Bearing Seized, Lost a Wheel, and Caused a Fire!

[bigmurph]

I had almost the exact same thing happen to me years ago (minus the fire). My spindle looked like yours but my wheels was still there. Smoking and grease fireballs dropping out. I didn't feel a thing. Car pulled up beside me and warned me. I pulled over to see it smoking and melting grease dripping out. Jacked it up and the wheel fell off. If I would have turned into a parking lot I would have lost it. No brake overheat. Just a failed bearing. I repaired with a file and spindle rethreader. Got me home but I replaced the axle because I was worried me about the amount I had to file off the spindle.

[HONDAMAN174]

That’s unfortunate that it happened to you but am happy that the only tire on that side didn’t get overloaded and blow. I have the “same” unit you do as a ‘14 and I am due to repack the bearings (every 2 years) whenever I get back to work. My dealer only charges $200 and they have all the parts there for bearings and brakes so...

I am running the tst507 as someone mentioned and I monitor the wheel temps as I drive- maybe it would have helped.

Side note- check your brake wires where they go into the axles to the other side as I recently had brake failure from a wire short. The hole the wires run thru slowly took off the insulation in two different places and caused brake failure right as I pulled off a highway to a traffic light. Lucky I brake early and had time for emergency avoidance and downshifting.

[DouglasReid]

Originally Posted by Herk7769

I think your break away cable snagged on something in your trucks bed and put on the trailers brakes.

The only way your driver information center knows there is a brake problem is if the break away cable was installed when you started the engine and then it disconnects or loses connection with the umbilical while it is still running.

Driving down the road with the trailer brakes on will overheat and destroy your bearings in a very few minutes at low speed and seconds at highway speeds.

Just a possible scenario of course

It is more likely his outer race spun in the hub. This problem occurs because of the high side loads placed on the outer wheel bearings when turning campers or any trailer for that matter tight to get into and out of p parking spot.

When it heats up the entire wheel and brake drum leave the axle.

Only way to find it is to inspect it when you do a hand pack grease job each year.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by onecrazyfoo4u

Yeah from my previous thread a year ago, I had changed out bearings because they were bad. That same spindle was beat up a bit from a previous owner bearing failure apparently. However, where the inner and outer bearings road it was nice and smooth so I went for it. I never should have...should have just ponied up for the new axle at the time.

Every wheel/tire does have a very slight side-to-side rock when jacked off the ground. Otherwise, if you tighten the castle nut to the next opening, it's way too tight, couldn't even spin the wheels manually hardly. After watching all the how-to videos and researching, this seemed to be the proper method for new bearing installs. You torque them down tight first, then loosen enough to just where you can spin the tire freely. It'll be left with a tiny bit of wiggle. How else would you propose? Cause the only other option was too tight and would have definitely had an overheat failure.

This part of your statement concerns me. (emboldened above)

You should NOT be relying on the effort of spinning the wheel to determine correct bearing preload.

Here is what Dexter recommends. From their manual... note the part about do not rotate hub and the part about tightening the nut finger tight (after the initial torque)...
Hubs/Drums/Bearings (see page 4)

[onecrazyfoo4u]

Originally Posted by HONDAMAN174

That’s unfortunate that it happened to you but am happy that the only tire on that side didn’t get overloaded and blow. I have the “same” unit you do as a ‘14 and I am due to repack the bearings (every 2 years) whenever I get back to work. My dealer only charges $200 and they have all the parts there for bearings and brakes so...

I am running the tst507 as someone mentioned and I monitor the wheel temps as I drive- maybe it would have helped.

Side note- check your brake wires where they go into the axles to the other side as I recently had brake failure from a wire short. The hole the wires run thru slowly took off the insulation in two different places and caused brake failure right as I pulled off a highway to a traffic light. Lucky I brake early and had time for emergency avoidance and downshifting.

Hey it's pretty rare to see other EVO campers out there! They must not have made that many. I will definitely be investing in a TPMS system now. Seems like it may have helped out in this case.

[onecrazyfoo4u]

Originally Posted by 5picker

This part of your statement concerns me. (emboldened above)

You should NOT be relying on the effort of spinning the wheel to determine correct bearing preload.

Here is what Dexter recommends. From their manual... note the part about do not rotate hub and the part about tightening the nut finger tight (after the initial torque)...
Hubs/Drums/Bearings (see page 4)

Yes, that's the exact procedure I followed when doing the bearings. I was just saying that after you tighten and loosen just enough to get the cotter pin in, that the wheel/tire will not spin freely (instead of hardly spin at all when torqued down). And that there will be a tiny bit of side to side rock movement in the bearings.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by onecrazyfoo4u

Yes, that's the exact procedure I followed when doing the bearings. I was just saying that after you tighten and loosen just enough to get the cotter pin in, that the wheel/tire will not spin freely (instead of hardly spin at all when torqued down). And that there will be a tiny bit of side to side rock movement in the bearings.

You need to re-read #6 in the instructions for axles using a cotter pin to retain the nut.

AFTER the nut is re-tightened to "finger tight" the nut is than backed off so the cotter key can be inserted. The key part is that the nut needs to be free to move with the cotter key being the only restraint. It's not unusual that the cotter key can be inserted while the nut is still tight and people often think that's "perfect" . In reality it's still too tight and needs to be backed off one notch. THE NUT NEEDS TO BE FREE ENOUGH TO BE TURNED BY FINGER TIP PRESSURE.

There can be up to .010" of free-play in an adjustable wheel bearing. Ideal free-play is .001" to .005", again for adjustable tapered roller bearings.

Of course everyone uses a dial indicator to check free-play, right?

On most castellated nuts one "notch" will yield roughly .009" of clearance from zero clearance (no pre-load). Starting from a pre-load (finger tight is 17 inch pounds by standard definition) a full "notch" of backing off will more typically yield about .005" of clearance. (on a typical axle using a thread pitch of 18 tpi) Some axles use just a castellated nut with limited adjustment and some use a retainer with twice the adjustment capability for finer adjustment. Regardless, if the nut can't be moved by light finger pressure with the cotter key inserted, it's too tight.

An observation----- threads about bearing failures usually involve a recent bearing pack either by owner or a local shop. Aside from lack of lubrication and previous damage, bearing failures almost always occur due to improper adjustment. All too often the instructions provided by the manufacturer are not consulted at all or are ignored.


BTW, if one is having bearing problems after PROPERLY servicing them, might be a good idea to check the weight on the wheels. It's very possible that one axle may be carrying more load than it's rated for as well as one wheel carrying a lot more than half of that. Without weighing you are only guessing.

[onecrazyfoo4u]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

You need to re-read #6 in the instructions for axles using a cotter pin to retain the nut.

AFTER the nut is re-tightened to "finger tight" the nut is than backed off so the cotter key can be inserted. The key part is that the nut needs to be free to move with the cotter key being the only restraint. It's not unusual that the cotter key can be inserted while the nut is still tight and people often think that's "perfect" . In reality it's still too tight and needs to be backed off one notch. THE NUT NEEDS TO BE FREE ENOUGH TO BE TURNED BY FINGER TIP PRESSURE.

There can be up to .010" of free-play in an adjustable wheel bearing. Ideal free-play is .001" to .005", again for adjustable tapered roller bearings.

Of course everyone uses a dial indicator to check free-play, right?

On most castellated nuts one "notch" will yield roughly .009" of clearance from zero clearance (no pre-load). Starting from a pre-load (finger tight is 17 inch pounds by standard definition) a full "notch" of backing off will more typically yield about .005" of clearance. (on a typical axle using a thread pitch of 18 tpi) Some axles use just a castellated nut with limited adjustment and some use a retainer with twice the adjustment capability for finer adjustment. Regardless, if the nut can't be moved by light finger pressure with the cotter key inserted, it's too tight.

An observation----- threads about bearing failures usually involve a recent bearing pack either by owner or a local shop. Aside from lack of lubrication and previous damage, bearing failures almost always occur due to improper adjustment. All too often the instructions provided by the manufacturer are not consulted at all or are ignored.


BTW, if one is having bearing problems after PROPERLY servicing them, might be a good idea to check the weight on the wheels. It's very possible that one axle may be carrying more load than it's rated for as well as one wheel carrying a lot more than half of that. Without weighing you are only guessing.

Great information, thank you. I remember when I did my bearings that when the castle nut was torqued down, I couldn't get a cotter pin in, and when I backed it off and did the finger tight, I still couldn't get a cotter pin in, so I did loosen it to the first notch able to get the cotter pin in place. So I'm pretty confident I did the install correctly. I was worried since there was still some side to side wobble (even though I never measured it of course). But I had no other option because even tightened I couldn't get the cotter pin in.

Good info to remember though! I'm going to check it all over when the shop is done repairing cause I just don't trust shops to do it all correctly (hence why I always do my own work). But the good part is insurance will cover the repairs of two new axle setups, brakes, bearings, etc and a set of wheels/tires. So that saves me a couple grand probably with labor (minus the $500 deductible).

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by onecrazyfoo4u

Great information, thank you. I remember when I did my bearings that when the castle nut was torqued down, I couldn't get a cotter pin in, and when I backed it off and did the finger tight, I still couldn't get a cotter pin in, so I did loosen it to the first notch able to get the cotter pin in place. So I'm pretty confident I did the install correctly. I was worried since there was still some side to side wobble (even though I never measured it of course). But I had no other option because even tightened I couldn't get the cotter pin in.

Good info to remember though! I'm going to check it all over when the shop is done repairing cause I just don't trust shops to do it all correctly (hence why I always do my own work). But the good part is insurance will cover the repairs of two new axle setups, brakes, bearings, etc and a set of wheels/tires. So that saves me a couple grand probably with labor (minus the $500 deductible).

Unless the wobble is clearly excessive don't worry. The bearings are tapered and self align under load.
Clearance is necessary to make sure the rollers don't get so tight when heated and expand that they cause the races (cups) to slin on spindle or in hub.

[JimMorrell]

I had a similar experience. A couple hundred miles after bearings were packed by Camping World. Destroyed Tire, Wheel, axle and burned a brake line. Sat in 97 degree heat on side of a fast moving packed freeway for 5 1/2 hours. Had that "great" Good Sam Insurance and was about 10 miles from a Camping World facility. They finally gave me a phone number and said I would have to pay them to get me off the highway. I called AAA and was off the freeway in 30 minutes and taken to a great RV/Truck repair 90 miles from home. After $2,000, I picked up my trailer. Then I cancelled my Good Sam Insurance!

[onecrazyfoo4u]

It's sad to see how often this seems to happen with trailers! I'm just glad it's covered. One thing I am not looking forward to is dumping the tanks...now that will be a putrid mess after sitting for probably 2 weeks at least before it's all fixed and driveable. Just never got to town to dump it before it happened. That will stink, literally!

[A2pfunk]

Glad somebody else on the road didn't die with that wheel flying off.

[onecrazyfoo4u]

Originally Posted by A2pfunk

Glad you didn't kill somebody with that wheel flying off.

Me too...not like it was intentional!

[cl733]

Originally Posted by onecrazyfoo4u

Well, I have returned just under a year later with a catastrophic failure. Last May I had a big post where my bearings/brakes/spindles were bad. https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...le-185141.html. I should have taken the advice of some and just replaced that axle that had the bad spindle. The bad gouged up spindle had a bad failure on our first camping trip this weekend. Probably only 2k miles on my new bearings/brakes/hubs total. I checked before our trip and everything was tight with very little bearing rock, and nicely greased still. However on our way home, we lost an entire brake/drum/wheel/tire assembly. Only reason I noticed was that we got a light saying we lost trailer brakes. We weren’t even using brakes, going up a long uphill stretch.

Pulled over and saw this ugly mess. Somehow it got hot enough that the entire assembly melted/sheared past the castle nut. Once we got the trailer jacked and stabilized from tipping over, we ran back to see if the wheel/tire was salvageable. Well, it of course started a small fire because it was so hot. Luckily BLM got it put out at a couple acres. The tow truck was able to jimmy rig it and tow it to town 20 miles away slowly on the single remaining tire. Quite the adventure to say the least!

So now it’s stuck at a shop 2 hours away from me. I’m thinking it’s time for a whole new axle/brake/hub/leaf spring assembly for both front and rear. It’ll run about $900 total for an entire ready to bolt on kit…but gotta wait weeks to get it shipped. That way I know it is all new and not previously molested. Seems really hard to find places to order Lippert axles though. Dexter ones are readily available, but the dimensions are wrong (would stick out a couple inches), and would have to custom weld the leaf spring mounts. Anybody got any tricks/sources to get Lippert axle assemblies quickly? I looked into going the next size up to 5200lb axles, but it’s going to be 3x the cost since I would need all new 6-lug wheels/tires, and custom welding and fab to get them to fit my frame, and the 5,200lb are twice the price. Seems like the 3,500lb should be fine since I have a dry weight of 6,300lb and gross of 7,800lb with a 900lb hitch weight.

I will also order a new pair of wheels/tires and save the one that was towed to town on as a secondary spare tire. The other two wheels/tires on the drivers side should be just fine, but will swap them to be on the same axle. Thoughts on my plans?

You shouldn't need a new axle just because a bearing piled up but not sure how good the threads are in that mess yeah with your 900lbs on the tongue that leaves you with 700lbs before you add propane food water and everything else, which pretty much puts you at or over loaded . My last trailer I bought I noticed that the mfg are not leaving much room left before you hit max capacity of the axles how are the other wheels making out maybe the last bearing was a little tight better grease check for heat more often

[Camp20144]

I use one of those laser aimed handheld thermometers to check tires/wheels/hubs etc at every stop. If I get an unexpected temperature I move the laser point around checking other areas and a hand check. One day I plan on getting smarter and will buy a tpms.

[babock]

This is how I always preload my bearings.
https://www.championtrailers.com/pre...heel-bearings/

[Gmoney67]

Been doing wheel bearings that way for 40 plus years and never had problem.

[cl733]

Another option is to just get that spindle replaced it's most likely a standard 3500lb spindle you cut it off and weld on a new one it's easily done and you are done with it I used to work in a welding shop where this was a common repair

[wmcclay]

You are only a couple of hundred miles from lippert in nampa. Axles stacked everywhere. Its worth a try

[DouglasReid]

Originally Posted by Camp20144

I use one of those laser aimed handheld thermometers to check tires/wheels/hubs etc at every stop. If I get an unexpected temperature I move the laser point around checking other areas and a hand check. One day I plan on getting smarter and will buy a tpms.

The TPMS is good at telling you if you have a sudden loss of tire pressure and a resulting heat buildup in the tire.

It WILL NOT notify you of an overheating hub and the resulting separation of that tire/wheel from the axle. It will notify you the moment the wheel leaves the axle but that is all.

What you are currently doing is perfect! Get the TPMS to monitor tire pressure and keep on doing what you are doing now.