaches. They REQUIRE true 50amp RV service to operate these appliances, and their onboard Breaker Panels split service to 120v to TWO sides of sets of breakers for most things, AND provide double-pole breakers for the 240v appliances.

It's not a far-fetched conversation to have about why rv parks and campgrounds can't just simply provide a 50amp breaker for electrical service in place of the current 30amp breaker(heck, why not just change it out to a 100amp breaker?), but the consequences and other requirements are more than just the size of the wiring to handle the additional amps.



Fun, though! : ) Keep the ideas coming...

A 240 volt dryer takes a 30amp duplex breaker. Not really familiar with the cook tops, but lets assume the same. With 2 ACs and hot water heater running, 50 amps would not likely hold.

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by B and B

Name one that has a 220 volt dryer?

Newmar Essex:


https://www.newmarcorp.com/luxury-mo...ssex/features/


Appliances

Standard

• Stainless Steel Convection Microwave
• All-Electric with Flush Mount Induction Cooktop
• Air Horns
• Whirlpool Stainless Steel 19.7 Cf Refrigerator with Water Dispenser
• Hardwood Overlay for Refrigerator Panels
• Whirlpool Two-Piece Stacked Washer and 220 Volt Dryer
• Dometic 3.77 Cf Freezer on Pullout Tray in Exterior Compartment
• Fireplace in Living Area
• Central Vacuum with Tool Kit

[Ilovemywife]

Speaking of 50 amp power/fuse panels, can someone recommend a good one that DOESN'T have 12 volt fuses or a built in converter? I can live with the 12 volt fuses which I would never use as I don't want to rewire all of the 12 volt stuff.

I have plenty of room to install a another power panel so I can convert to 50 amps. I will keep my 30 amp as an output from the 50amp power panel which has all of my DC fuses and use the remainder panel to power my electric heaters I need this winter.

Thanks!

PS Yes, I know the wiring and plug has to be upgraded. Its only a 7 foot run of wiring from the wall to the power panel site. I will use 4 gauge wiring which should be sufficient.

PSS Someone stated that RV power panel bus bars aren't designed to handle 50 amps but from what I've seen several power panels are rated as either 30 amp or 50 amp service? I'm pretty knowledgeable with electricity but just want to make sure I get a panel that can handle 50 amps.

[BandJCarm]

Bring me more electrons! I need big, big buckets of Electrons! My Precious!! Ummmm. I love bunches of Electrons.

LOL

I suspect the reason it's 30 amp is because 99.3902839% of all campgrounds have 30 amp at the pedestal. So, manufacturers make them in every trailer that they possibly can.

[Duckogram]

This thread evokes visions of Tim Taylor “rewiring it” followed by the trademark baboon grunt.
In Tribute: https://youtu.be/0V9YZ7C88iU

[ScottBrownstein]

Originally Posted by Ilovemywife

Speaking of 50 amp power/fuse panels, can someone recommend a good....

Progressive dynamics has a 50 amp panel that has no 12 volt section. They make a companion 12 volt panel.

[cavie]

Originally Posted by Ilovemywife

Speaking of 50 amp power/fuse panels, can someone recommend a good one that DOESN'T have 12 volt fuses or a built in converter? I can live with the 12 volt fuses which I would never use as I don't want to rewire all of the 12 volt stuff.

I have plenty of room to install a another power panel so I can convert to 50 amps. I will keep my 30 amp as an output from the 50amp power panel which has all of my DC fuses and use the remainder panel to power my electric heaters I need this winter.

Thanks!

PS Yes, I know the wiring and plug has to be upgraded. Its only a 7 foot run of wiring from the wall to the power panel site. I will use 4 gauge wiring which should be sufficient.

PSS Someone stated that RV power panel bus bars aren't designed to handle 50 amps but from what I've seen several power panels are rated as either 30 amp or 50 amp service? I'm pretty knowledgeable with electricity but just want to make sure I get a panel that can handle 50 amps.

30 amp RV panels are rated at 30 amps. 50 amp RV panels are rated at 50 amps.

[ScottBrownstein]

You can do that if you can find a 30 amp breaker for the new 50 amp panel. That will probably be best since you may not have enough slots on 1/2 of a 50 amp panel for your existing breakers. Using two panels is a good idea. Your 30 amp panel becomes a sub panel on the 50 amp panel and the additional slots on the 50 amp panel can feed your new loads.

[TitanMike]

I seriously doubt that going to a single leg 50 amp power setup would be enough for some people. It would just lead to more and more appliances being brought along and that setup would be overloaded before the first season was over.

I lived overseas for a couple of years where the voltage standard for a residence was 220-240 volt. Same size wires could deliver twice the power (watts) which allowed smaller size wires to be used on low power draw circuits or more outlets per wire run than are currently allowed by code with 120v service.

To me that makes more sense than trying to continue upsizing our current 120V power supplies. Price out 50 feet of the heavier cord. Also consider the weight of that larger cord.

The current setup is pretty much what we'll be stuck with due to all the legacy 120v devices in service unless we all want to buy transformers (Like I had to do when overseas).

Here in the US (and UK too) we're still operating on a standard that was set in 1882 by Thomas Edison with modifications over the years when Alternating Current became the standard. People were afraid of electrocution from high voltages so we got stuck with the lower voltage as a standard for residential power.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by 10Ranger

I believe in the KISS principal. Why not just run an extension cord to at least one of your heaters if you have a 20 amp receptacle available?

Even simpler, dress warmer during the day and snuggle closer at night