Bearing Seized, Lost a Wheel, and Caused a Fire!

[onecrazyfoo4u]

Well, I have returned just under a year later with a catastrophic failure. Last May I had a big post where my bearings/brakes/spindles were bad. https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...le-185141.html. I should have taken the advice of some and just replaced that axle that had the bad spindle. The bad gouged up spindle had a bad failure on our first camping trip this weekend. Probably only 2k miles on my new bearings/brakes/hubs total. I checked before our trip and everything was tight with very little bearing rock, and nicely greased still. However on our way home, we lost an entire brake/drum/wheel/tire assembly. Only reason I noticed was that we got a light saying we lost trailer brakes. We weren’t even using brakes, going up a long uphill stretch.

Pulled over and saw this ugly mess. Somehow it got hot enough that the entire assembly melted/sheared past the castle nut. Once we got the trailer jacked and stabilized from tipping over, we ran back to see if the wheel/tire was salvageable. Well, it of course started a small fire because it was so hot. Luckily BLM got it put out at a couple acres. The tow truck was able to jimmy rig it and tow it to town 20 miles away slowly on the single remaining tire. Quite the adventure to say the least!

So now it’s stuck at a shop 2 hours away from me. I’m thinking it’s time for a whole new axle/brake/hub/leaf spring assembly for both front and rear. It’ll run about $900 total for an entire ready to bolt on kit…but gotta wait weeks to get it shipped. That way I know it is all new and not previously molested. Seems really hard to find places to order Lippert axles though. Dexter ones are readily available, but the dimensions are wrong (would stick out a couple inches), and would have to custom weld the leaf spring mounts. Anybody got any tricks/sources to get Lippert axle assemblies quickly? I looked into going the next size up to 5200lb axles, but it’s going to be 3x the cost since I would need all new 6-lug wheels/tires, and custom welding and fab to get them to fit my frame, and the 5,200lb are twice the price. Seems like the 3,500lb should be fine since I have a dry weight of 6,300lb and gross of 7,800lb with a 900lb hitch weight.

I will also order a new pair of wheels/tires and save the one that was towed to town on as a secondary spare tire. The other two wheels/tires on the drivers side should be just fine, but will swap them to be on the same axle. Thoughts on my plans?

[JEG]

You can order them directly from Lippert....

www.lci1.com

Just give them the information on the axle tag that you have pictured. I just ordered replacement leaf springs from them and it only took a few days.

Good luck.....looked like you dodged a bullet!!

[onecrazyfoo4u]

That's just lame you can't order through the website...I tried scouring through the shopping site and couldn't find a place to order whole axle assemblies. I hate to order through the phone and potentially have something lost in translation, but oh well.

So when replacing axles and leaf springs, how hard is it to get them lined up perfectly straight and level? I'll probably replace the leaf connection shackles just so that everything is brand new and I won't need to worry about any of it hopefully. Or are shackles not typically a wear component in need of replacing?

[JEG]

I simply went on their website and chatted with a representative, who was very helpful. I would suggest you try that first, because if you're looking to replace the OEM axles, then they're your best source for them.

[onecrazyfoo4u]

Dang, this forum turned into a ghost town since I've been away a year!

[upflying]

I wonder if the failure could have been detected before the loss of the wheel and hub from the spindle. Smoke, flames, noise, trailer stability, wheel wobble and drag might have been seen and felt in the mirrors of the tow vehicle.
Helpful motorists driving near you should have honked to warn you of the impending failure.
Good reason to always carry a fire extinguisher. Shake the wheels and feel the hub during stops for fuel.

[Herk7769]

I think your break away cable snagged on something in your trucks bed and put on the trailers brakes.

The only way your driver information center knows there is a brake problem is if the break away cable was installed when you started the engine and then it disconnects or loses connection with the umbilical while it is still running.

Driving down the road with the trailer brakes on will overheat and destroy your bearings in a very few minutes at low speed and seconds at highway speeds.

Just a possible scenario of course

[sunnman]

We had a bearing go bad in ours in Alabama, about 1,000 miles from home. Going down the highway and some kid pulled up beside us and told us the wheel was on fire. Replaced the axel, rim and tires. Had just gotten the TT inspected and bearings repacked. Had all the other bearings check and they were good. We spent our vacation sitting at a Camping World south of Birmingham. Unfortunately the only way to get a new ones is to order through FR who orders from Dexter who ships to FR who ships to CW. At least the whole TT didn’t burn.

[onecrazyfoo4u]

Yeah it sure caught me off guard. I'm very anal about constantly checking the mirrors and monitoring gauges. Jacked up each wheel and checked for bearing play and popped the cover to check for grease. All checked out good ~400 miles prior at the beginning of the trip. Guess you can just never check things too many times!

I was very surprised the few cars behind me didn't honk or flash. I noticed that people started to slow down behind me, and then a few seconds later the lost trailer brakes light came on and I pulled over. The tire assembly hit the rear stairs to our bathroom too and shifted it back a few inches. So you would've thought we would feel that. Maybe I just wrote it off as a bump in the road. Craziness.

[Cypressloser]

My 2cts.


2 3,500k axles are just borderline no matter what.
Lippert probably uses the cheapest chinese made bearings they can get their hands on, at the very least replace them with quality american made bearings, make sure they're installed correctly and inspect and repack them regularily.
If it was me and I was planning to keep the trailer for another 2 years or so I'd bite the bullet and upgrade.

[onecrazyfoo4u]

Originally Posted by Herk7769

I think your break away cable snagged on something in your trucks bed and put on the trailers brakes.

The only way your driver information center knows there is a brake problem is if the break away cable was installed when you started the engine and then it disconnects or loses connection with the umbilical while it is still running.

Driving down the road with the trailer brakes on will overheat and destroy your bearings in a very few minutes at low speed and seconds at highway speeds.

Just a possible scenario of course

The breakaway and chains were all still untouched. I checked the other wheels for heat and there was none. We were in a long uphill stretch and hadn't touched the brakes for many miles. It definitely wasn't a brake problem. I don't know how, but my 08 F-250 with the built-in trailer brake controller notified me seconds after I lost it. It said something like "service trailer brakes". Maybe it can detect a loss in electrical signal to the brakes?

[extremebike]

Sorry to hear about your troubles.

I ended up with the same weight rating on my new axles due to the cost of the new wheels and tires. I ended up going with all new running gears as the trailer needed new shackle bushings, brake shoes, drums, shackles and bearings.

The cost of labor made it so close that going new was too appealing. Make sure they grease up everything. I don't trust the factory. I also went with wet bolts on the shackles.

Not subscribed.

[MtBiker]

A good tpms system such as the TST 507 would have likely alerted you to the rise in temperature.

[Scrapper]

Originally Posted by onecrazyfoo4u

Well, I have returned just under a year later with a catastrophic failure. Last May I had a big post where my bearings/brakes/spindles were bad. https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...le-185141.html. I should have taken the advice of some and just replaced that axle that had the bad spindle. The bad gouged up spindle had a bad failure on our first camping trip this weekend. Probably only 2k miles on my new bearings/brakes/hubs total. I checked before our trip and everything was tight with very little bearing rock, and nicely greased still. However on our way home, we lost an entire brake/drum/wheel/tire assembly. Only reason I noticed was that we got a light saying we lost trailer brakes. We weren’t even using brakes, going up a long uphill stretch.


<snip>

Highlighted in bold red is what bothers me.


1) Anytime a spindle is gouged it should be changed.


2) There should not be any discernible wobble or rock in the wheel bearing. If there is then you already have a problem. Either the castle nut is too loose or the bearing is not fitting on the spindle properly.

[onecrazyfoo4u]

Originally Posted by Scrapper

Highlighted in bold red is what bothers me.


1) Anytime a spindle is gouged it should be changed.


2) There should not be any discernible wobble or rock in the wheel bearing. If there is then you already have a problem. Either the castle nut is too loose or the bearing is not fitting on the spindle properly.

Yeah from my previous thread a year ago, I had changed out bearings because they were bad. That same spindle was beat up a bit from a previous owner bearing failure apparently. However, where the inner and outer bearings road it was nice and smooth so I went for it. I never should have...should have just ponied up for the new axle at the time.

Every wheel/tire does have a very slight side-to-side rock when jacked off the ground. Otherwise, if you tighten the castle nut to the next opening, it's way too tight, couldn't even spin the wheels manually hardly. After watching all the how-to videos and researching, this seemed to be the proper method for new bearing installs. You torque them down tight first, then loosen enough to just where you can spin the tire freely. It'll be left with a tiny bit of wiggle. How else would you propose? Cause the only other option was too tight and would have definitely had an overheat failure.

[Brother Les]

Originally Posted by onecrazyfoo4u

Yeah from my previous thread a year ago, I had changed out bearings because they were bad. That same spindle was beat up a bit from a previous owner bearing failure apparently. However, where the inner and outer bearings road it was nice and smooth so I went for it. I never should have...should have just ponied up for the new axle at the time.

Every wheel/tire does have a very slight side-to-side rock when jacked off the ground. Otherwise, if you tighten the castle nut to the next opening, it's way too tight, couldn't even spin the wheels manually hardly. After watching all the how-to videos and researching, this seemed to be the proper method for new bearing installs. You torque them down tight first, then loosen enough to just where you can spin the tire freely. It'll be left with a tiny bit of wiggle. How else would you propose? Cause the only other option was too tight and would have definitely had an overheat failure.

You 'set' the castle nut correctly. It has been suggested that after driving a ways (25-100 miles) to jack up the tire and check for more side to side wiggle.


How is your tow package set up. As this is the rear axle, is the front to high and more pressure being put on the back axle?


I also, lost a back axle tire/bearing and burred up the axle on my unit a few years back. My unit has the 4400 pound axle beam..... But... the spindle is the same size spindle that is used on the 3500 pound axle beam. The axle Beam will be larger but the spindle the same size. Something to look into. Brakes, wheels, tires, should match up fine.

[onecrazyfoo4u]

Originally Posted by Brother Les

You 'set' the castle nut correctly. It has been suggested that after driving a ways (25-100 miles) to jack up the tire and check for more side to side wiggle.


How is your tow package set up. As this is the rear axle, is the front to high and more pressure being put on the back axle?


I also, lost a back axle tire/bearing and burred up the axle on my unit a few years back. My unit has the 4400 pound axle beam..... But... the spindle is the same size spindle that is used on the 3500 pound axle beam. The axle Beam will be larger but the spindle the same size. Something to look into. Brakes, wheels, tires, should match up fine.

I run the 10k lb equalizer hitch all setup nice and level with my truck. I really think it was that exact spindle that failed because it was slightly chewed up from a previous bearing failure on that spindle. Never again! Just splurge for new axles if it ever happens again.

That's interesting that you have 4,400lb axles. The only options I saw when searching were Dexter or Lippert either 3,500lb or 5,200lb was the next step up which is way overkill it seems like. I was surprised I couldn't find an in between option. Do you by chance have a link to the type of axle you have? Is it one of the rare square tube axles?

[Brother Les]

Originally Posted by onecrazyfoo4u

That's interesting that you have 4,400lb axles. The only options I saw when searching were Dexter or Lippert either 3,500lb or 5,200lb was the next step up which is way overkill it seems like. I was surprised I couldn't find an in between option. Do you by chance have a link to the type of axle you have? Is it one of the rare square tube axles?

Been a few years, I crawled under my unit to look at the tag on the axle. When the axle went bad years ago, I did not think that the axle beams (4400) were heavy enough for the size of the camper. I called Lippert about it and they made me a replacement axle beam. the spindle(s) is the 3500 beam spindle, to keep the same brakes, tires, wheel, leaf springs...(I also installed wet bolts on shackles) but the beam itself tag says that the axle is (3 inches around) is the 5200 size. So, my front axle beam is the 4400 and the back is a 5200 pound (tag), both axle with the 3500 spindles.

[waybeck2018]

Originally Posted by onecrazyfoo4u

Yeah it sure caught me off guard. I'm very anal about constantly checking the mirrors and monitoring gauges. Jacked up each wheel and checked for bearing play and popped the cover to check for grease. All checked out good ~400 miles prior at the beginning of the trip. Guess you can just never check things too many times!

I was very surprised the few cars behind me didn't honk or flash. I noticed that people started to slow down behind me, and then a few seconds later the lost trailer brakes light came on and I pulled over. The tire assembly hit the rear stairs to our bathroom too and shifted it back a few inches. So you would've thought we would feel that. Maybe I just wrote it off as a bump in the road. Craziness.

Just 1 week prior to our trip out west I had the bearings packed and everything checked by a dealer. Good to go, right? Every stop I did a walk around checking everything. Every morning, checked tire pressures. Fourth day, had just left the Badlands and stopped in Wall, SD for fuel. Next stop Rapid City. Back on I 90 driving at 60 MPH (my normal) cars passing regularly. Then out the mirror I saw heavy black smoke on street side. Pulled off immediately and had the same exact thing as in your picture except mt tire was still hanging on, barely. Had driven about 1500 miles since the repack. Fortunately the tow truck got me jacked up and I drove to a shop he recommended in Rapid City. Fortunately it was a shop that worked on farm and horse trailers daily. He had the parts in stock but had others ahead of me for three days. Fortunately there was a KOA less than 2 miles away. We parked the TT and did sightseeing while we waited. Took it in at appointment time and asked them to fix the bad one, inspect and repack the rest. Three hours later, done and on the road. Moral of the story, we try to do the best thing before traveling but it still is not always enough. We got lucky.

[iconnekt]

Originally Posted by Cypressloser

My 2cts.


2 3,500k axles are just borderline no matter what.
Lippert probably uses the cheapest chinese made bearings they can get their hands on, at the very least replace them with quality american made bearings, make sure they're installed correctly and inspect and repack them regularily.
If it was me and I was planning to keep the trailer for another 2 years or so I'd bite the bullet and upgrade.

I second that. Way, way too borderline for my tastes...