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08-10-2020, 12:16 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,114
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Blown Grease Seals
2-3k on trailer, two years old. Pulled wheels for bearing/brake service and this is what I found on 3 of the 4:
https://www.forestriverforums.com/Ph...php?photo=5251
The Lippert easy grease deal has never been used, wheels have never been off. Bearing lash felt fine, nothing out of the ordinary. Took a can of brake cleaner, brush, rag, etc. to clean them up and I know shoes are contaminated. What could have caused this? Repacked the bearings and replaced the seals.
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08-10-2020, 12:37 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 1,405
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Dealer "prep" gone wrong?
Another reason to stay away from RV dealers
__________________
2019 F150 4X4 7050 GVWR 1903 payload
2018 Avenger 21RBS 7700 GVWR
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08-10-2020, 02:47 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike134
Dealer "prep" gone wrong?
Another reason to stay away from RV dealers
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Possibly but don't know why they would add grease, and only on one side it appears. I do think someone added grease via the zerks as there was evidence of it by different colors and grease on the zerk, but one side. Then why would one on the other side leak too? The only anamoly from past trailers I've owned is the ez lube. I've always serviced my own wheel bearings.
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08-10-2020, 04:42 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike134
Dealer "prep" gone wrong?
Another reason to stay away from RV dealers
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Could also just be a faulty seal. Been known to happen.
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will." (Japanese Proverb)
"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"
2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2023 f-150 SCREW XLT 3.5 Ecoboost (The result of a $68,000 oil change )
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08-10-2020, 06:14 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanMike
Could also just be a faulty seal. Been known to happen.
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I considered that but 3 out of 4? I've doused one set of brakes in the last 3 trailers and that was because I tried to reuse one (foolish economy). and I inspected all of them and the seal lips were sharp, there's no groove in the spindles (you can see where the lips run but you can't feel any groove with your finger nail) and the good one looked the same as the bad ones.
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08-10-2020, 08:31 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,263
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Back to your original post where you said "bearing lash FELT fine".
Did you measure it?
Proper bearing clearance is from .001" to .005"
One reason seals can leak is if the rotating surface moves excessively. This is why we often see leaking seals on rear axles as a precursor to bearing failure.
Doesn't take much for the oil that's a component of grease to leak through a seal in these conditions.
The mess created inside the brake assembly tends to look a lot larger than it actually is as all the dust from the brakes is attracted to the oil and it grows like a fungus.
Properly adjusted one should barely feel any lash. Consider that .003" is in the middle of the acceptable range and by coincidence that's the thickness of the average human hair.
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will." (Japanese Proverb)
"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"
2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2023 f-150 SCREW XLT 3.5 Ecoboost (The result of a $68,000 oil change )
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08-11-2020, 09:02 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,114
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always adjusted by feel. Tighten to "set" the bearings, back off until just a tiny bit of play. Titan Mike, you saying .003" of horizontal run out? Never heard that before but more scientific but hard to measure without dial indicator attached to spindle or hub I guess. Going to see my RV guru later this morning and see what he suggests. I really should replace the shoes now but I'm seeing prices for entire backing plates at less than the shoes!
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08-11-2020, 09:47 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nayther
always adjusted by feel. Tighten to "set" the bearings, back off until just a tiny bit of play. Titan Mike, you saying .003" of horizontal run out? Never heard that before but more scientific but hard to measure without dial indicator attached to spindle or hub I guess. Going to see my RV guru later this morning and see what he suggests. I really should replace the shoes now but I'm seeing prices for entire backing plates at less than the shoes!
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That's why the procedure is spelled out carefully.
Tighten to 20 foot lbs while turning wheel to make sure bearing cup/race is fully seated (also squeezes excess grease out of bearing that can give one a "false feel".
Loosen and re-tighten finger tight which by definition is approximately 2 nm or ~20 inch lbs.
Back off to the FIRST point that the nut retainer can be engaged.
If torque values are used, not guesses, the thread pitch of the spindle will produce the desired end-play without needing a Dial Indicator.
FWIW, Dial Indicators were used for years by professional mechanics until manufacturers came up with the above method.
Before sealed bearing hubs on later model vehicles the manufacturers adopted the above method (with slightly varying torque values) in order to reduce wheel bearing failures.
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will." (Japanese Proverb)
"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"
2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2023 f-150 SCREW XLT 3.5 Ecoboost (The result of a $68,000 oil change )
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08-11-2020, 12:52 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanMike
That's why the procedure is spelled out carefully.
Tighten to 20 foot lbs while turning wheel to make sure bearing cup/race is fully seated (also squeezes excess grease out of bearing that can give one a "false feel".
Loosen and re-tighten finger tight which by definition is approximately 2 nm or ~20 inch lbs.
Back off to the FIRST point that the nut retainer can be engaged.
If torque values are used, not guesses, the thread pitch of the spindle will produce the desired end-play without needing a Dial Indicator.
FWIW, Dial Indicators were used for years by professional mechanics until manufacturers came up with the above method.
Before sealed bearing hubs on later model vehicles the manufacturers adopted the above method (with slightly varying torque values) in order to reduce wheel bearing failures.
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I'd say that's pretty accurate for what I do, don't use a torque wrench to seat but 20ft/lbs is not much and easily done with channel locks. Wonder how the factory does it?
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08-11-2020, 12:55 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Posts: 7,616
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I always use a torque wrench set to 20 ft-lbs to set the bearings.
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08-11-2020, 01:12 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nayther
I'd say that's pretty accurate for what I do, don't use a torque wrench to seat but 20ft/lbs is not much and easily done with channel locks. Wonder how the factory does it?
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Preset torque wrenches.
They often look like this:
The pictured one happens to be preset for 20 in/lbs.
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will." (Japanese Proverb)
"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"
2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2023 f-150 SCREW XLT 3.5 Ecoboost (The result of a $68,000 oil change )
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08-11-2020, 03:09 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,114
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in/lb or ft/lb? I'm sure it's ft/lb.
went by my local friendly RV store/parts/repair independent dealer. He says it's not that uncommon and blamed single lip seals and inept assembly line. He said just do it right and use double lip seals. If not too bad clean brake shoes with brake cleaner and run 'em. So that's what I'm a gonna do!
QC is non existent isn't it?
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08-11-2020, 03:14 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nayther
in/lb or ft/lb? I'm sure it's ft/lb.
went by my local friendly RV store/parts/repair independent dealer. He says it's not that uncommon and blamed single lip seals and inept assembly line. He said just do it right and use double lip seals. If not too bad clean brake shoes with brake cleaner and run 'em. So that's what I'm a gonna do!
QC is non existent isn't it?
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No, INCH POUNDS for the final tightening before backing off and locking nut. That setting is more critical than the initial 20 ft/lbs used to seat everything. They make 20 ft/lb presets too. Preferred to use presets on assembly lines so mistakes are minimized.
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will." (Japanese Proverb)
"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"
2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2023 f-150 SCREW XLT 3.5 Ecoboost (The result of a $68,000 oil change )
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08-11-2020, 03:59 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 1,321
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My tow dolly has ez lube fittings and the manual says to avoid grease getting by the rear seal to rotate the tire while adding grease. I wonder if someone didn't just give it a few shots of grease without rotating the wheel.
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08-11-2020, 04:50 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunseeker16
My tow dolly has ez lube fittings and the manual says to avoid grease getting by the rear seal to rotate the tire while adding grease. I wonder if someone didn't just give it a few shots of grease without rotating the wheel.
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Now if everyone would just read the manual [emoji16][emoji16]
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will." (Japanese Proverb)
"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"
2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2023 f-150 SCREW XLT 3.5 Ecoboost (The result of a $68,000 oil change )
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08-11-2020, 04:59 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 1,321
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Yeah boy. I don't do it often. Probably should though, sometimes there is some good information in them.
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08-11-2020, 05:03 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanMike
That's why the procedure is spelled out carefully.
Tighten to 20 foot lbs while turning wheel to make sure bearing cup/race is fully seated (also squeezes excess grease out of bearing that can give one a "false feel".
Loosen and re-tighten finger tight which by definition is approximately 2 nm or ~20 inch lbs.
Back off to the FIRST point that the nut retainer can be engaged.
If torque values are used, not guesses, the thread pitch of the spindle will produce the desired end-play without needing a Dial Indicator.
FWIW, Dial Indicators were used for years by professional mechanics until manufacturers came up with the above method.
Before sealed bearing hubs on later model vehicles the manufacturers adopted the above method (with slightly varying torque values) in order to reduce wheel bearing failures.
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According to my Dexter manual, you seat the bearings by initially tightening to 50 ft pounds while turning the wheel.
__________________
2019 Coachmen Freedom Express 192RBS
2018 F 150 Supercrew 6.5 bed 3.5 EB Max Tow
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08-11-2020, 05:46 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jfkmk
According to my Dexter manual, you seat the bearings by initially tightening to 50 ft pounds while turning the wheel.
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Then use 50 ft/lbs. The initial torque recommendation varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. That "finger tight" torque is all that matters as it is the one that's going to affect final end play.
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will." (Japanese Proverb)
"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"
2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2023 f-150 SCREW XLT 3.5 Ecoboost (The result of a $68,000 oil change )
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