China "Time Bombs" Experience

[NJKris]

I cover mine, and keep inflated to 50 psi recommended for my trailer, no props with flat spots. Should I air them up a bit more? I used to do that with my Vette tires when parked for a long time.

[babock]

I would like to know about that as well!

Originally Posted by 5picker

Could you explain interply shear on a parked R/V?

[Oaklevel]

Originally Posted by NJKris

I cover mine, and keep inflated to 50 psi recommended for my trailer, no props with flat spots. Should I air them up a bit more? I used to do that with my Vette tires when parked for a long time.

Mine were rated at 80PSI and kept them close to that. I did think it interesting I bought a used Mustang that had Westlake car tires on it.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by 5picker

Could you explain interply shear on a parked R/V?

Any time a tire is deflected (loaded) the cured rubber in the belt area moves away from the as cured state. Even if not rolling the area that is now flat on the road has been "bent" from the as cured state.
This bending causes shear forces between the belts, which at the molecular level can result in bonds breaking between the carbon, hydrogen and surfer atoms. If the bending is sufficient the tear gets larger.
If you have more air in the tire the bending is smaller than when you have lower inflation.
Other things happen too. "Cold Flat spotting" where a portion of the tread ends up flatter than the portion not loaded. This difference can result in vibration and shaking. The flat spot also hase to "work itself out" when you start driving. Again the change in shape when driving is rapid which can result in those broken molecular bonds.


The whole concept of getting longer tire life and better belt durability is to decreases these shear forces that come about because of the changes in shape of the belt package.


I will be posting a more detailed reply on my blog in a couple of weeks.

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by 67L48

I encourage everyone to fill out a NHTSA form for issues with their trucks, cars, tires, etc. I just did this with one of my vehicles and it took me about 5 minutes to do as I was watching TV.

It's a "loudest voice wins" kind of a proposition. That is, NHTSA only pursues companies and products if there is a critical mass (combined with safety, of course). If nobody logs their issues, then there are no data. If there are no data, then there isn't a problem.

So, as you have issues with any of your trailers, axles, tow vehicles, tires, etc., please take the 5-10 minutes to report it.

Here's a pic of a 3-year old Carlisle tire on my popup from a few years ago. Generally, these are decent tires, albeit not the premium GY Endurance. It happens to lots of brands, not just Castle Rock. Note the uneven wear from the previous owner running under-inflated. I probably exacerbated the problem by airing them back to correct pressure ... and I hit a pothole. Somehow, I drove at 65 mph for about 70 miles on this tire in that condition. Only when I hit stop-and-go traffic in Denver did I detect the ca-thump of the tire. Yikes. For being unlucky (losing the tire), I was super lucky (tread didn't peel away and destroy my trailer's wheel well ... or worse):

The carilse hd trails are comparable to GYE . the carilse you have looks to be one of their economy tires .

[5picker]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

Any time a tire is deflected (loaded) the cured rubber in the belt area moves away from the as cured state. Even if not rolling the area that is now flat on the road has been "bent" from the as cured state.
This bending causes shear forces between the belts, which at the molecular level can result in bonds breaking between the carbon, hydrogen and surfer atoms. If the bending is sufficient the tear gets larger.
If you have more air in the tire the bending is smaller than when you have lower inflation.
Other things happen too. "Cold Flat spotting" where a portion of the tread ends up flatter than the portion not loaded. This difference can result in vibration and shaking. The flat spot also hase to "work itself out" when you start driving. Again the change in shape when driving is rapid which can result in those broken molecular bonds.


The whole concept of getting longer tire life and better belt durability is to decreases these shear forces that come about because of the changes in shape of the belt package.


I will be posting a more detailed reply on my blog in a couple of weeks.

Thanks.

Sounds like tires should never be used or stored in any configuration other than the 'as cured' state or they simply self destruct.

Gonna have to figure out how to make these R/Vs hovercrafts.

[Mike134]

Originally Posted by 5picker

Thanks.

Sounds like tires should never be used or stored in any configuration other than the 'as cured' state or they simply self destruct.

Gonna have to figure out how to make these R/Vs hovercrafts.

I was thinking the same thing, and if you roll them down the highway they get flexed hundreds of times an hour

[dcheatwood]

No one wants to believe the possibility of a tire going "boom" on the highway until it happens. Took me 3 times, two with a total of about $4000 damage to accept that the tires (trail express) were trash. 2 sidewall blowouts and one tread separation. Less that 4000 miles on them.
When I replace all four, the fourth one was oval when removed from the rim. Dealer said it was tread separation again.
Sad.

[Tourist]

I have since added a 'steel' wire cutter and tin snips to my traveling tool roll.

This blow out was last fall heading north on I 29.

[Brother Les]

You might add a tire pressure monitoring system, then you will not drive so far when the tire goes flat (or boom).

Originally Posted by Tourist

I have since added a 'steel' wire cutter and tin snips to my traveling tool roll.

This blow out was last fall heading north on I 29.

https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...0&d=1582826848

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by 5picker

Thanks.

Sounds like tires should never be used or stored in any configuration other than the 'as cured' state or they simply self destruct.

Gonna have to figure out how to make these R/Vs hovercrafts.

A bit of an over-reaction. My advice is intended to offer a series of steps that can be takes to extend the life of their tires rather than actions or inaction that may shorten tire life.


One of the biggest problems is the inability of understanding the real "Root Cause" of a tire failure. IMO too many simply assume that somehow the zip code of the factory where the tires are made is a "cause" for a failure.
Have you read and do you understand the difference between the two major and different reasons (root cause) for failure as covered in THIS post?


TPMS, when properly set-up and used (see my blog posts) can essentially eliminate one of the two primary reasons for tire failure.


Having a good level (15% to 25%) Reserve Load is the second major thing people can do to get reasonable tire life. I would be very surprised to learn that tires with at least 15% actual Reserve Load didn't perform much better than the more normal 0% to 5% level.

[jj95]

I had my last TT (a 31' bumper pull, about 7k lbs) for 12 years, and experienced 5 flats (2 of which the tire was gone by the time I pulled over). 1 of them was on some back country roads and I drove for who knows how long. It had the Wide Trax suspension, and as a result the rim was on the ground. I suppose that helped from increasing the load on the other tire, but the rim was toast. It ground about 3/4" of aluminum off!

It originally came with load range C, 14" tires, Duro brand, bias ply tires (not steel belted). After reading issues with them, I found tread separating after about 400 miles. Replaced them all, spare included.

Did the same 4.5 years later (after 2 issues on the same trip).

When I went to do them all again after 4 more years, I wanted to step up to load range D. Evidently you cant find load range D on a 14", so I had to upgrade rims. I bought simple 15" steel wheels from etrailer.com (at $40 each or so IIRC), and then went tire shopping.

To my surprise, there were LOTS of D range tires in a 15", and significantly cheaper. I had some Carlysle's put on, and all told, rims + tires, it cost me about $50 more than replacing them all again with C's. Pulled so much better, and significantly better peace of mind. Had it that way for 2 years, until trading it a couple months ago. Wish I would have done it earlier.

My new 5er, of course, has Castle Rocks on it, and I am already looking to get them replaced with either GYE's or Carlyles again, not sure which yet.

Granted, most TT's are ordered and sold by dealers (who pick what options and such they want, based on what they can sell) - but I had to order my Sandpiper from the factory - I really wish GYE's would have been an option I could have selected on the order form. Would have saved me some money and saved 5 China Bombs from being recycled before they even lost their rubber hair! (I'm bald, so maybe I could work out a way to transplant or comb over and at least get some use out of them....)

[John Hill]

I think dealers should be required to 1) Upgrade the tries if requested as an option, so we don't end up with the China Bombs or better yet MFGs don't use them. 2) The MFG delivers with Nitrogen filled tires… but then the dealer does not have a nitrogen source and uses reg air to get tries after a year on the lot up to the correct pressure. Really? 3) Propane on site and several overnight spots with electric. Leaving a trailer for repairs after driving 225 miles, then turning around and driving the Tow vehicle back home, then 5 days later driving 225 miles again to pickup Trailer is not customer friendly. I bought an extra warranty, very expensive... but on anything still warranted by the MFG, they don't repair or replace it... They should repair and replace and then they should go to the MFG for reimbursement... My front tongue electric jack failed, I was literally stuck... Could not take it to the dealer or any dealer, bought replacement on Amazon for $119 delivered. , delivered next day and then got a mobil RV guy to help fix my TT. The warranty service will pay 125 bucks of the $150 service call, none of the 95/hr labor charge on top of th e charge to come to my house.... And of course I will now have to file a report to get even the $125, and who knows about getting the $119 for the jack reimbursed.... The JACK WAS FILLED WITH RUST and had only been used about 8 times in 4 months since I bought the TT(was in storage).


I had China bomb tires blow on my 5th wheel in 3,000 miles... and of course the MFG said the warranty was with the tire company... Who wanted us to ship the remains of the tires (as if we had room to carry the remains or run through the traffic on I10 gathering the shredded parts )...lol We did have pictures, no reimbursement. Worse I had to replace them on the road with more China Bombs until I could get some Good Years. And yes I did have a Tire monitoring system, which saved me on 3 of the tires from catastrophic failures. However , its really a pain to have to monitor the tires constantly out of fear... or keep moving them to the new tires, or replace their bats... No one is saving money nor piece of mind with the China Bombs,




I have had waits of up to 4 months to get my trailers fixed after a blow out has damaged the siding and then more damage done while sitting at the dealer waiting for parts.

[babock]

Originally Posted by John Hill

2) The MFG delivers with Nitrogen filled tires… but then the dealer does not have a nitrogen source and uses reg air to get tries after a year on the lot up to the correct pressure. Really?

I found a good place that supplied 78% nitrogen.

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by babock

I found a good place that supplied 78% nitrogen.

Me, too. Nitrogen-lite!

[Oaklevel]

I have mentioned this numerous times but I run China made tires on five trailers including the camper, over many years and thousands of miles. I have never had a blow out.

[Oaklevel]

Originally Posted by babock

I found a good place that supplied 78% nitrogen.

Me too and at no extra charge. Works great.

[Roosk]

I have a 2019 Rockwood MiniLite 2506s that came with Castle Rock 204-75/R14 (ST) tires and not knowing about that brand of tires began doing tire research and became familiar with "China Bomb" tires. After reading many comments, I replaced all my tires with Maxxix M8008 205/75/R214 (ST). I had already had a deflationary issue with one tire and wanted piece of mind as being broke down on the side of the road with a blowout and trailer damage isn't an appealing situation to this 68 year old guy! For me, the piece of mind to avoid potential expensive trailer repairs and/or road trip disaster and possible body injury was worth the expense.

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by Roosk

I have a 2019 Rockwood MiniLite 2506s that came with Castle Rock 204-75/R14 (ST) tires and not knowing about that brand of tires began doing tire research and became familiar with "China Bomb" tires. After reading many comments, I replaced all my tires with Maxxix M8008 205/75/R214 (ST). I had already had a deflationary issue with one tire and wanted piece of mind as being broke down on the side of the road with a blowout and trailer damage isn't an appealing situation to this 68 year old guy! For me, the piece of mind to avoid potential expensive trailer repairs and/or road trip disaster and possible body injury was worth the expense.

I looked-up the specs on your trailer and came-up with two axle possibilities. They could be 3500# axles de-rated to 3200# Vehicle GAWRs which would allow for LRC tires, or, the manufacturer could have giving the axles 3500# GAWRs which would require LRD tires because the LRCs would not qualify for 3500# axles. I hope you got the right ones.

[Roosk]

I got the Maxxis M8008 205/75/14 (same size as the Castle Rock OEM's) but went with the 8 ply Load Range "D". Should be the equivalent tire. Thanks for the information.