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Old 01-06-2023, 10:22 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by wheelin14 View Post
Tire picture looks like a possible axle camber problem, but I'd get good tires first, and see how they wear. While ST tires are built for scrubbing, LT tires also have strong sidewalls, but have lower lb. ratings for the same size. LT versus ST is a popcorn and beer thread.
Nah, before my new Salins where mounted I can stand on my side walls and it barely moves try that with a Lt tire and it will crush to the floor. A significant difference and that would translate into strength. Not sure why people use vehicle tires, other than their trying to prove they can get away with it. But then they're the same ones that want to pull 16,000 lbs with a 250 and brag about it. Best to play with what`s proven not what Joe macho says on a forum board.
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Old 01-06-2023, 10:30 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by wheelin14 View Post
Tire picture looks like a possible axle camber problem, but I'd get good tires first, and see how they wear. While ST tires are built for scrubbing, LT tires also have strong sidewalls, but have lower lb. ratings for the same size. LT versus ST is a popcorn and beer thread.
I agree. That looks to be a camber and/or toe-in problem.
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Old 01-06-2023, 12:13 PM   #43
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Please report me then, while your at it. I occasionally speed, I have removed the tag that says don’t remove.

I did put tires on that equaled the weight capacity of the trl
You have no excuse; you are admittedly 300# per tire under the minimum standard set for your trailer via federal certification regulations.

REF: 49 CFR part 567

FMVSS: 571-120 paragraph 5.1.2
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Old 01-06-2023, 01:23 PM   #44
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You have no excuse; you are admittedly 300# per tire under the minimum standard set for your trailer via federal certification regulations.

REF: 49 CFR part 567

FMVSS: 571-120 paragraph 5.1.2
Unless, of course, the manufacturer put tires on it that exceeded their own requirements, which is ok for them to do. I think we need a new group called the "tire police" to go with the "towing police" . It's all good, though, rules generally exist for a reason.
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Old 01-06-2023, 01:27 PM   #45
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You have no excuse; you are admittedly 300# per tire under the minimum standard set for your trailer via federal certification regulations.

REF: 49 CFR part 567

FMVSS: 571-120 paragraph 5.1.2
You are knowledgeable here, so I will ask. Do the tires set the certification or does a placard on the trailer set certification? And is there a law that applies to individuals replacing their own tires versus requirements set by the manufacturers? Often these laws only apply to manufacturers and not to owners. These are genuine questions, not trying to be snarky.
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Old 01-06-2023, 03:56 PM   #46
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You are knowledgeable here, so I will ask. Do the tires set the certification or does a placard on the trailer set certification? And is there a law that applies to individuals replacing their own tires versus requirements set by the manufacturers? Often these laws only apply to manufacturers and not to owners. These are genuine questions, not trying to be snarky.

Vehicle certification is necessary to "protect the field". The vehicle manufacturer establishes and sets the GVWR. The vehicle manufacturer has the responsibility to set the vehicle certified GAWRs. It gets "slippery" when tires are chosen for the established GAWR. For tire fitments to RV trailer axles there is no established "load capacity reserve needed because the FMVSS standards allows/requires the vehicle manufacturer to use tires that can carry the load on the vehicle certified axles. Then the final certification action to make sure the weights all add-up, the vehicle manufacturer must publish a tongue weight. That tongue weight, when added to the total GAWR weights, MUST not be less than GVWR. As long as the tires provide the minimum load capacity needed to support the GAWRs they are acceptable and become the minimum standard for that vehicle. Because vehicle certification is governed by the CFR, tires used with more than the minimum requirement are providing load capacity reserves. However, they are still the minimum requirement, because the vehicle manufacturers said so, and they rule.

The general rule for replacement tires is to use the same designated size used by the vehicle manufacturer. Many consumers will add a higher load range for load capacity reserves. Changing a load range for a designated size does not change the designated size and load inflation charts are valid for the load range increase.

When a consumer decides to change the designated size, they open a "can of worms"(plus sizing) they probably don't know exists. Here are questions that must be asked. Will the vehicle manufacturer approve the designates size change? Because the load inflation chart for the OE tires is no longer valid, how is the new recommended cold inflation pressures set? Can the vehicle certification label be changed? Where can the procedures for "plus sizing" be found?

Underinflation happens when the inflation pressures fall below recommended cold levels.

Overinflation happens when inflation pressures provide more than needed for the maximum load capacity of the tire.

Inflation pressures between low and high may be acceptable recommendations.
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Old 01-06-2023, 04:29 PM   #47
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So, if the manufacturer provides all of the specifics on teh placard as they are supposed to, a tire shop can look at those ratings and put the appropriate, even if different than what it had, tires on based on the ratings, right?


Scenario - trailer is a pull behind, weight ratings etc. indicate a load range D ST tire is appropriate for the trailer. However, they got a smoking deal on load range E ST tires and put those on the trailer instead. (I acknowledge that I don't know if this is legal or not, but I would think so) Then when it is time to replace the tires, the consumer has load range D ST tires put on. Is that a problem?


Similar to the towing capacity discussions, what is that problem? Is it a legal issue, meaning you can be ticketed for it? Is it a liability issue, maybe insurance refuses to pay? Obviously, like towing over limits it could present a safety issue if you are over the tire limits.


We can take this to another thread if needed, sorry for the threadjack folks.
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Old 01-06-2023, 09:49 PM   #48
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Can you give GAWR'S of your TT, and GVWR.
Also if old tires where ST, I supose they where.

If now new are LT, they are given about 6 LI steps lower maxload, but because at higher pressure, to laws of nature, they could be saver then the old.

So give me also exact specifications of tires, old and new, as given upto now its a bit confusing to me.
You already gave most info un different posts, but it would be nice, if you give it all on a row in one post.

Then I will do some calculation for you.
And mayby that wlll explain why old failed.

Many tirebrands have gotten a bad name, because TT makers used them with to poor reserves.


I appreciate the offer but as mentioned when I went in to complain about warranty work that wasn’t done properly. They offered to get us into a new trl. I knew the wife would never trust or like the trl we had so I put up little resistance.

2021 ElkRidge 33BHS Click image for larger version

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Old tires Trailer king 235 80 16 F 42 week 2020 less than 5000 miles. Click image for larger version

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New rear tires only 235 80 16
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Old 01-06-2023, 10:03 PM   #49
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Ignoring the standards posted above, you should be fine at that rating.
GVWR is 15,500#. Pin Weight (unloaded, likely higher going down the road ready to camp) takes 2,019# off that. So that gives you the total axle loading of 13,481. Divide that by 4, you get 3370.25# per tire at the maximum rated GVWR. That is still 50# under the tire rating. If you prefer some margin higher that the tires are designed, you might not be comfortable. I do not personally allow some large margin (20% is what I often see), but ymmv. I wouldn't lose sleep over this myself.

But it is all a moot point since you traded. Good luck with the new one.
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Old 01-06-2023, 10:20 PM   #50
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You have no excuse; you are admittedly 300# per tire under the minimum standard set for your trailer via federal certification regulations.



REF: 49 CFR part 567



FMVSS: 571-120 paragraph 5.1.2


I wasn’t able to find the bottom 571 -120 written by bureaucrats but I did find 49 cfr I don’t get you point changing rim tire is not considered altering Click image for larger version

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Old 01-07-2023, 03:24 PM   #51
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Vehicle certification is necessary to "protect the field". The vehicle manufacturer establishes and sets the GVWR. The vehicle manufacturer has the responsibility to set the vehicle certified GAWRs. It gets "slippery" when tires are chosen for the established GAWR. For tire fitments to RV trailer axles there is no established "load capacity reserve needed because the FMVSS standards allows/requires the vehicle manufacturer to use tires that can carry the load on the vehicle certified axles. Then the final certification action to make sure the weights all add-up, the vehicle manufacturer must publish a tongue weight. That tongue weight, when added to the total GAWR weights, MUST not be less than GVWR. As long as the tires provide the minimum load capacity needed to support the GAWRs they are acceptable and become the minimum standard for that vehicle. Because vehicle certification is governed by the CFR, tires used with more than the minimum requirement are providing load capacity reserves. However, they are still the minimum requirement, because the vehicle manufacturers said so, and they rule.

The general rule for replacement tires is to use the same designated size used by the vehicle manufacturer. Many consumers will add a higher load range for load capacity reserves. Changing a load range for a designated size does not change the designated size and load inflation charts are valid for the load range increase.

When a consumer decides to change the designated size, they open a "can of worms"(plus sizing) they probably don't know exists. Here are questions that must be asked. Will the vehicle manufacturer approve the designates size change? Because the load inflation chart for the OE tires is no longer valid, how is the new recommended cold inflation pressures set? Can the vehicle certification label be changed? Where can the procedures for "plus sizing" be found?

Underinflation happens when the inflation pressures fall below recommended cold levels.

Overinflation happens when inflation pressures provide more than needed for the maximum load capacity of the tire.

Inflation pressures between low and high may be acceptable recommendations.

None of this matters owners can do what they want . smart owners keep load ranges the same are greater . up-sizing doesn't matter one bit . a smart owners will keep load ratings in mind . up sizing wheels and tires doesn't make anything dangerous unless stupid is a persons middle name . No laws against it , no agency coming after people , no regulations being abused . once you own something you can pretty much do what you want. well maybe sawing off a shotgun not a good idea if you take it off property
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Old 01-07-2023, 03:53 PM   #52
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570.62

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None of this matters owners can do what they want . smart owners keep load ranges the same are greater . up-sizing doesn't matter one bit . a smart owners will keep load ratings in mind . up sizing wheels and tires doesn't make anything dangerous unless stupid is a persons middle name . No laws against it , no agency coming after people , no regulations being abused . once you own something you can pretty much do what you want. well maybe sawing off a shotgun not a good idea if you take it off property
You do know you're talking about something rolling down the roads that are governed and maintained by the Department of Transportation?
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Old 01-07-2023, 04:00 PM   #53
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You do know you're talking about something rolling down the roads that are governed and maintained by the Department of Transportation?
You'll probably take this one down a different road from where it was written.

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-4...section-570.62
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Old 01-07-2023, 06:25 PM   #54
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You'll probably take this one down a different road from where it was written.



https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-4...section-570.62


The link takes you to a sight telling me how to inspect tire tread depth
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Old 01-08-2023, 06:47 AM   #55
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So I just finished a 2k + mile trip only 1800 towing. I most likely double the amount of miles on the tires from new last year. I went through 3 tires in the last 250 miles of the trip. I had one replaced in Amarillo and the tire tech mentioned how it looked like it had been bouncing. The second was replaced in Lubbock this tire was still intact as the tech was pulling the old tire off he asked if they told me the tire needed replaced because it was bouncing. Both those tires were rear axle tires. I arrived home Thursday went to get ready to put trl in storage and third tire driver side front axle was flat.
Tire info 235 80 R 16 F Trailer King
That’s 100psi per tire from side of tire vs the 80 psi 235 80 16 E rating I replaced the two tires with.
The listed dry weight of trl is basically 11k cargo of basically 4k so up to 15k but with 2500 to 3k pin weight carried by the truck. I travel light so other than cheap tires could the extra capacity of the tires be hurting me.

I am curious because I just yesterday I went to dealership to have work redone walked away with new trl 12k dry 15k capacity but it has 17.5 H rated tires and I don’t want to go thru the episode again. Tire brand I believe is westlake
I quoted your opening post.
When I understand right is that you think the old ST maxload 3860lbs AT 95 psi ( not 100psi) where overrated for the weights expected.

To my opinion they are even underrated to laws of nature.

They where doing a bit better then a Goodyear of same sise and AT 95 psi would do if it existed in that liadrange F, 1 loadindex step higher.

But that Goodyear then would be calculated in maxload for 65mph,so a bit more speed and/or load on one tire, and tire overheats.
Then little cracks are made, wich tear further in time by the mechanical forces by driving, whatever you do afterward.
Then at a sudden moment the tire blows or treath seperates, wich happened to you.

One mentioned already high on the nose so more weight on rear axle then front.

The new E-load tires are even worse AT 80 psi, and you could wait for failure on them too.

But you swiched to another TT or 5thwh whatever, with 17,5 inch tires, when I read it right

So then give specifications of that new one, and I wiill calculate for that, what reserves and pressure to use.

You thought to travel light, but estimated that, wich is dangerous.
Practice teaches that the weights are always higher then you think.

About that bouncing, I dont understand, how can they see it on the tire.
My idea of bouncing is that screws tremble loose by to high pressure, but mayby I understand it wrong.
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Old 01-08-2023, 08:10 AM   #56
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Again thank you, my trailer placard said 100 psi Click image for larger version

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I did and do feel like the lower rated GoodYears were better suited for my trl partially because I know I load light and I know my pin weight is over 2k easy. I can’t say why both techs from two different stores thought my wheels were bouncing. I envision the bouncing to be much like landing wheels on an airplane but on a much much smaller scale.

As for the new trailer tires they are supposed to be G rated
I can find the Westlake tires and I verified the brand yesterday and the model the picture is not from my trailer but is same brand and tire name. The tires are supposed to be G rated. The new trl is 1k heavier dry but basically same gross weight of basically 15K

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Old 01-08-2023, 08:45 AM   #57
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Cant read it on the picture, so googled 215/75R17.5 and most likely its 126/124M.
But if you want to read it all from sidewall for me?

Then I can make a pressure/ axleload - list for it
With my extra tight formula and 90% used of that for 99mph. I know younever make that speed, but I determined this to give a deflection of tire, with maximum reserve, but still no screws popping.

My idea is that the bouncing more must be searched in the suspension and shockbreakers, not courced by the tires.

Need from tire next.
1 loadindex or maximum load.
2 loadrange ( check on tire if F is right)
3. Speedcode to see what I have to lowerloadindex for max reserve with still acceptable " comfort" and gripp.

Then when you know the weights exactly ( by weighing fully loaded) youcan search the axleloads back in my made list to find the savest pressure.

Best would even be to weigh per axle-end, but then I have to make another list per axle-end and 95 % used. Then search the heaviëst side back in that list.
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Old 01-08-2023, 09:06 AM   #58
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Again thank you for your offer. I can say with a 100% certainty that the build sheet says G rated tires. I am 99% sure the tires say Westlake as a brand I’m as close to 100% as I can be without looking directly at them. When I was at the lot yesterday I was going to take pictures of the tires, but slides were out and with fence on west side and another trailer on east side lighting was poor. I didn’t get pictures but I was able to see what I thought were the numbers 960A. Which matched what I saw online of a difference trl same model at a lot in Houston but same company.

Picture reads CR960 A 215 75 17.5 tire is a Westlake
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Old 01-09-2023, 04:45 AM   #59
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Then I will wait for the info, when you get the opertunity to look.

Found J Speedrated with much higher maxload
And the 126/124 in F- and G-load, one of them must be wrong.

And the 100psi for F-load must be an exeption to the rule of 95 psi for F. In European system you see that more often.

Try to find also something like AT 95psi or AT 110 psi.
And LRF or LRG.
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Old 01-09-2023, 09:51 AM   #60
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Again thank you for your offer. I can say with a 100% certainty that the build sheet says G rated tires. I am 99% sure the tires say Westlake as a brand I’m as close to 100% as I can be without looking directly at them. When I was at the lot yesterday I was going to take pictures of the tires, but slides were out and with fence on west side and another trailer on east side lighting was poor. I didn’t get pictures but I was able to see what I thought were the numbers 960A. Which matched what I saw online of a difference trl same model at a lot in Houston but same company.

Picture reads CR960 A 215 75 17.5 tire is a Westlake
Maybe you should take a picture of the trailer's federal certification label

This is a FACT: Tires fitted to the trailer at the time of first sale, MUST be the same designated size as the designated size depicted on the vehicle certification label.

A dealer cannot change that fact prior to first sale for anything but tire brand name. After the first sale they risk the wrath of the trailer manufacturer.

There is one chance to change tires/wheels before first sale. An optional size, approved by the vehicle manufacturer will allow the dealer to install the option. But, a new vehicle certification label must be provided by the manufacturer and affixed to the trailer for the time of first sale.
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