Why not a single 50 amp leg in place of the 30 amp?

[dcheatwood]

Haven't seen this here before, so light it up.
Ever wonder why there is a 30 amp (3600 watts) and not a single leg 50 amp with the 6000 watts?
Perhaps it because wiring is lighter and cheaper, or 30 is all that's needed for basic RV appliances? Seems like a single leg 50 amp would solve the problem with breakers throwing when a/c, water heater, microwave and hairdryer are all runny. This is obviously not my field of expertise so I'm anxious to read your techy thoughts.

[ejohnson1144]

Its all about wire size and cost

[Ilovemywife]

I agree, 30 amp service just doesn't make sense when you can pull 50 amps off of one leg of a 50 amp service box.

I plan on upgrading to 50 amps soon. I need the extra power to run 3 1500 watt heaters this winter. One for under the camper under skirting, one in bedroom, and one in main living area. As it is, I'm tired of having to shut the hot water heater when I need to run the microwave and air conditioner at the same time.

Upgrading isn't difficult, just a little bit of elbow grease to run new wire, new outlets, and a new distribution panel.

[ejohnson1144]

Originally Posted by Ilovemywife

I agree, 30 amp service just doesn't make sense when you can pull 50 amps off of one leg of a 50 amp service box.

I plan on upgrading to 50 amps soon. I need the extra power to run 3 1500 watt heaters this winter. One for under the camper under skirting, one in bedroom, and one in main living area. As it is, I'm tired of having to shut the hot water heater when I need to run the microwave and air conditioner at the same time.

Upgrading isn't difficult, just a little bit of elbow grease to run new wire, new outlets, and a new distribution panel.

Make sure you upgrade wiring in the rv add more outlets. Hate to see ya burn your rv up

[Duckogram]

It’s all 120v so it would work but the list of components that would have to be made/modified to accomodate such a change would be long and costly.

[SailorSam20500]

Originally Posted by dcheatwood

Haven't seen this here before, so light it up.
Ever wonder why there is a 30 amp (3600 watts) and not a single leg 50 amp with the 6000 watts?

I have no real knowledge, but....
I'll bet that when campgrounds started supplying power, it was 15 or 20 amp. Then A/Cs came along. Campgrounds responded by providing 30 amp. I figure not many folks had rigs that really needed more power. That became something of a standard. 50 amp is probably a more "recent" upgrade as people got into bigger rigs and started glamping instead of camping...
I agree that single leg 50 amp would be nice, but manufacturers would just add more "stuff" and we would soon be back to worrying about total load popping breakers!
We need someone who has been at this for a long time to chime in.

[Big Bill]

Don’t RV dryers and electric stoves need 50 amp with 220 volt to run them ,

[Splitshaft]

The proposed setup is really easy. Obtain at least 8-gauge, 2 conductor with ground outdoor cord. Obtain a 50-amp plug and install it on the end of the cord leaving one hot leg prong of plug so no wire is connected to it. Connect the hot wire (black) to one of the hot leg prongs on the plug, connect the ground wire (green) to the ground prong and the neutral wire (white) to the neutral prong. Replace the 30-amp circuit breaker with a 50 amp and done. Just use a 30 to 50 amp dog bone adapter if no 50 amp receptacle is available. The shore power 30-amp circuit breaker will trip if too much current is drawn, not the 50 in the coach. I wouldn't go to the effort as 30-amps is plenty for me. If a lot of folks did this it would have the potential to cause one side of the utility power transformer to go low and the other side to go high if the load was not balanced as is not the case with true 50-amp service where power is more balanced across both legs of the utility transformer.

[B and B]

Originally Posted by Splitshaft

The proposed setup is really easy. Obtain at least 8-gauge, 2 conductor with ground outdoor cord. Obtain a 50-amp plug and install it on the end of the cord leaving one hot leg prong of plug so no wire is connected to it. Connect the hot wire (black) to one of the hot leg prongs on the plug, connect the ground wire (green) to the ground prong and the neutral wire (white) to the neutral prong. Replace the 30-amp circuit breaker with a 50 amp and done. Just use a 30 to 50 amp dog bone adapter if no 50 amp receptacle is available. The shore power 30-amp circuit breaker will trip if too much current is drawn, not the 50 in the coach. I wouldn't go to the effort as 30-amps is plenty for me. If a lot of folks did this it would have the potential to cause one side of the utility power transformer to go low and the other side to go high if the load was not balanced as is not the case with true 50-amp service where power is more balanced across both legs of the utility transformer.

And what electrical code applies to this upgrade? I doubt the panel buss bar in the trailer distribution is rated at 50 amps. This has over heating connections, fire and death all over it.

[Dcbenny]

I added 3 more outlets 2 in kitchen so DW can plug in coffee pot or toaster oven and 1 in bathroom for hairdryer and wired an additional shore line that plugs into the 20amp breaker on the pedestal this way when using these items it doesn’t draw off of the MH 30amp circuit

[cavie]

Originally Posted by Big Bill

Don’t RV dryers and electric stoves need 50 amp with 220 volt to run them ,

Haven't heard of electric stove yet. RV dryers are 120 volt and don't work very well. VERY small loads.

[cavie]

Originally Posted by Splitshaft

The proposed setup is really easy. Obtain at least 8-gauge, 2 conductor with ground outdoor cord. Obtain a 50-amp plug and install it on the end of the cord leaving one hot leg prong of plug so no wire is connected to it. Connect the hot wire (black) to one of the hot leg prongs on the plug, connect the ground wire (green) to the ground prong and the neutral wire (white) to the neutral prong. Replace the 30-amp circuit breaker with a 50 amp and done. Just use a 30 to 50 amp dog bone adapter if no 50 amp receptacle is available. The shore power 30-amp circuit breaker will trip if too much current is drawn, not the 50 in the coach. I wouldn't go to the effort as 30-amps is plenty for me. If a lot of folks did this it would have the potential to cause one side of the utility power transformer to go low and the other side to go high if the load was not balanced as is not the case with true 50-amp service where power is more balanced across both legs of the utility transformer.

My blood boils when I see non-electricians giving out electric advice when they don't have a clue what they are talking about. You left out one key ingredient in your thoughts. The main distribution panel. It has bussbars and lugs the wires and the breakers hook onto. Theses buss bars are rated for only 30 amps If you put a 50 load on them with a 50 amp breaker you WILL
create a fire meltdown issue. Also, you will need a #6 copper wire for 50 amp load. Read a National Electric code book.

Another item you know nothing about. This changeout can be done but you must change out the main panel with a 50 amp RV style panel. Not sold at HD. It is designed with the buss bars alined so you cannot access 240 volts with a two pole breaker. Only the main can access both buss bars.

Grounds and neutrals must be separated in the panel. Grounds must be connected to the panel (If metal). Neutrals must be isolated from metal.

Please refrain from giving out electric advice before some newbie tries it and gets killed.

[cavie]

Originally Posted by B and B

And what electrical code applies to this upgrade? I doubt the panel buss bar in the trailer distribution is rated at 50 amps. This has over heating connections, fire and death all over it.

[Macrosill]

Originally Posted by SailorSam20500

I have no real knowledge, but....
I'll bet that when campgrounds started supplying power, it was 15 or 20 amp. Then A/Cs came along. Campgrounds responded by providing 30 amp. I figure not many folks had rigs that really needed more power. That became something of a standard. 50 amp is probably a more "recent" upgrade as people got into bigger rigs and started glamping instead of camping...
I agree that single leg 50 amp would be nice, but manufacturers would just add more "stuff" and we would soon be back to worrying about total load popping breakers!
We need someone who has been at this for a long time to chime in.

I believe this is the reason why we have a standard 30a 120v supply on most units and the 50a 240v supply on the larger units and anything with more than 1 A/C.

Maybe in a few years we will all get 200a 240v at the pedestal so we can run anything we want and then run out of power and then wonder why we are so limited. LOL. Round and round we go.

[ScottBrownstein]

Originally Posted by Splitshaft

The proposed setup is really easy. Obtain at least 8-gauge, 2 conductor with ground outdoor cord....

ahh, not exactly. First off, #8 ain't enough, #6 for 50 amps. Second, if you replace the 30 amp breaker in the panel and the feed is a 50 amp duplex breaker in the pedestal, where is this 30 amp breaker that will trip? There isn't one! The OP needs a new panel, rated for 50 amps. If he is going to go to all that trouble, why not change the wiring inside the RV that goes to the panel as well...and take the whole thing up to 50 amp service?

Half way won't do it.

[ejohnson1144]

Originally Posted by cavie

My blood boils when I see non-electricians giving out electric advice when they don't have a clue what they are talking about. You left out one key ingredient in your thoughts. The main distribution panel. It has bussbars and lugs the wires and the breakers hook onto. Theses buss bars are rated for only 30 amps If you put a 50 load on them with a 50 amp breaker you WILL
create a fire meltdown issue. Also, you will need a #6 copper wire for 50 amp load. Read a National Electric code book.

Another item you know nothing about. This changeout can be done but you must change out the main panel with a 50 amp RV style panel. Not sold at HD. It is designed with the buss bars alined so you cannot access 240 volts with a two pole breaker. Only the main can access both buss bars.

Grounds and neutrals must be separated in the panel. Grounds must be connected to the panel (If metal). Neutrals must be isolated from metal.

Please refrain from giving out electric advice before some newbie tries it and gets killed.

Ditto

[formerFR]

I agree that the thought is about things that you 'could' do, to bring in more power to your 30amp RV, but no one here is going to use this forum as their electrical advisory panel and go out and do that.... it's just talk about the possibility of it. Don't get your feathers ruffled- most of us are just dreaming about things we 'wish' were possible.

I'll agree, though, with the electrical professionals - there are probably many reasons why switching out a 30amp breaker with a 50amp one is not just a simple change out. The effects are usually much farther reaching than the 'simple' we sometimes think things are.

I'll also agree, though, with those who desire to find ways to be creative and provide more power to their RV. There are certainly devices in the market that help, but there are also times when no matter how many adapters and dogbones you have, if you only have a single 30amp outlet and breaker, you have limited choices. Discussing the possibilities is interesting, as well as why the industry uses it as a 'standard' RV outlet size.

'Can' you change some things and easily bring in more power to your RV? Probably, and I'm sure many have, over the years, in special situations, especially where you are parked for a very lengthy stay. Are their changes per code? Probably not. Will their changes likely 'kill' somebody? Probably not.

There IS a learning curve when it comes to electricity in mobile scenarios, like RVs. We have several different power sources, and sometimes this, in itself, adds to the curve. Sometimes we have 30amp service in our RV, and we innocently believe that those who have a 50amp coach simply have 20amps more of power. This is where the curve comes into play - 50amp service is 100amps of power, shared by a common Neutral, and protected by a Double-Pole 50amp breaker, meaning TWO hot legs into the RV. So, in effect, more than TRIPLE the amount of usable 120v power than 30amp service.

While there are plenty of folks with 120v combo Washers and Dryers, there are also some higher-end coaches with 240v dryers, AND/or 240v stove tops, especially on the newer 'all electric' motorcoaches. They REQUIRE true 50amp RV service to operate these appliances, and their onboard Breaker Panels split service to 120v to TWO sides of sets of breakers for most things, AND provide double-pole breakers for the 240v appliances.

It's not a far-fetched conversation to have about why rv parks and campgrounds can't just simply provide a 50amp breaker for electrical service in place of the current 30amp breaker(heck, why not just change it out to a 100amp breaker?), but the consequences and other requirements are more than just the size of the wiring to handle the additional amps.



Fun, though! : ) Keep the ideas coming...

[katkt]

Originally Posted by SailorSam20500

I have no real knowledge, but....

I'll bet that when campgrounds started supplying power, it was 15 or 20 amp. Then A/Cs came along. Campgrounds responded by providing 30 amp. I figure not many folks had rigs that really needed more power. That became something of a standard. 50 amp is probably a more "recent" upgrade as people got into bigger rigs and started glamping instead of camping...

I agree that single leg 50 amp would be nice, but manufacturers would just add more "stuff" and we would soon be back to worrying about total load popping breakers!

We need someone who has been at this for a long time to chime in.

This. ^^^^^^^

Somewhere along the way between tent camping and Coleman white gas stoves and lanterns, the big shift to “full time” RVing, glamping in coaches that cost a half a mil(and have everything including a fireplace), and the desire to light up your campsite to look like an airport, 50amp service became a necessity....for some.

There are still many places that don’t even have 30amp, and I’m not talking about boondocking. Simple campsites with no power, or only 15 or 20 amp service. Some still don’t have water, and limit the size of your camper to 25 feet or less. On purpose. They are trying to keep the simple life as the goal.
My neighbor in the 60’s, had an Airstream trailer that was fabulous. It didn’t have a Microwave, TV, or air conditioning. Don’t even ask if it had a generator. Lol
50amp service, is a convenience designed purely for those who couldn’t or wouldn’t leave home, without being able to bring home with them.

The reason many people prefer boondocking, is to leave all those people who have to bring home with them, a long ways away. The herd thins considerably.

I chose 30amp over 50amp, on purpose. I’m looking to add a second AC, that pulls half the amps my 15k does, so I can cool just the bedroom at night, and do it with a 2000 genny if needed, and it is allowed. This in itself is a wretched excess, in the world of tent camping I grew up in.

[nomad297]

Originally Posted by cavie

Haven't heard of electric stove yet. RV dryers are 120 volt and don't work very well. VERY small loads.

Would it be possible to wire for a 240 volt appliance if you have a 50 amp service?

Bruce

[formerFR]

your breaker panel would have to be a 240v panel, also not as simple as it seems.