First Time Electric Brake Adjustment

[gkochel]

Hello, Lippert axles and every video I have watched said to rotate the sprocket wheel UP to bring the shoes closer to the lining. In doing so everything became very loose. So I then reversed and went DOWN which eventually made it hard to turn the tire and I then backed off until it had just a little bit of rub. So in my mind they are adjusted properly but I am concerned about the opposite direction I needed to go with mine. Depending on the unit can it be either way or did I just set myself up for a problem once I tow with it? Also wondering if I have auto adjusting brakes , there is a spring loaded arm that engages with the sprockets? Thanks

[Bama Rambler]

Sounds like you did right to me. Did both sides operate the same or was one side 'up' and the other side 'down'?

[jeff64]

Originally Posted by gkochel

Hello, Lippert axles and every video I have watched said to rotate the sprocket wheel UP to bring the shoes closer to the lining. In doing so everything became very loose. So I then reversed and went DOWN which eventually made it hard to turn the tire and I then backed off until it had just a little bit of rub. So in my mind they are adjusted properly but I am concerned about the opposite direction I needed to go with mine. Depending on the unit can it be either way or did I just set myself up for a problem once I tow with it? Also wondering if I have auto adjusting brakes , there is a spring loaded arm that engages with the sprockets? Thanks

Having graduated from an automotive program at one time in my career, a couple observations.
Since these have self adjusting brakes, there is a left and right side wich in all likelihood could indicate a different thread. Different direction of rotation from side to side. Unlike automotive drum brakes which ratchet up in reverse when you hit the brakes, these are forward adjusting when you brake.
Any set of shoes is probably not an exact fit to the drum. There will be some high spots that will wear down. Call it break in, if you will. Adjustment may be required. From my view about 4-6K mi. As I increase the gain and see the panic button doesn't have quite the grab I desire, I adjust the brakes manually. In days of old , mechanics would have the shops arc the shoes to the drum to mate them to the drum diameter. I don't recommend any of you neophytes out there pursue this.
Your procedure on adjustment is probably sufficient, as long as you jacked the wheel up, rotated the wheel an listened for abnormal grinding in both directions.... adjusted until you felt drag from the shoes and still could rotate the wheel freely you should be good. The more drag you have, the hotter the hub will run. If your gain setting and panic button function are satisfactory, ship it!

[gkochel]

Originally Posted by Bama Rambler

Sounds like you did right to me. Did both sides operate the same or was one side 'up' and the other side 'down'?

Yes both sides tightened in the same direction which was down , thanks

[gkochel]

Originally Posted by jeff64

Having graduated from an automotive program at one time in my career, a couple observations.
Since these have self adjusting brakes, there is a left and right side wich in all likelihood could indicate a different thread. Different direction of rotation from side to side. Unlike automotive drum brakes which ratchet up in reverse when you hit the brakes, these are forward adjusting when you brake.
Any set of shoes is probably not an exact fit to the drum. There will be some high spots that will wear down. Call it break in, if you will. Adjustment may be required. From my view about 4-6K mi. As I increase the gain and see the panic button doesn't have quite the grab I desire, I adjust the brakes manually. In days of old , mechanics would have the shops arc the shoes to the drum to mate them to the drum diameter. I don't recommend any of you neophytes out there pursue this.
Your procedure on adjustment is probably sufficient, as long as you jacked the wheel up, rotated the wheel an listened for abnormal grinding in both directions.... adjusted until you felt drag from the shoes and still could rotate the wheel freely you should be good. The more drag you have, the hotter the hub will run. If your gain setting and panic button function are satisfactory, ship it!

Great info appreciate it! The owners manual did not say that I have self adjusting or which direction to go which I thought was odd, but all the videos as I mentioned spoke about pushing the sprocket wheels up to tighten. I must have a special setup. Lol.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by gkochel

Yes both sides tightened in the same direction which was down , thanks

One thing to consider is that when you insert the tool into the backing plate, and move the end in your hand DOWN, you are actually moving the "sprockets" on the adjusting wheel UP.

Only thing that matters is that you got them adjusted
To see if you have self-adjusting (Nev-R-Adjust) brakes just check the back side of the axle for the factory sticker. Should say in large letters.

[Bob K4TAX]

With a brake adjusting spoon, wrench, or tool, whatever you call it, when the tool lever goes down the wheel inside goes up. That is because the tool contact area is at the bottom of the ratchet wheel or below the axis of the adjustment wheel. It is like a see-saw, when one end goes down the other end goes up.

So both are right, up is down, and down is up.

Our 2016 trailer does not have self-adjusting brakes. Neither did our 2009 trailer. Both had Lipert axles.

Bob

[gkochel]

Originally Posted by Bob K4TAX

With a brake adjusting spoon, wrench, or tool, whatever you call it, when the tool lever goes down the wheel inside goes up. That is because the tool contact area is at the bottom of the ratchet wheel or below the axis of the adjustment wheel. It is like a see-saw, when one end goes down the other end goes up.



So both are right, up is down, and down is up.



Our 2016 trailer does not have self-adjusting brakes. Neither did our 2009 trailer. Both had Lipert axles.



Bob

Thanks Bob I will look on the axle for the label. I get the dynamics of the tool, in my case I had to move the spring loaded arm out of the way with a pick and with a small screw driver was literally “spinning “ the wheel down or up.

[gkochel]

One final question, if I do have self adjust brakes do you still manually adjust each year ? These needed to be adjusted in more than I would think they should have. But I will say it’s been 2 years and 1600 miles since the bearings were repacked at a shop.

[jeff64]

The ratchet pawl moves the adjustment tighter. That's why you have to push it out of the way to be able to back off the adjustment if you went too far. IMHO if your gain adjustment and panic button operation is acceptable to you 1600 mi. is nothing

[gkochel]

Originally Posted by jeff64

The ratchet pawl moves the adjustment tighter. That's why you have to push it out of the way to be able to back off the adjustment if you went too far. IMHO if your gain adjustment and panic button operation is acceptable to you 1600 mi. is nothing

Good deal, thanks everyone for your input !

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by jeff64

Having graduated from an automotive program at one time in my career, a couple observations.
Since these have self adjusting brakes, there is a left and right side which in all likelihood could indicate a different thread. Different direction of rotation from side to side. Unlike automotive drum brakes which ratchet up in reverse when you hit the brakes, these are forward adjusting when you brake.
Any set of shoes is probably not an exact fit to the drum. There will be some high spots that will wear down. Call it break in, if you will. Adjustment may be required. From my view about 4-6K mi. As I increase the gain and see the panic button doesn't have quite the grab I desire, I adjust the brakes manually. In days of old , mechanics would have the shops arc the shoes to the drum to mate them to the drum diameter. I don't recommend any of you neophytes out there pursue this.
Your procedure on adjustment is probably sufficient, as long as you jacked the wheel up, rotated the wheel an listened for abnormal grinding in both directions.... adjusted until you felt drag from the shoes and still could rotate the wheel freely you should be good. The more drag you have, the hotter the hub will run. If your gain setting and panic button function are satisfactory, ship it!

Jeff, In the good old days (pre-self-adjusting brakes), the adjusters could both be right-hand thread, or could differ from one-another. Now that self-adjusters are used, the adjustments MUST be different from side to side, in order for the self-adjustments to work. (Think of the ratchet mechanism that relies on "windup" of the shoe assembly.)

Ahh, yes, arcing the shoes in the old days. When I worked in the filling station/light mechanics (1962-3), I remember frequently taking the drums to the nearby machine shop for turning. They always provided new shoes and I used to watch them being arc'd. Of course the shoes were contained asbestos and none of us (including the machinists) wore masks or respirators.

This was just prior to when I got my driver license. I used to carry the drums, walking, to the machine shop, and drums plus shoes on the return. Fortunately it was only a block away.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by gkochel

Thanks Bob I will look on the axle for the label. I get the dynamics of the tool, in my case I had to move the spring loaded arm out of the way with a pick and with a small screw driver was literally “spinning “ the wheel down or up.

With that spring loaded arm pushed out of the way the adjusting wheel will be free to move either direction. It's the ratchet pawl in an auto adjust mechanism on drum brakes. Non auto adjust brake adjusters won't have the sping loaded arm and the "adjust wheel" is held in place by the side of the spring that holds the bottom of the brake shoes together and aginst the ends of the adjuster.

The adjuster wheel can be moved in the "tighter" direction without releasing the ratchet pawl and it needs to be released as you did in order to "loosen".

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by gkochel

One final question, if I do have self adjust brakes do you still manually adjust each year ? These needed to be adjusted in more than I would think they should have. But I will say it’s been 2 years and 1600 miles since the bearings were repacked at a shop.

Self/auto adjust electric brakes can be adjusted merely by operating them with the manual lever on the brake controller. While traveling at a slower speed, ~20 mph, apply the brakes fully with the lever and release. Repeat several times but not so often to overheat the brakes. You will feel when the adjustment is adequate.

Depending on miles driven and how often the brakes are applied heavily, this manual adjust may be needed to do some "catch up".

Disc Brakes don't have this characteristic and most cars/trucks today require no adjustments. If equipped with auto adjust rear brakes they get adjusted every time you stop in reverse. Trailer brakes work when stopping in the forward direction.

[gkochel]

Great info guys, thanks again

[CedarCreekWoody]

Just be aware that all brakes are not necessarily self adjusting. They still use both types.

[gkochel]

Just a follow up , towed for the first time after adjusting and what a difference! While on this trip encountered a really bad thunderstorm with high winds and no shoulder to pull over. Went around a bend and a tree had just fallen, only choice was to stop in a short order which thankfully it did just in time. Had I not just tweaked the adjustment I am sure I would have been into that tree.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by gkochel

Just a follow up , towed for the first time after adjusting and what a difference! While on this trip encountered a really bad thunderstorm with high winds and no shoulder to pull over. Went around a bend and a tree had just fallen, only choice was to stop in a short order which thankfully it did just in time. Had I not just tweaked the adjustment I am sure I would have been into that tree.

Keep an eye on it. If the brakes are not self-adjusting (I doubt that) or the assemblies were mounted on the wrong sides, the shoes will wear and need adjusting again. Be alert for this.

[jeff64]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Self/auto adjust electric brakes can be adjusted merely by operating them with the manual lever on the brake controller. While traveling at a slower speed, ~20 mph, apply the brakes fully with the lever and release. Repeat several times but not so often to overheat the brakes. You will feel when the adjustment is adequate.



Depending on miles driven and how often the brakes are applied heavily, this manual adjust may be needed to do some "catch up".



Disc Brakes don't have this characteristic and most cars/trucks today require no adjustments. If equipped with auto adjust rear brakes they get adjusted every time you stop in reverse. Trailer brakes work when stopping in the forward direction.

Never thought of using the manual override for that purpose, but I believe you are correct

[gw1800]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Self/auto adjust electric brakes can be adjusted merely by operating them with the manual lever on the brake controller. While traveling at a slower speed, ~20 mph, apply the brakes fully with the lever and release. Repeat several times but not so often to overheat the brakes. You will feel when the adjustment is adequate.

Depending on miles driven and how often the brakes are applied heavily, this manual adjust may be needed to do some "catch up".

Disc Brakes don't have this characteristic and most cars/trucks today require no adjustments. If equipped with auto adjust rear brakes they get adjusted every time you stop in reverse. Trailer brakes work when stopping in the forward direction.

Yes, the trailer brakes self adjust moving forward and using the brake controller. It's not like the old drum brakes on cars that adjusted only in reverse ad hitting the brakes.