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08-11-2019, 05:25 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 158
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A Weighty Issue with My Roo
I love my little Roo 17 and it has everything my wife and I need but it didn't come with much carrying capacity and with all the modifications that I have made over the last couple of years it was way overweight. I took it to the CAT scales to see how bad the situation was and found out that with water, tools, food, and a little firewood we had nearly 4400 pounds on the 3500 pound axle.
OK so a little overweight I can tolerate but this was too much so with the understanding that things were not likely to change much in the future I elected to change out the axle.
NB - People who do things like this don't do it to save money they just can't help themselves
The following is what I did and the pictures of the progress.
1. Measured the original axle and the height of the frame.
2. Removed the axle and ground off the mounting brackets.
3. Removed the wheel wells and cut out the wall to allow for larger wheel wells.
4. Reinforced the wall at the point of the cutouts to give the new wheel wells something to bond to.
5. Measured and drilled for new axle supports. The old ones were 14 inches long and made out of 1/8 wall thickness 2 x 2 while the new ones were 40 inches long and made out of 1/4 inch wall thickness 2 x 2.
6. Welded on the new axle supports (to the frame not the axle) and then torqued the axle in place.
7. Installed the new wheel wells made out of 3/32" aluminium plate with fiberglass reinforcement.
8. Installed new brakes, tires and rims - Goodyear Endurance 825 75 15 load range E
9. Installed fender flares to cover the wall wheel well interface.
10. Adjusted brakes, wired the brakes, painted and undercoated.
11. Short road trip.
Bottom line the coach sits 1 1/4 inches higher and has a 3 inch wider track so with the stiffer tires it feels at least as stable as before and I have over a thousand pounds of safety margin. Total cost about $1600 and I am happy with the result. I know, I know it's a disease, but it keeps me off the street.
Happy Camping.
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08-12-2019, 05:40 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Frederica DE
Posts: 1,223
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I'm not sure how you weighed your RV, but did you account for the tongue weight? That's probably at least 600 lbs that is not sitting on the axle. Which would be just a little bit overweight.
Nice job swapping out your axle on your own though.
__________________
2016 Ford F250 XLT 4X4 6.2L
2015 Rockwood Signature Ultralite 8329SS
Hensley Arrow
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08-12-2019, 06:20 AM
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#3
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DW's 401(k) Plan
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Western MD
Posts: 2,372
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.... But did you void your warranty? [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]
__________________
"Sunny" the 2017 Sunseeker 3010DS
2006 Jeep Liberty Toad
.... and lovin' life........MOST of the time.
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08-12-2019, 06:46 AM
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#4
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 15,266
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Did you reinforce the frame?
__________________
2015 Freedom Express 248RBS
TV 2015 Silverado HD2500 Duramax
TST Tire Monitors
Honda 2000I + Companion
2 100W solar panels
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08-12-2019, 07:00 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 5,712
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So with the cargo capacity and your mods, you put an additional 1.5 to 2k of extra pounds on that trailer ??? What the heck did you cram in there ?
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08-12-2019, 07:30 AM
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#6
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Canadian Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Eastern GTA, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flybob
Did you reinforce the frame?
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X2
Good job upgrading the axle but you should find out from Lippert what the base frame is rated for and reinforce it as needed to handle the weight you’re putting on it. That’ll give you another project to keep you off the streets!
__________________
2023 Rockwood Signature 8262RBS
2016 Ford F-250 XLT SuperCrew, 6.2L, 4x4, 6'9" bed
2019 Rockwood Signature 8290BS (2019 - 2022)
2011 Rockwood Signature 8293SS (2015 - 2018)
2010 Rockwood Roo 23SS (2012 - 2014)
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08-12-2019, 08:15 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 158
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Weight and Warranty
In reply to the current comments:
I didn't care what the trailer weighed I only cared what the axle was "seeing" so when it was weighed it was connected to the tow vehicle with the WDH on and loaded for dry camping so that a true weight on the axle could be obtained. I know that I could produce a lower number by various means but this wouldn't give me the true weight on the axle that I wanted.
Anyone who thinks that the factory warranty is of any real value likely shouldn't be using an RV. I've come to the conclusion that if I can't fix it myself it won't get fixed. When my trailer was new I left it at the dealer for 3 months in the middle of the winter and they "never got around to it". I have gotten some response from component manufacturers and from FR but the dealer is useless.
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08-12-2019, 08:25 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 158
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Frame changes and mods
The frame is stiffened by the 40 inch axle supports.
The weight of the trailer reflects solar, water, dual batteries, rear storage rack with generator, different sink, pantry addition, dinner ware rack, various shelves, mattress toppers, etc.
I think many of us would be surprised at how much our RV's weigh and how little the factory allows for "things".
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08-12-2019, 11:47 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,839
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You need to read and comply with information in the reference below.
Only a certified vehicle modifier or the vehicle manufacturer have the authorization to do some of the modifications you have performed.
https://ecfr.io/Title-49/pt49.6.567#se49.6.567_16
__________________
A Trailer Tire Poster
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08-12-2019, 12:07 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 1,680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airdale
You need to read and comply with information in the reference below.
Only a certified vehicle modifier or the vehicle manufacturer have the authorization to do some of the modifications you have performed.
https://ecfr.io/Title-49/pt49.6.567#se49.6.567_16
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Personally I take that to apply to people doing the work for hire and/or commercial vehicles and I wouldn't worry about it doing my own work. Could it potentially expose you to more liability in an accident, probably. To me running much overweight is a greater risk as long as you know what you are doing and it sounds like the OP does.
__________________
2024 Artic Fox 3018 5th Wheel
Grand Design 2800BH TT 2021 - for sale
Prior TT 2017 Flagstaff 831CLBSS Classic Ultra lite - SOLD 5/21
TV 2024 F350 DRW - on order
Prior TV 2017 F150 6.5' bed 3.5 Eco-boost Max tow 1800lbs payload
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08-12-2019, 01:13 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 1,014
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Nice work.
Before we traded our Jayco Hummingbird in I was considering upgrading it from a 3,500 lb axle to a 5,000 lb.
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08-12-2019, 01:50 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llr
Personally I take that to apply to people doing the work for hire and/or commercial vehicles and I wouldn't worry about it doing my own work. Could it potentially expose you to more liability in an accident, probably. To me running much overweight is a greater risk as long as you know what you are doing and it sounds like the OP does.
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According to his vehicle certification he is nearly 1500# overweight. Nothing he has done below board justifies that.
Changing the axles load capacity does not constitute a change in the vehicle certified GAWR. It remains the same unless officially recertified by the vehicle manufacturer or a certified modifier.
The following is a quote by NHTSA: " The FMVSS have requirements for the manufacturer to use proper tires and rims for the gross axle weight rating (GAWR) and the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR). The manufacturer may determine the GVWR by adding cargo capacity (if any) to the curb weight of the vehicle as manufactured. The wise consumer, before purchase, will determine if the vehicle has sufficient cargo capacity to carry the weight of water, additional equipment (such as televisions, and microwave ovens), and luggage. The manufacturer’s certification label must show the GVWR. The GVWR must not be exceeded by overloading the vehicle. There is little the government can do to assist a consumer who has purchased a vehicle that has insufficient cargo capacity for its intended use."
__________________
A Trailer Tire Poster
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08-12-2019, 02:31 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 158
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Airdale,
Whats with the red ink and the bad math? I'm not asking anyone to ride in my trailer but I didn't want the axle to fail in the middle of nowhere. The gross weight for my trailer is listed at just over four thousand pounds but when a WDH is used is transfers some of the hitch weight to the trailer axle so if you go to the CAT scales with the WDH engaged more weight on the axle than you expect. The weight at the CAT scales was more or less worst case but it gave me a starting point for calculations.
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08-12-2019, 02:45 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Dunn, NC
Posts: 1,199
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Rules, ruls, rules
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airdale
According to his vehicle certification he is nearly 1500# overweight. Nothing he has done below board justifies that.
Changing the axles load capacity does not constitute a change in the vehicle certified GAWR. It remains the same unless officially recertified by the vehicle manufacturer or a certified modifier.
The following is a quote by NHTSA: "The FMVSS have requirements for the manufacturer to use proper tires and rims for the gross axle weight rating (GAWR) and the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR). The manufacturer may determine the GVWR by adding cargo capacity (if any) to the curb weight of the vehicle as manufactured. The wise consumer, before purchase, will determine if the vehicle has sufficient cargo capacity to carry the weight of water, additional equipment (such as televisions, and microwave ovens), and luggage. The manufacturer’s certification label must show the GVWR. The GVWR must not be exceeded by overloading the vehicle. There is little the government can do to assist a consumer who has purchased a vehicle that has insufficient cargo capacity for its intended use."
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He is only interested in making sure his axle is not over loaded. There are many rules out there that are in place to protect the stupid among us and he is clearly NOT stupid. Well thought out repair. Refer to the 80/20 rule 80% of the rules are for 20% of the people, the rest of us get along fine without them. Remember, don't iron your shirt with it on your body.
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08-12-2019, 03:52 PM
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#15
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 54
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Wow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airdale
You need to read and comply with information in the reference below.
Only a certified vehicle modifier or the vehicle manufacturer have the authorization to do some of the modifications you have performed.
https://ecfr.io/Title-49/pt49.6.567#se49.6.567_16
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A camper/ trailer is not a motor vehicle.
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08-12-2019, 03:55 PM
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#16
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 54
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For real
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocRob
Airdale,
Whats with the red ink and the bad math? I'm not asking anyone to ride in my trailer but I didn't want the axle to fail in the middle of nowhere. The gross weight for my trailer is listed at just over four thousand pounds but when a WDH is used is transfers some of the hitch weight to the trailer axle so if you go to the CAT scales with the WDH engaged more weight on the axle than you expect. The weight at the CAT scales was more or less worst case but it gave me a starting point for calculations.
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For real, calm down already Docrob.
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08-12-2019, 04:22 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 158
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Yes, I agree just curious about the reason for the red ink. Wasn't trying to stir things up just thought others might find my work interesting.
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08-12-2019, 06:22 PM
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#18
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 54
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Agreed
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocRob
Yes, I agree just curious about the reason for the red ink. Wasn't trying to stir things up just thought others might find my work interesting.
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I thought it was awesome. Who would have thought it would have turned into all this drama. Great job on the upgrade.
I need you to do something similar to my pop up, so I can put better tires on it.
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08-12-2019, 07:01 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 158
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Spare parts
Just a side note since I put this new axle in I have the old one for sale cheap. 3500 pound tor flex with timken brand bearings. Sort of heavy to ship but if you live anywhere near Baltimore have I got a deal for you.
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08-12-2019, 09:29 PM
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#20
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Canadian Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Eastern GTA, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,233
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DocRob, what Airdale was getting at (I think) is that your mod doesn’t change the trailer’s GVWR. I know you’re not interested in having it certified at a higher GVWR but rather just eliminating what you think is the weakest part in determining the GVWR in order to avoid having to buy another trailer with a higher certified GVWR. What Flybob and I suggested is that the frame is also a weak link in an ultralite. Although we have no idea what your frame is rated for, the frame of an ultralite is usually 3 pieces of plate welded together rather than a rolled I beam. Having the 40” axle supports really does little to improve the frame’s strength. Reinforcing the welded beams with stiffener plates will be more effective. Hopefully your significant overloading won’t compromise the frame’s integrity if you don’t add stiffeners.
I say this just as food for thought. It’s your trailer to do with as you please.
BTW, you’re more talented than me to actually do the axle replacement yourself.
__________________
2023 Rockwood Signature 8262RBS
2016 Ford F-250 XLT SuperCrew, 6.2L, 4x4, 6'9" bed
2019 Rockwood Signature 8290BS (2019 - 2022)
2011 Rockwood Signature 8293SS (2015 - 2018)
2010 Rockwood Roo 23SS (2012 - 2014)
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