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Old 09-21-2014, 05:25 AM   #21
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Test Data

Studies by major universities were conducted in response to a request from the military, scientific and engineering communities for scientific validation of claims that Pulse Technology actually improves battery efficiency and lengthens battery life. PulseTech contracted with Oakland University in Rochester, Michigan and Ohio State University in Columbus, Ohio to conduct separate evaluations of the technology. These extensive evaluations began in the summer of 1998 and concluded in the fall of 2000.

During these studies, these crystalline buildups (sulfation) were regularly investigated by X-ray diffraction methods. The X-ray diffraction data confirmed the positive effects of the application of this patented Pulse Technology on the battery plate morphology. It shows a more even distribution of lead sulfate crystals over the surface area of the battery plates. It also revealed a significant reduction in the size of the lead-sulfate crystals. These microscopic changes, kind of an electro-mechanical “stirring” or “cleaning” action on the plate surface, greatly improve a battery’s ability to accept and store more energy.

During the Oakland University study, testing was also done on stored batteries to determine how this patented Pulse Technology would affect military vehicles that sit unused for long periods of time. The batteries were stored at a constant temperature of 25C (77F) for 14 weeks.

The final report lists the following results: "There is a distinctive difference in the charge capacity between these two batteries. A battery stored under the influence of pulsation (Pulse Technology) retained its original capacity while the capacity of the battery stored without pulsation lost a considerable amount of charge. The decrease of charge capacity of batteries stored without pulsation decreased linearly with time. After 14 weeks the decrease of charge capacity accounted for about 25% of the battery's original capacity. In this same period of time, the charge of the battery attached to (a product using pulse technology) slightly increased. This is probably due to a reconditioning (reforming) process of the battery plates by continuous pulsation” or the application of Pulse Technology.

This is what the Power Plus Study's found, It also list the people who tested it for the military. I do not know the other gentleman in the artical I did read there findings , but I know of all these Creditable University's that did the testing. Saying just the opp. So who do you believe. Thanks for finding that Cam, interesting. The military are the people who hired these people for there independent study's. Snake oil might be a little strong term.
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Old 09-21-2014, 08:58 AM   #22
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This is what the Power Plus Study's found, It also list the people who tested it for the military. I do not know the other gentleman in the artical I did read there findings , but I know of all these Creditable University's that did the testing. Saying just the opp. So who do you believe. Thanks for finding that Cam, interesting. The military are the people who hired these people for there independent study's. Snake oil might be a little strong term.
I think the answer may be found in this statement: PulseTech contracted with Oakland University in Rochester, Michigan and Ohio State University in Columbus, Ohio to conduct separate evaluations of the technology.
And on the web site...the data the company PAID FOR is NOT shared. All that is shared is their take on the data and a pull quote. Where is the ACTUAL REPORT so that others may try to duplicate the results and see if it is true?

Anyway...I don't think we'll resolve this here and the debate has been going on for years. My friends are HIGHLY competent technically, had nothing to gain or lose and were NOT looking to prove they did not work they were looking to compare results to find the best one!
I note that the sulfation problem is real...but that their testing finds a single NORMAL Eq cycle from a modern charger far more effective than the cumulative result of pulse charging. Something PulseTech doesn't address in their findings.
So I'll stick with my snake oil description. Others are free to spend their money.
Now...to back up the notion that NOTHING is needed over the course of winter storage... here's a series documenting the charge state of an actual 6 year old WalMart battery, in storage over the course of a Maine winter. Draw your own conclusions.


Effect of Winter on Battery Self Discharge Photo Gallery by Compass Marine How To at pbase.com


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Old 09-21-2014, 09:28 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
I think the answer may be found in this statement: PulseTech contracted with Oakland University in Rochester, Michigan and Ohio State University in Columbus, Ohio to conduct separate evaluations of the technology.
And on the web site...the data the company PAID FOR is NOT shared. All that is shared is their take on the data and a pull quote. Where is the ACTUAL REPORT so that others may try to duplicate the results and see if it is true?

Anyway...I don't think we'll resolve this here and the debate has been going on for years. My friends are HIGHLY competent technically, had nothing to gain or lose and were NOT looking to prove they did not work they were looking to compare results to find the best one!
I note that the sulfation problem is real...but that their testing finds a single NORMAL Eq cycle from a modern charger far more effective than the cumulative result of pulse charging. Something PulseTech doesn't address in their findings.
So I'll stick with my snake oil description. Others are free to spend their money.
Now...to back up the notion that NOTHING is needed over the course of winter storage... here's a series documenting the charge state of an actual 6 year old WalMart battery, in storage over the course of a Maine winter. Draw your own conclusions.


Effect of Winter on Battery Self Discharge Photo Gallery by Compass Marine How To at pbase.com


Thanks, you are correct, I'm sure if someone wanted the data, all they would have to file a FOIA to get it, or call the company. The milatary ordered the testing. I have a 4 stage charger so I don't worry about it. Mine go's to 14.6 every 21 hrs. Or so they say we shall see. Thanks for your opinion....
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Old 09-21-2014, 09:45 AM   #24
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I store my batteries in the garage up off the concrete, hooked up to a charger conditioner So that they stay charged and do not overcharge.
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Old 09-21-2014, 10:05 AM   #25
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Since 1975 when we got our first trailer, we have left the batteries in them with a trickle charger on them and plugged into shore power before they had converters. Prior to the trailers, with our El Camino pop up, it was just a trickle charger hooked up all time. Batteries have lasted 4-6 yrs and IMO it is not worth the effort to remove, etc. I also use regular car batteries. We do not boondock so we really don't worry about how long the batteries will last. As for all the talk about converters, in the 5 trailers we've had we've never had a WFCO fail. If the one we have now shoots craps, I will replace it with a duplicate provided the price is right. JMO
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Old 09-21-2014, 05:23 PM   #26
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Keep mine on shore pwr. Checked the battery water level today and it is still full after a year being charged by the converter (except periods of driving). I also added the Power Plus module today. If it works GREAT. If not, no harm and little cost. gljurczyk and Cam. thanks for the info. BTW, gljurczyk was your avatar taken at NAS Jacksonville?
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Old 12-09-2014, 08:26 PM   #27
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This battery debate is a real issue. I have read for hours about how to maintain coach batteries and what type is the best Wet or Gel. I wish someone from Forest River or some other authority would chime in and give us peasants the correct info. I have a 2014 sun seeker 2860 how do I find out what type of charger I have? After 8 months of using this year I noticed a huge depletion the last camping trip in the time the batteries were useful before having to run the generator. Enough that I am going to replace them. With what, I don't know?
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Old 12-09-2014, 08:51 PM   #28
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Paco...try this guy here...he works on the sunseeker line at FR and can probably give you the batteries and charger scoop. Forest River Forums - View Profile: bclemens

What YOU are experiencing I believe will re-occur no matter WHAT batteries and charger you have or purchase in the future: Early battery death due to murder by owner.
Yes...IF YOU BOONDOCK.... you need a TRUE deep cycle battery/batteries and a charger that will take care of them during charging. Yes you need to RELIGIOUSLY check water levels at least once a month and ONLY use distilled water to refill.

BUT if you don't know when they need charging EXACTLY and how much charging they need EXACTLY and when they become fully charged EXACTLY...and how long those charged batteries will last at current use rate before needing to be charged again EXACTLY... then you are going to murder them well before their time.
The ONLY solution to this is to buy a TRUE BATTERY MONITOR like the trimetric or the victron. The pretty lights on the sunseeker panel tell you nothing. The readout on a voltmeter during camping use tells you nothing. You need a TRUE MONITOR or your new battery will suffer the same fate.
This will cost you about $150 and pay for itself in dead batteries and a better boondocking experience.
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Old 12-10-2014, 08:14 PM   #29
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Thanks for the response. I did check levels and they were ok. I agree I am sure I killed them some how just want to learn from my mistake so I don't do it again. The battery monitor you suggested is a great start. Definetly adding one of them. Not worried about the cost of any of it just want the best batteries and the best charger/monitoring system I can buy. I am a true believer in you get what you pay for and I would rather pay and not have to worry about it when I am riding UTV's and want to be able to use the coach when we return.
Thanks again
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Old 12-10-2014, 10:16 PM   #30
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Well...I'd stick with wet cells if you don't mind the occasional watering (see pro-fill solutions if you want to make it easier) since they stand up to some abuse better than AGM's...UNLESS you need the particular attributes of AGM's....like long storage without loss of charge etc.
Get the largest ones you can fit in your space and make sure they are true deep cycle...not dual purpose. If you can fit TWO...get a group 31 or 27 if you can fit them in and stick with 12V. If you can fit four...go with 2 pairs of 6Volt batts.
I think Trojan makes the best performing deep cycle wet cells and I'd pick the Deka marine deep cycles as the best value for the buck in 12V with the Sam's club specials as the best value in 6 volts if you go that route.
I think your charger puts out around 60 amps...so that is a good size for battery banks up to about 300 amp hours. If you go bigger than that...it will still work but charge more slowly.

If you want to charge FASTER...then move to AGM's AND get a charger in the 100amphour range for a 2 battery bank. Suggest Odyssey TPPL AGM's and the Iota DLS-95 IQ charger for a quicker charge system.
Wet cells can ONLY safely be depleted to about 50% before they must be recharged without losing cycle life. They also cannot ACCEPT a charge of more than 20% of their rated amp hours...(i/e 20 amps for a 100amp hour battery.)
Odysseys can be depleted to a 20% charge AND then recharged at a 50% rate (or more) in bulk charging. (i.e. 50 amps on a 100 ah battery). This is a PRICEY solution...but if you boondock a lot and want to spend less time with the genny on...it might be a good solution. Oh... the DLS95 MUST be used with the SmartIQ function if you go with AGMs...and is recommended for wet cells too.
Hope this helps a bit in your decision making.
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Old 12-11-2014, 02:47 AM   #31
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Keep mine on shore pwr. Checked the battery water level today and it is still full after a year being charged by the converter (except periods of driving). I also added the Power Plus module today. If it works GREAT. If not, no harm and little cost. gljurczyk and Cam. thanks for the info. BTW, gljurczyk was your avatar taken at NAS Jacksonville?
No It was taken at Pensacola NAS "Home of the Blue Angles" They have a great Museum there.
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Old 12-11-2014, 11:47 AM   #32
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I have been to that museum and it is great. The reason I asked was that they have one of the planes on display at NAS Jacksonville the birth place of the Blue Angles. BTW my brother in-law was in charge of the CB team that hung the Blue Angle A4 display at the museum.
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