Failed bearing seals and contaminated brakes, TWICE !!!

[nazdackster]

Earlier this summer I thought my brakes were weak and sure enough, found 2 of 4 wheels had bad seals in back and grease all over the brakes. I chalked it up to previous owner going crazy with a grease gun. Unit is 3 years old. I cleaned it all up, replaced the seals with ones from the local trailer shop, inspected bearings, re-packed bearings by hand, and brakes were VERY good, all 4 operating properly and well adjusted.

Now, 5 months and maybe 2000 miles later, brakes feel weak again. Even with gain at 10, I barely feel braking. I note temperatures on drums and decide both rears are coolest and probably contaminated. Pulled one today, and sure enough, grease has escaped the seals, but only one one side, covering 180° of one of the seals (first picture below), as if caused by a non-concentric seal, like there was an air gap on one side.

Observations and comments:
1) When I first cleaned them, races looked good, but the outer races were not concentric with the casting. In other words, if I wanted to pound out the races, I could do one side, but not the other because the alignment was so far off before the first machining was done that there is no lip available for a drift (bad centering). This shouldn't matter right now unless the seal to bearing concentricity was off, which the first picture seems to indicate. I don't have a way to measure that.
2) At no time after the seals were installed did anyone add more grease. The newer seals look fine and un-damaged, but they are leaking.
3) Spindle seal and bearing surfaces look fine, no grooves or damage.
4) These are the spindles with the zerk fitting. According to the grease routing, as long as the seals are good, the rubber end piece acts as a vent, so pressure caused by bearing heat should be able to escape instead of forcing grease past the lip seal. But nope. I may drill a few micro holes in that cap just to make sure it stays vented. In no case was any grease sent through that zerk after the seals were changed.
5) Seals are 2.25x3.376 The seal looks perfect after wiping away grease.

I'm a bit stumped on what to do next. I know I did the job correctly, but here I am with bad brakes again. Any suggestions on what to try next? Is there a super tight style seal? A specific brand people like? New drum?
THANK YOU !!!

2nd picture: Brake assembly and spindle
3rd picture: Dust cap

[tomkatb]

I had a bent rear axle on an English car that did that!

If you jack up the wheel and spin it you could see it.

It was accident damage by the previous owner.

[nazdackster]

I found the manufacturer who supplies etrailer.com with a popular 2.25x3.376 double lip seal (TruRyde or trpintl.com). From trpintl.com catalog, I found a fully rubber coated seal that is manufactured for a #42 spindle, but instead of 2.250 ID, it is for a 2.230, meaning it will grip the shaft tighter. I called TruRyde and spoke with a gentleman who said that seal would be his choice for my problem as the next try. The PN is GS-2250-DLR. You won't find it, at least I didn't, until I called their distribution office and found a dealer who orders lots of them. That is McClain Trailer in Houston. Phone is 713-675-0440. I had to explain the entire issue before he finally confirmed it is from trpintl.com and is the exact same PN (they use a different PN)... 5.95 each plus shipping.

McClain is a boat place. I asked if he has any trouble with water getting in, and he said this is the only seal he uses for that spindle size, and he orders them boxes at a time. "They're awesome" he said... He didn't know they are 0.020 undersize on purpose but loves how they work and they don't have issues with leaking after.

I'll write back if this doesn't work, otherwise, that's what I'm doing.

I could also request etrailer to stock them, which I may do, but that could take a couple of weeks they said.

Keywords: Leaking grease tighter undersize shaft brakes seal

[nazdackster]

My brakes are still not anywhere near good enough... I removed one wheel to check and THE NEW SEALS ARE GREAT. But there was still grease residue in the shoes even after I scrubbed them with solvent, and even ultrasonic cleaned one set of shoes... While it looks OK, there is a film of grease on the shoes which is enough to defeat the braking, and there is also greasy black dust collecting on the drum.

I also checked the output of the controller and was getting a full 12V (I connected an auto headlight to the output and squeezed the trigger - this fooled the system into thinking there was a trailer and allowed me to activate it, and it glowed bright)

So now I have ordered a full set of self adjusting 12x2 from United RV, which had better prices than Amazon for genuine Lippert assemblies, and fast delivery (ordered Thursday morning at 8AM, will be delivered Saturday 2-6PM from Texas to IL). These get good reviews on Amazon and should be much nicer than the manual adjustment ones.

Putting the wheel back on after confirming seals are good, there is a definite area where you can feel the bearing engage first to align the hub, then I rotate the hub to wring it on. You can feel the seal expanding over the step much more than the other seals, so this is the seal I will be using from now on. I figure they are only a few weeks old, I won't be replacing them as I clean the hubs and replace all of the brake assemblies.

What a nightmare to have to do this job a third time, but at least now there is not grease flying around inside. Brake assemblies should be easy.

[Tuna1]

Thank You very much for your post and attention to details..I am going to take note of it for springtime hub maintenance..That's one more for the Marine industry and 0 for the RV industry..

[Camp20144]

It sounds like your power check didn’t include the trailer wiring. I’ve seen other brake problem situations, on this and other forums, where the person also had trailer wiring issues compounding weak brake issues. I mention this because you did your power check. Are you getting full power back to your brakes consistently, or do you have a weak link in your brake wiring?

[nazdackster]

I did not disassemble anything to test the brake wiring at the connections. I don't think this can be done easily without using another gel filled connector. Wires are already pretty short. But I did get all of the new brakes installed and will test again next time I pull it out of the driveway.

Edit: I think I could jam a small pin down into into a wire hole through the gel and make contact with the plate that binds the wires together. I think I'll test that next... Thanks for the idea.

[nazdackster]

The specification from Lippert for the axle seals is not 2.250, it is 2.22. Nobody sells those, but it is no wonder that seals, which typically have a diameter tolerance of ±0.002" leak when 2.25" seals are used where 2.22 seals are specified. The closest I can find are the seals I mentioned above at 2.23". I don't think even Lippert is aware given that everyone sells 2.25" seals as if they all will work. They don't in my now somewhat extensive experience. In fact, if you look up that Lippert PN, you will find many seals at 2.25". Granted, even 2.25" seals will have a nominal ID that is smaller than the 2.25" shaft, but how much smaller?

Attached is an image from the catalog file:///C:/Users/Michael/Google%20Drive/RV/Manuals/Lippert-Axle-2K-7K-Maintenance-Manual.pdf page 41.

I did replace all of the brake assemblies with self-adjusting and while the old ones looked OK when I cleaned them before, 2 now had grease residue, like a grease film on them when I took them off. Others looked glazed. The one that was working best (the hottest one) has a worse surface finish than the others on the drum, with grooves starting. I was probably seeing quite a bit more work and temperature with the gain set so high.

The new seals seem to be doing fine and that is not the source, all 4 looked good, no leaks. Still took 2 hours each to do the brakes, including another thorough cleaning of each drum for good measure. It is a simple process though, not bad, I'm just very careful about things (I'm slow).

[D W]

Originally Posted by nazdackster

I did not disassemble anything to test the brake wiring at the connections. I don't think this can be done easily without using another gel filled connector. Wires are already pretty short. But I did get all of the new brakes installed and will test again next time I pull it out of the driveway.

Edit: I think I could jam a small pin down into into a wire hole through the gel and make contact with the plate that binds the wires together. I think I'll test that next... Thanks for the idea.

NOTE here: If you're careful you can gently remove the compression portion of those Scotchlok connectors with some pliers and then reinstall them. If you lose some of the silicone gel you can always replace it with this:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Permatex-...85184/37202082

Also, I have had sucess using "T Pins" to slide in beside the wire connectors to measure voltage:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Pen-Gear-...lver/122441179