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Old 05-23-2020, 05:06 PM   #81
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I can’t really say there is a pressure required. Just turn the adjuster a bit, spin the wheel. When the brake shoes start to contact the drums you will hear them rubbing and that should be good.

Self adjusting brakes is a misnomer because the will maintain proper adjustment but they will not correct improper adjustment when they are new.
If they are close enough that little movement of the shoes allows them to start contacting the drum, they are close enough to self adjust.
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Old 05-23-2020, 06:11 PM   #82
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No way in hell I would’ve accepted that mess.
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Old 05-23-2020, 07:20 PM   #83
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No way in hell I would’ve accepted that mess.
What mess? The axles are secure, the brakes will work just fine even though the backing plates aren't perfectly "clocked".

On electric brakes it doesn't matter where the actuator cam is located.
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Old 05-23-2020, 07:44 PM   #84
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If they are close enough that little movement of the shoes allows them to start contacting the drum, they are close enough to self adjust.
They won’t self adjust until the tops of the shoes have worn enough to allow sufficient movement at the tops of the shoes for the cable to pull the pawl far enough for the pawl to jump to the next tooth on the adjuster wheel. The position of the bottom of the shoes has extremely little affect on this movement. If the adjusters are too loose (which seems to be very common on new axels) only the tops of the shoes will contact the drums which gives poor brake performance. The tops of the shoes will be close enough to the drum that they will not move enough to activate the adjusters until the top few inches of the shoes have worn down some. Being sure brakes are adjusted properly when new is critical to proper operations for stopping, and proper operation of the adjusters.
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Old 05-24-2020, 10:02 AM   #85
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They won’t self adjust until the tops of the shoes have worn enough to allow sufficient movement at the tops of the shoes for the cable to pull the pawl far enough for the pawl to jump to the next tooth on the adjuster wheel. The position of the bottom of the shoes has extremely little affect on this movement. If the adjusters are too loose (which seems to be very common on new axels) only the tops of the shoes will contact the drums which gives poor brake performance. The tops of the shoes will be close enough to the drum that they will not move enough to activate the adjusters until the top few inches of the shoes have worn down some. Being sure brakes are adjusted properly when new is critical to proper operations for stopping, and proper operation of the adjusters.
I agree that shoes have to move in order to operate the adjustment mechanism but if the tops of the shoes are too close to the drum surface they are incorrectly "ground" from the factory.

Drum brake shoes, properly prepared, have what's called "heel and toe clearance". A few thousandths clearance at the top and bottom of the shoe when pressed against the drum at the center.

Here's a pic of an improper shoe fit:








When brakes are applied either by hydraulic cylinder or rotating cam as in electric brakes, the leading shoe contacts the drum and rotation causes it to activate the rear shoe forcing it into the drum. The fact that shoes do not have exactly the same radius as the drum makes the brakes "progressive" rather than just ON or Off as they would be if matching exactly.

Brake shoes in a drum brake system have two types of shoes/lining. The shoe at the front is the primary shoe which has a softer, higher coefficient of friction, lining than the rear or secondary (in old days referred to as the Power Shoe). which is the one that does most of the work. The primary merely provides the activating power and is controlled by the cylinder or cam (on electric brakes).

Also note that in the picture, the primary shoe is almost always the one with the shorter amount of lining on it. If you have brakes that are not performing properly it might be a good idea to make sure that the linings are installed in the proper position and that the right side assemblies weren't installed on the left side. This picture is for a Right Side:




For years brake shops actually ground the shoe's arc so it had proper heel and toe clearance but asbestos exposure forced a change. Shoes are now arc'd in the factory (or reconditioning facility) and maximum drum diameters were reduced when refinished (turned).

With self adjusting trailer brakes the usual instruction is to pull trailer at a slow speed and manually apply brakes fully. This causes the shoes to take the shape of the drum and if travel is excessive, the adjuster is turned until brake application doesn't cause ratchet pawl to move enough.
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:01 PM   #86
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I also, lost a back axle tire/bearing and burred up the axle on my unit a few years back. My unit has the 4400 pound axle beam..... But... the spindle is the same size spindle that is used on the 3500 pound axle beam. The axle Beam will be larger but the spindle the same size. Something to look into. Brakes, wheels, tires, should match up fine.

AHHA! This is relevant info for me! I'm looking into upgrading the axle on our TT from a 3500 to a 4400, and if I can keep the same wheels/brakes/hubs it would save me a whole bunch!
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:22 PM   #87
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Pretty sure the 4400 is six lug vs 5. Brakes and drums most likely different.
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Old 08-05-2020, 09:55 PM   #88
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Yes, but if the spindles and bolt pattern for the backing plate are the same, I can use mine.
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Old 08-05-2020, 09:59 PM   #89
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Yes, but if the spindles and bolt pattern for the backing plate are the same, I can use mine.
You need to know the diameter of the drums and brakes as well.

The backing plate and brakes are not expensive, around $50 per wheel for all new, delivered from ETrailer.com
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Old 08-05-2020, 10:09 PM   #90
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I just had the wheel off of one of my 4400 dexter axles today trying to get the brake to work.... iirc, the max diameter cast into the drum was 10.09 inches...

Hope this helps.

And yes the hubs on the 4400 axles are 6 lug.
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