Brake problems

[apollumi]

Camper: Cherokee 25RR Toy Hauler
Brake controller: Tekonsha P-3

I have had a problem with my brakes ever since I bought the camper. What is happening is that if I use the brakes very much (stopping quite often) they begin locking up. What happens when the locking up starts to occur is that I hit the brakes (this is a "one stop" example) and the braking progressively starts getting harder until the camper is literally pulling on the truck then the brakes lock. Not something I want to experience in heavy traffic.

It has only been on the road three times. Once to haul it home (300 miles). Once to the local dealership (15 miles). Once on vacation (100 miles).

The history (if it applies):

I bought the camper and the dealer installed a brake controller. I'm pretty sure it was of the delayed braking types. The Tekonsha P-3 I have now is a proportional controller. He showed me how it worked and what the lever did. I would hit the brakes and I would feel the camper gently pull on the truck. So I parked for one night near his dealership then headed home.

It worked just great 2/3 or so of the way home then I noticed the brakes seemed like they were grabbing harder. This continued for a short bit and then got noticeably worse. Then, it began to lockup. This happened in just very few stops. I turned the brake controller down to almost nothing and prayed to the camper gods I would make it home alive. It was locking up every time I hit the brakes.

After I got it home (thank god) I immediately ordered the best controller I could find. This is the Tekonsha P-3 I now have. It made it where I can pull the camper without it locking up but if I hit the brakes much that progressive hard pulling starts again.

I'm sure there is an answer here but from reading around on the Internet I haven't found a definitive cause.

Anybody have a clue? I think somebody told me the brakes could have gotten glazed on the way home. Possible I guess because I went through some hilly areas but I sure would like to know so I can fix it.

[TeJay]

I am not familiar with you controller but I am familiar with brakes. One of the worst mistakes that we can make is to ASSUME that just because something is new that everything was installed correctly and should be A- OK. I have read many, many, times on forums that some units brakes from the factory were over lubed with the grease gun method. The grease blows out the rear seal, and covers the linings and hubs with grease. One would think that greased hubs and linings would render the brakes useless, but the opposite is true. The linings will slip, slip, slip then as the heat and pressure increases it will grab. Since you have used two different controllers I don't believe they are the problem. I would pull your wheels and inspect to see what is happening. I think you will find a problem. Maybe you'll find grease or maybe the linings were adjusted to tight to begin with and they were glazed already. Glazed linings require a lot of pressure before they will begin to work if at all. Brake lining do need to be burnished or broken in correctly so that they don't become glazed. There is a procedure and it should be followed. It takes approximately 200 moderate stops from 40-50 MPH to about 20-MPH with a 1-minute cool down between to completely burnish linings. Nobody does that but you get the idea. Never, never, never, (unless you can't help it) perform a panic stop causing the linings to smoke. That will glaze and ruin the linings without a doubt. I talked to a guy who was advised by the dealer to do exactly that. Also don't let the dealer tell you that glazed linings are OK. The lining material has been glazed all the way through. You can't just sand them off and start over. They are ruined and will never work as designed.
You have to start with an inspection. Something is not right and you have to find out what. Do your inspection and let us know what you find.
JMTCW
TeJay

[DAISY BOYKIN]

Let me make a suggestion: Make sure you read the directions that came with the P-3.

Next, If you are mechanical savvy, You can jack up each wheel, adjust the brake shoes for proper adjustment.

Next read your instructions closely for your brake controller. There are four (4) levels of settings for the P-3. Each setting

b. boost off (for lighter trailer weights)
b.1 boost added (slightly more aggressive braking) slightly heaver trailers
b.2 boost added (increases aggressive braking) ,trailer weighs approximately
same as tow vehicle and up to 25% more.
b.3 boost increased much more & trailer weighs up to 40% more than tow
vehicle.

With each boost setting change, you will have to readjust the voltage reading (digital readout) , recheck your brakes a a back street or large parking lot after brakes are warmed up, you may have to readjust the voltage again.

If you are in traffic, slow moving the brakes will have a tendency to grab faster. You have to back off on the voltage adjustment (small thumb wheel on left) slightly.

If all the above fails, return to where you bought the trailer for the brakes to be checked.

I have been towing RV's for approxmately 25 years and I even have to reread my P-3 instructions sometimes.

[TeJay]

I agree with post #3's assessment concerning the brake controller. You do have to know how to set them up. That said, you've already had two controllers and the results have been almost the same and still it's not right. If you or the dealer do not look at the brakes you'll both be chasing your tails. You are trying to control the brakes and nobody has recently looked at how the brakes are mechanically. I'm diagnosing from miles away but common sense says determine if all is OK inside the drums before anything else.

Because what you've told us the brake shoes were most likely overheated and therefore glazed. You can say what you like but I've sen it a 100 times, glazed linings will not stop you very well. Brakes work because they create friction and it can't be done very well with smooth linings. Even if you get the controller working correctly it still will not work well with glazed linings. It will take much more pressure to create the friction and it will be like the snowball rolling down a hill. I would head to the dealer and insist on a complete brake inspection. If they agree to change the linings they should also machine the drums. That opens up another can of worms. Most don't believe you have to machine the drums. Friction is created when the shoes rub against the drums. If the drums are in any way compromised (warped from heat, smooth, grease, hard spots) then so are the brakes.
TeJay

[apollumi]

I read the manual on the Tekonsha P-3 several times. It has been set for the weight of the camper. I do have to adjust the voltage when I'm pulling it because of the problem I mentioned above. If I brake very much I have to drop the voltage quite a bit because the brakes start doing the same thing, pulling hard and acting like it is going to lock up. Not good.

I would like to take it to the dealer but they kept it from just after I went on my one camping trip in the summer until it had gotten cold. Then I had to go raise a stink because the work still wasn't done. But I'll stop there because if I continue on it'll sound like a bad rant. Unless it's something major I'll just do the work myself.

How do I jack up the camper? Does the jack go under the axle or the I-beam?

If the brakes are glazed where do I find out what type of replacement brakes to order?

[Broadway Joe]

Never jack under the axles, always the frame.

[apollumi]

I know I'll regret asking this, and no I haven't done it, but could the stabilization jacks on one side be used? To lift it to inspect the brakes that is. I understand you don't want to do this but I'm curious why not.

[Dave_Monica]

Originally Posted by apollumi

I know I'll regret asking this, and no I haven't done it, but could the stabilization jacks on one side be used? To lift it to inspect the brakes that is. I understand you don't want to do this but I'm curious why not.

The stab jacks aren't designed to lift the camper, only to stabilize. You need a bottle jack on the frame and jack stands for safety. There's threads on here using the search function to manually adjust the brakes.

Dave

Edit: Here's a link to a recent post on brake adjustment... http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ent-34589.html

[apollumi]

Originally Posted by Dave_Monica

The stab jacks aren't designed to lift the camper, only to stabilize. You need a bottle jack on the frame and jack stands for safety. There's threads on here using the search function to manually adjust the brakes.

Dave

Edit: Here's a link to a recent post on brake adjustment... http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ent-34589.html

I searched the Internet for somebody having my same problem as myself but could find no matches for what I described. For adjustments, etc there are plenty of videos on youtube and other sites I came across. Coming from a background of "no" camper experience I mostly hope for input so I can understand the process.

[TeJay]

OK folks lets think about this for a minute. First of all you don't need your brakes adjusted. WHY?????? Give me a good reason why. They do work but just to much pressure and they lock up. That's not brake adjustment. Don't jack up on the axle????? Why???? Did somebody tell us not to do that???? Oh yes, some of the axle tubes are flimsy and somebody is worried that we will crush the tube. Spread the pressure out over a larger area and jack up on the tubes. I've done it for years with no adverse effect. I usually jack up close to the wheel and put a 4"X4" piece of wood across both axles and jack in the middle and raise both wheels at once. If you are afraid of jacking on the axles realize that you have to jack the frame up a lot more to get the wheels off the ground. I don't believe that the frames on these TT's are much stronger than the axles. OK, now you jack the frame up on one point to get one wheel up and place a safety stand under that point. This does twist the frame. Then you go towards the other end and do the same so you can get both wheels off the ground to inspect the brakes. Jack it up in the middle of a 4"X4" spread between both axles close to the wheels and you're done. Place a 2"X4" about 2' along the length of the axle to spread out the pressure and nothing will happen to the axles.
Brake shoes??? Go or call a dealer and ask them for the number and brand of the shoes on your unit. you might be able to call Lippert or Dexter to get the information. Go to a NAPA store with the brand and the numbers. Tell them you want the best quality shoes they can get for you by crossing those numbers with their brands. There are vast differences in qualities of shoes and you don't want to get cheap ones.

JMTCW
TeJay

[jim44646]

once you have wheels off replace the bearing seals and break shoes. The seals could have been blown out by to much grease or a seal could have been nicked when brake drum was origanaly put on. Replace seals with the double lip type.

[Len & Cheri]

I'd be taking it back to the dealer to get warranty work done. No use spending your own money if it's under warranty.