Failed Bearing, trying to get home

[5picker]

Originally Posted by jimla

I know this is going to stir it up. My son, friend and myself checked wheel bearings on our TT's all of use found that the bearings were packed with grease but the hollow cavity of the hub was bone dry. Some will say they don't need to be packed full of grease. I differ because if the hub is full of grease it will say keep the bearings greased.

Ask 10 different people and get 10 different answers... here's mine...

There is no reason to fill the entire hub with grease 'unless' it is on a trailer that is submerged in water. (boat trailer) In that case the grease not only lubricates the bearings but it also helps keep water out.

On a R/V trailer axle that is not a requirement nor has it been in any automotive service literature I've ever seen dating back many years when taper roller bearings were the norm on automobiles.

Too much grease can be as bad as too little and it is one of the reasons I think we see so many EZ-Lube axles throwing grease past the rear seal.

A properly greased taper bearing will never need any of the grease in the hub and really has no way of getting it.

Unless you get the grease temperature to a dropping point (too hot) that grease in the hub stays right where it is as it does in/on the bearings/races.

A thin film of grease on the spindle is the only recommendation I've seen in 50 years. If it matters, I hold both Ford Motor Company and ASE Master Technician Certs in every category.

To each their own.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by 5picker

Too much grease can be as bad as too little and it is one of the reasons I think we see so many EZ-Lube axles throwing grease past the rear seal.

Two notes on the EZ-Lube Axle:

The hub is designed differently than those for "standard" spindles that are not drilled for grease passages. There's not as large a void to be filled with grease so unlike a conventional hub there is no huge handful of grease just sitting there doing nothing.

Second, when properly done (Like following the instructions to the letter) lubing bearings with the EZ-Lube system is no more problematic than taking the entire assembly apart and lubing by hand. Do that wrong and you can have issues too.

If one uses a hand grease gun and per instructions rotates wheel and SLOWLY adds grease the likelihood of having grease leak past the double lipped seal is no more than that when someone greases by hand and damages the new seal by using improper tools.

EZ-Lube axles don't need grease every trip. A once per year inspection and lube, just like when doing a hand bearing pack, is more than enough. Dexter only recommends frequent grease application to EZ-Lube axles when on boat trailers that get immersed ------ for obvious reasons.

The EZ-Lube system is new and definitely different than what us old-timers are used to but just like anything else, when following the instructions they're no more problem than the old style. I've seen more than my share of botched "hand packed jobs" too.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Two notes on the EZ-Lube Axle:

The hub is designed differently than those for "standard" spindles that are not drilled for grease passages. There's not as large a void to be filled with grease so unlike a conventional hub there is no huge handful of grease just sitting there doing nothing.

Second, when properly done (Like following the instructions to the letter) lubing bearings with the EZ-Lube system is no more problematic than taking the entire assembly apart and lubing by hand. Do that wrong and you can have issues too.

If one uses a hand grease gun and per instructions rotates wheel and SLOWLY adds grease the likelihood of having grease leak past the double lipped seal is no more than that when someone greases by hand and damages the new seal by using improper tools.

EZ-Lube axles don't need grease every trip. A once per year inspection and lube, just like when doing a hand bearing pack, is more than enough. Dexter only recommends frequent grease application to EZ-Lube axles when on boat trailers that get immersed ------ for obvious reasons.

The EZ-Lube system is new and definitely different than what us old-timers are used to but just like anything else, when following the instructions they're no more problem than the old style. I've seen more than my share of botched "hand packed jobs" too.

Mike, I'm pretty sure we are on the same page but since we are pointing things out, I have to say I don't believe the hub's interior void is much different on the EZ-Lube axles than on a non.

I just repacked my EZ-Lube axles a few weeks ago by hand (had previously only added grease in the same manner you described above) and replaced the seals and there was at least a good full handful (or more) of old grease in the void of the hub between the bearings. I've also seen many posts saying they used almost a tube of grease per wheel to get grease pushing out the front bearings so saying there isn't much room for grease in there may not be quite true.

And for those following along... that grease isn't in the hub because the bearings need it, it is simply the design of how the FRONT bearing gets grease, by pushing out the grease from the rear bearing, through the hub and past the front bearing.

None the less, I agree with everything else you said.

[pgandw]

Originally Posted by 5picker

Ask 10 different people and get 10 different answers... here's mine...

There is no reason to fill the entire hub with grease 'unless' it is on a trailer that is submerged in water. (boat trailer) In that case the grease not only lubricates the bearings but it also helps keep water out.

On a R/V trailer axle that is not a requirement nor has it been in any automotive service literature I've ever seen dating back many years when taper roller bearings were the norm on automobiles.

Too much grease can be as bad as too little and it is one of the reasons I think we see so many EZ-Lube axles throwing grease past the rear seal.

A properly greased taper bearing will never need any of the grease in the hub and really has no way of getting it.

Unless you get the grease temperature to a dropping point (too hot) that grease in the hub stays right where it is as it does in/on the bearings/races.

A thin film of grease on the spindle is the only recommendation I've seen in 50 years. If it matters, I hold both Ford Motor Company and ASE Master Technician Certs in every category.

To each their own.

I'm in agreement with 5 Picker on this one. While I do dislike cleaning out old grease in a hand pack, a complete grease substitution is much more satisfying than pumping and wondering if I put enough in to actually get to the front bearing (without leaking past the rear seal). Because I do hand pack, and do clean out all old grease, just a thin film on the hub and spindle makes life easier - and is sufficient to prevent rust/corrosion on the hub and spindle.

I do not repack every year. I'll go as long as 3 years if the brakes continue functioning as expected, and negligible heat from the hub to my hand touch at a pit stop. But then I'm towing an A-frame with a GVW of 3350lbs.

I did a repack 8 months after buying my new A-frame because of all the horror stories. Both wheels had been hand packed at the factory, and the grease in the bearings was a nice purple color. No excess in the hub (which made me happier). Removing the wheels for the repack gave me the opportunity to go have the Castle Rocks balanced and inspected at my tire store. Aside from the visually disturbing slight concave curve across the tire tread (same on all 3 tires), all is/was well.

Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame
2008 Hyundai Entourage minivan
camping Colorado and adjacent states one weekend at a time

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by 5picker

Mike, I'm pretty sure we are on the same page but since we are pointing things out, I have to say I don't believe the hub's interior void is much different on the EZ-Lube axles than on a non.

I just repacked my EZ-Lube axles a few weeks ago by hand (had previously only added grease in the same manner you described above) and replaced the seals and there was at least a good full handful (or more) of old grease in the void of the hub between the bearings. I've also seen many posts saying they used almost a tube of grease per wheel to get grease pushing out the front bearings so saying there isn't much room for grease in there may not be quite true.

And for those following along... that grease isn't in the hub because the bearings need it, it is simply the design of how the FRONT bearing gets grease, by pushing out the grease from the rear bearing, through the hub and past the front bearing.

None the less, I agree with everything else you said.

Not challenging your findings with your axles but when I pulled a hub a couple weeks ago for a quick brake check I found only small amount of grease in the void which seemed a LOT smaller than what I was used to with my old trailer's axles.

From what I've seen in cutaway drawings for the EZ-Lube versus old cutaways's for non EZ lube axles it sure seems they are smaller. It appears in the drawing (and likewise when I removed my hub) that there isn't a lot more grease in the hub than what is squeezed out of the freshly hand packed bearings when tightening and adjusting nut.

The EZ-Lube spindle/hub:


Here's the hub design I'm comparing with:



Older designs often had huge voids in the hub that were un-machined. Only the race/cup mounting surfaces were machined and spindles were "straight tapered" from rear bearing surface to front bearing surface.


Perhaps it's just perception along with the fact my old trailer was a 1995 model. A lot can change in 22 years

My TT is on it's third year and I've had zero issues with the EZ-Lube system. I find the "Half a Tube to fill" stories strange as I am still on the first tube having re-lubed twice so far. Wheels are still nice and "snug" on the bearings (just slight free-play by feel but not visible) and nice smooth rotation.

I'm kind of a minimalist when it comes to bearings. I check frequently for free-play and smoothness of operation. A brake check annually, with a little more lube. 22 years on my old 95 with no bearing failures so as they say "works for me".

[5picker]

You are right right Mike... probably was my imagination/perception.

[LegacyFB38]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

...
I find the "Half a Tube to fill" stories strange as I am still on the first tube having re-lubed twice so far.
...

I had a very knowledgeable tech/service manager at a RV repair shop tell me he finds EZ-Lube axles needing little grease to get flow through the outside bearings. He was VERY surprised that my 2 axles (8000# each w/ disc brakes) took several tubes of grease! (He immediately dropped to the ground to check the rear seals expecting to see an awful mess! ) I would fully expect subsequent service will take little grease.

My guess is that there is significant differences in the cavities of various axles.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by 5picker

You are right right Mike... probably was my imagination/perception.

I was actually referring to MY perception. Didn't mean you were imagining.


Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[rsdata]

The EZ-Lube system is new and definitely different than what us old-timers are used to but just like anything else, when following the instructions they're no more problem than the old style.

agreed...

I have had two trailers both with EZ-lube and no troubles... a little grease added while lifted and spinning the wheel works.

[nutdriver]

Until I purchased my current Coachmen trailer, I have always packed wheel bearings by hand. I finally decided it was time to get with the program and give EZ Lube a try and to suppress the voices that reported brake contamination complications. After about 3000 miles but before another 3000 mile trip I jacked up each wheel and while rotating the hub I slowly pumped in grease until it started to come out of the spindle.
After additional miles, I decided I really wanted to inspect each brake assembly and to validate the condition of each bearing. To my horror, I found that on one wheel, the seal had actually been pressed out of the hub I assume from the hydraulic pressure of the grease gun and allowed grease to enter my brake assembly. I do not know what the failure rate is overall but I am confident in saying it is not zero.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by nutdriver

To my horror, I found that on one wheel, the seal had actually been pressed out of the hub I assume from the hydraulic pressure of the grease gun and allowed grease to enter my brake assembly. I do not know what the failure rate is overall but I am confident in saying it is not zero.

Not implying that the seal wasn't pushed out by grease pressure but that is rather strange.

Over the years I have removed my fair share of axle/spindle seals and they usually need some extra muscle to remove, even with the right tool(s). Likewise to install them.

It could well be possible that someone installed an improper seal or did so improperly. The fact that only one of the three was pushed out even further makes me think that. I'm sure you used the same amount of effort when adding grease and it didn't press the others out.

So far, no issues here.

[nutdriver]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Not implying that the seal wasn't pushed out by grease pressure but that is rather strange.

Over the years I have removed my fair share of axle/spindle seals and they usually need some extra muscle to remove, even with the right tool(s). Likewise to install them.

It could well be possible that someone installed an improper seal or did so improperly. The fact that only one of the three was pushed out even further makes me think that. I'm sure you used the same amount of effort when adding grease and it didn't press the others out.

So far, no issues here.

Titan Mike - All good points. I am assuming the seal was properly installed. I emphasize the word "assuming" since I have no way of knowing for sure. I did confirm that the proper seal had been used. The amount of effort to remove the seals from the other three wheels was what I would consider normal. I did use "Green Grease" and that is fairly heavy viscosity so perhaps that was a contributing factor. I really do not recall any difference in the effort required on the grease gun and none of the wheels took excessive amount of grease. Grease did exit as expected from the end of the spindle once filled. I finished all wheels on one tube and had some left over. I am just offering a word of caution to those who are considering this. I can accept that the risk is low but I would add that I am not the first person this has contaminated their brakes with grease using EZ Lube. I have certainly gone over this in my head several times trying to explain what happened.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by nutdriver

Titan Mike - All good points. I am assuming the seal was properly installed. I emphasize the word "assuming" since I have no way of knowing for sure. I did confirm that the proper seal had been used. The amount of effort to remove the seals from the other three wheels was what I would consider normal. I did use "Green Grease" and that is fairly heavy viscosity so perhaps that was a contributing factor. I really do not recall any difference in the effort required on the grease gun and none of the wheels took excessive amount of grease. Grease did exit as expected from the end of the spindle once filled. I finished all wheels on one tube and had some left over. I am just offering a word of caution to those who are considering this. I can accept that the risk is low but I would add that I am not the first person this has contaminated their brakes with grease using EZ Lube. I have certainly gone over this in my head several times trying to explain what happened.

I've read many comments where people have found the job easier when weather and grease was warmer.

I just use a regular grease recommended by Dexter and it flows through bearings easily.

Not muck effort required on grease gun.

Thicker greases may allow for greater pressure buildup where grease exits near rear seal.

Don't know, just thinking.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

I was actually referring to MY perception. Didn't mean you were imagining.


Sorry for the misunderstanding.

No apologies necessary.

I said in my first sentence when I quoted your post that I'm sure you and I are on the same page.

And I agree folks tend to over complicate the thinking on greasing wheel bearings and tend to overdo it.

EZ-Lube has its place, especially for those not mechanically inclined to pull wheels and pack by hand.

My only disappointment in them is there is no 'sure' way to know if you've pushed grease past the rear seal unless you pull the wheel/hub and if/when you do that, you may as well hand pack them.

It's all good!

[nayther]

so what happened to the OP?

[rsdata]

so what happened to the OP?

THE OP first posted at 2AM Sat night/ Sunday morning. He is probably busy all day on Monday getting the rig fixed. If he is anywhere there is snow, who knows what other problems he may be having.

[TitanMike]

This thread is a good example of why one should carry a set of bearings and seal for at least one wheel on their trailer.

Don't really need to tear things apart to find numbers. Read tag on axle, call Dexter Customer Service and get numbers. Typically numbers like LMxxxxxx are universal and can be matched at any auto parts store.

A hammer, a tapered punch about 10 inches long with flat point, and a 6" piece of 2X4 to help get bearing race (cup) started as well as starting the seal into place will prove handy too.

Oh yeah, a roll of paper towels and some grease

[babock]

Originally Posted by nutdriver

I do not know what the failure rate is overall but I am confident in saying it is not zero.

Agreed...which is why I will NEVER use the EZ lube "feature".

I do follow Dexter's recommendation of pulling the hubs every year. I like checking the brakes as well as the bearings.

On another blog just saw someone replacing a Dexter Nevr adjust brake because of a failure with the adjuster rod. I am going to be doing a trip for southern California to the Dakotas next year. I want to make sure my brakes/bearings are fine before a trip of that length.

[babock]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

This thread is a good example of why one should carry a set of bearings and seal for at least one wheel on their trailer.

Don't really need to tear things apart to find numbers. Read tag on axle, call Dexter Customer Service and get numbers. Typically numbers like LMxxxxxx are universal and can be matched at any auto parts store.

A hammer, a tapered punch about 10 inches long with flat point, and a 6" piece of 2X4 to help get bearing race (cup) started as well as starting the seal into place will prove handy too.

Oh yeah, a roll of paper towels and some grease

On my boat trailer, I actually welded a spindle onto the trailer and carry a brand new spare hub/disc with fully greased bearings and seal. My spare tire mounts to it. Actually thought about carrying an entire spare drum for my TT and I might do that next year. Even just an idler hub with full bearings would be a good idea...less room/weight than a drum

[Tom48]

Originally Posted by dave961

On our way home from a week of camping and had a bearing failure. Just had them repacked earlier this year. Spent hours at NAPA trying to find the right bearing with no luck. Difficult to get service on this holiday weekend.

I am wondering if there is a web site that tells me the exact part numbers I need for the inner and outer bearings and seals. We have a 2014 XLR 27HFS. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Ours came from FR factory in Rialto, CA with Lippert axle book on many factory axles. Then knowing ours are 5200 lb axles I am given one specific bearing for inner and two options for the putter. Found them in local industrial bearing supply and my local (one of a kind locally) trailer supply. IN STOCK. With the old trailer we had five lug 3500 lb axles and they were standard to small trailers every. Sunday, not too many options and I was an agricultural area where O'Reilly's was the only store open Sunday. They had those standard bearings and seals but easier, they had a while spindle with bearings and seals pressed in. Easy peasy. $54 and back on the road. No brakes but hey the other 3 had brakes and we were on the road with install time of just minutes after it was on blocks and I had the bad one off.

Never leave home now without at least one bearing set, packed w grease and ready to go.