How common are trailer frame failures?

[Comanchecreek]

Originally Posted by McKannick

Stuff happens

My welder buddy that installed my hitch, also put reinforcement from the hitch to the bumper where the spare tire mount attaches to the bumper to stop just what you show in the picture. I wouldn't hang anything else on the bumper. They are thin metal, and even with good welds the metal can tear.

[dedobias]

Considering it's like an earthquake every time the trailers hits a big bump or pot hole, metal/weld fatigue is inevitable.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by dedobias

Considering it's like an earthquake every time the trailers hits a big bump or pot hole, metal/weld fatigue is inevitable.

Only if the TT has no springs.

[dedobias]

Or after a few beers.

[dedobias]

Originally Posted by hobienick

Assuming the frame can take the cantilevered weight off the rear, why is it not OK to put weight on the back of a TT if the TT is loaded within its GVWR and has the proper amount of tongue weight?

Based on your first statement in the quoted post no one should ever put any weight behind the axles of their TT. Please support your statement with numbers and facts.

Your first statement "assuming the frame can take the cantilevered weight" is where most people who are not mechanical or professional engineers get in trouble. ASSume.

[jfc317]

So here is how my frame, floor to walls failed on our Apex Nano with 4" frame rails.
With just the weight of spare tire and mounting bracket on the bumper, the cantilevered portion of the frame behind the single axle flexed downward with enough force to tear the walls loose from the floor. This was after running many miles on rough roads in the southwest. The walls are rigid in comparison to the floor/frame. So if you have a light weight frame, hanging anything on it might cause the same result. Unfortunately, FR and Lippert have gone silent on me.
I would recommend not adding anything to the bumper.
Jim C.
Apex 191RBS

[phillyg]

[QUOTE=CustomBuild;2504553]......In general it looks to me like I'm going to need to review my y 22RBHL.

A: Since it's a hyperlite model then yes, I'd suspect the bumper is not strong enough without restructuring, but I can't tell without a photo.

.......One point of concern though is the common mention of "it will void the frame warranty".

A: How long's your frame warranty? If only a year, I'd not worry about that.

......I have.......zero regard for Forest River warranty. Might the wheels drop off? Will the cross members fail at their weld joints? What are the chances of the drawbar tearing from the frame? Do the frames really fail or is it mythical?

A: I can only opine that I'd think the failure point would be where the bumper attaches to the frame rather than further forward.

......Why do Forest River warranty the frame and highlight the warranty will be voided if anything is added to the rear bumper?

A: My guess is lawyer weasel words because they know that's a common place for adding bike racks.

......Right now I'm thinking about extending the I beams on both sides and installing a new bar (maybe an I beam) from side to side with the objective of safely supporting 300 lbs approximately 18" from the rear of the trailer.

A: I think that's a good plan, in conjunction with getting a good welding person to provide advice, but maybe consider less than 300lbs. Do you really need to carry that much weight? My bike rack and two bikes is less than 100lbs.

....... If I go ahead with that idea, I think I may as well remove the 4" bumper bar unless that would be best left intact for insurance or any regulatory requirements.

A: Some TTs and FWs come without bumpers, so no, i don't think there's any requirement for them.

.......Does anyone have experience of frame failure or warranty issues and/or knowledge of any legal aspect relating to the factory bumper bar?

A: I don't.

[Mandog]

I’m a welder/fabricator and have repaired many trailers over the years. The common failures I see are spring shackle to frame cracks and distortion, cross members cracked and rear bumper failures at attachment points. I’ve repaired a few bent forward frames from jack knife incidents. Adding load carrying capabilities to the rear can be done by installing tubing up into the existing frame. It does have the ability to add more spring load which places stress on the frame, tires and suspension that wasn’t designed for. An additional 100-200lbs with a well designed extension would be fine as long as your not unloading the hitch to much.

[CustomBuild]

Originally Posted by jrk341

I added these to help with lateral movement of the spring hangers.

https://www.morryde.com/products/x-factor-crossmember/

Thanks. I've made a note of that item. It's certainly interesting with the wide stance on the 22RBHL axles. I noticed the other day that a tight maneuver really places tremendous side force on the tires, which must be leading directly to a higher force on the hangers.

[TitanMike]

Worth mentioning that not all trailers today use springs with spring hangars welded to the frame. Those that do have all the stress focused on 2-3 points, each frame rail,.

Trailers with torsion axles have the axles themselves supported in a sub frame that in turn is bolted to the trailer frame. This distributes load and stress over a much greater area and what may "break" a frame being supportrd on springs is less an issue on the torsion spring setups.

[CustomBuild]

[QUOTE=phillyg;2512062]

Originally Posted by CustomBuild

.

A: ......... but maybe consider less than 300lbs. Do you really need to carry that much weight? My bike rack and two bikes is less than 100lbs.

I was thinking about a small motorbike at 227lbs with the rest of the weight being the rack, supporting members and a load ramp.

I'm still on the fence with the idea and trying to balance how much fun the bike would be versus the hassles and risks of making a suitable rack. I have another consideration which is my generator and currently that is key to my trailer tongue weight. If I go ahead with the bike and rack, I think the generator will need to be up front. If I don't go ahead with the bike, the generator might be best off at the back.

If I end up with only a generator at the back, my total weight including a support frame will be under 100lbs and be closer to the TT body.

My next stage of planning will be to review the total trailer weight and hitch weight. I can't get the hitch weight though until I clear up a lot of the other work that I'm doing and get the TT closer to how it will be once we finally hit the road.

[hobienick]

Originally Posted by dedobias

Your first statement "assuming the frame can take the cantilevered weight" is where most people who are not mechanical or professional engineers get in trouble. ASSume.

The intent of my saying "assuming" was clearly to focus on the absurdity of telling people that putting weight behind TT axels causes sway. Not, as it seems you are implying, to just assume the frame can handle cantilevered weight.

And yes, ignorance can get people in trouble. This is why I try to educate people instead of making blanket statements. Or, if a blanket statement is made explaining why.

[dedobias]

It can do Both, damage the frame and potentially increase sway if the pin weight and loading is not taken into consideration. At 65 MPH the load on the back of the trailer in the video is certainly a serious factor in the accident. Again, people doing things when they don't have the necessary knowledge or experience to make the proper decision - assuming they will be OK. The further back the weight is the more unbalanced the load becomes - simple physics and yes it will be seen in the pin weight and if compensated for may exceed the maximum capacity of the trailer and cargo capacity of the TV.

Next up will be a sticker that says do not put more than X pounds behind the axles. They already void the warranty for putting a load on the bumper of many trailers but people ignore that as well believing it's just ass covering. The simple sway model shows the effect. Same weight in front of the axles then unevenly moved behind the axle. The further the weight is behind the axle, the less the pin weight becomes and the sway goes up exponentially. Can it be counterbalanced? Only within the maximum weight of the trailer and cargo capacity of the TV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9Dgxe584Ss

[dedobias]

Here is a good one. A 350 lb minimum hot tub that attaches hung off a 2" trailer hitch receiver mounted to the bumper. About 4 ' long. Anyone think this is a good idea even empty?

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by CustomBuild

I've just read dozens of posts on the subject of mounting a hitch or carrier on a travel trailer rear bumper. In general it looks to me like I'm going to need to review my options for mounting something directly to the frame of my 22RBHL.

One point of concern though is the common mention of "it will void the frame warranty". So I'm wondering just how often the frames fail, especially the hyper lite's which are supposed to be weaker frames to start with?

I have close to zero regard for Forest River warranty. But now I'm wondering is my frame going to fail and if so in what way? Might the wheels drop off? Will the cross members fail at their weld joints? What are the chances of the drawbar tearing from the frame? Do the frames really fail or is it mythical?

Why do Forest River warranty the frame and highlight the warranty will be voided if anything is added to the rear bumper?

Right now I'm thinking about extending the I beams on both sides and installing a new bar (maybe an I beam) from side to side with the objective of safely supporting 300 lbs approximately 18" from the rear of the trailer. If I go ahead with that idea, I think I may as well remove the 4" bumper bar unless that would be best left intact for insurance or any regulatory requirements.

Does anyone have experience of frame failure or warranty issues and/or knowledge of any legal aspect relating to the factory bumper bar?

it will not void your warranty . if the frame cracks where you mount your rack or it can be proven the rack caused any damage then that may not be covered . but warranty is not voided say you have an issue else where it would have to be proven any added rack caused the issue . just the fact that it is there will not void your warranty . check out

mugensun -ferguson act . spelling may not be correct .

[pitzhauler]

Originally Posted by dedobias

X2 - that kind of overload cantilevered off the back is a recipe for severe sway. Don't do it.
Watch as this guy goes by the truck - exactly what you are thinking of doing.
https://youtu.be/siVH_cr5ZnE

https://www.doityourselfrv.com/speed...r-wreck-video/

[Danielbarnes76]

I just had to spend a total of $10,250 to repair the frame on my Forest River Grey Wolf. Luckily my insurance covered $7600 of it- but long story short- the frames that Forest River orders are garbage. They are the absolute minimum requirement, just so Forest River can make a few more dollars of profit on each trailer.
Word of advice- take your trailer to a welder and have them reinforce it.