Incorrect inadequate axle on my Salem Platinum

[jrollf]

Originally Posted by FrankG

It's hard to find any differences between a 3,500 lb axle and a 4,400 lb axle except the sticker and possibly the hub/drum, going from 5 to 6 wheel studs.

Both use the same 10 x 2 1/4" brakes and the same bearings. That being said you have to go to a 5K axle with appropriate tires and rims to achieve any real gains in performance.



Be thankful if you have "Dexter" Axles, I have no good words for the other off shore junk.



I have a 2021 Surveyor with a 4,400 lb axle and all brake parts and hubs need replacing after one year and 8,500 miles. 3,500 lb parts are easy to find and low cost and will fit. The same parts labeled for 4,400 lb axles are harder to find and about double in price, True Dexter parts are available at a premium price.

Suposidly the metal tube of the 4,400lb axle has slightly thicker walls... but I've not been able to verify it.

Southwest wheel, where I got my axle's from, don't even list a 4,400 lb axle, goes from 3,500 lb to 5,200lb. Of course jumping to 5,200lb means new rims (more lugs) and tires.

[frozen]

I've owned 3 Forest River trailers; 1 travel trailer and 2 5th wheels. We enjoyed them all and were pleased with general quality, but my opinion was that axles on all 3 were marginal. I had three wheel bearing failures, bent spindles, and alignment issues. FR paid to replace axles on two of them but refused to upgrade. After spindle issues on the last trailer shortly after we bought it, I paid to replace the 4000 lb. axles with 5200s. No more problems. A side benefit was that we ordered axles with a steeper "down-angle" (torsion axles) that added a little height to the 5th wheel for a more level profile behind my truck.

[jrollf]

Originally Posted by frozen

I've owned 3 Forest River trailers; 1 travel trailer and 2 5th wheels. We enjoyed them all and were pleased with general quality, but my opinion was that axles on all 3 were marginal. I had three wheel bearing failures, bent spindles, and alignment issues. FR paid to replace axles on two of them but refused to upgrade. After spindle issues on the last trailer shortly after we bought it, I paid to replace the 4000 lb. axles with 5200s. No more problems. A side benefit was that we ordered axles with a steeper "down-angle" (torsion axles) that added a little height to the 5th wheel for a more level profile behind my truck.

Similar story, the 3,500lb axles seemed marginal on my TT. I bent my front axle when I cut a corner a bit to sharp (my fault) and there was a deep pot hole right at the curb, tire bumped the curb and dropped into the pot hole. After I got out of the pot hole you could see the tire now leaned in (out at the bottom, in on top) due to the now bent axle, which is opposite of what a curb strike should have done (pushed in the bottom).

I upgraded for the durability not to increase payload / GVWR.

[itat]

IreneD, at 9:24 in this video it shows, as you’ve said, the GAWR is 4400# on the single axle. It also indicates a “dry weight” of 3956#.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M-p1DeB4KU4

Check your white sticker on the front drivers side of the trailer. If it says 4400# and they installed a 3500# axle then you need to take it up with the dealer and complain respectfully that the factory did not install the right axle and it needs to be replaced with the proper axle. This is a black and white issue.

I would suggest you also investigate the tires to make sure that at full inflation pressure they can handle the weight you have on them. The factory is permitted to swap out parts as needed but they should provide the axle capacity on the sticker.

Please let us know your progress in dealing with this.

[Asrabbit]

My weights were very close to what you have. My trailer came with a 3500# axle and it would not carry the weight, (with nothing loaded in the trailer). I had tire wear issues on drivers side because the axle would flatten out on that side. The axle was not bent. I put a 4400# axle on and all is well. The dealer originally swapped out the first axle for another 3500# and that did nothing. I talked to Lippert and they were kind enough to give me the 4400# axle and the hardware needed to go to the 3" tube. Brakes state the same. I installed the axle myself and have never had an issue with it. I also put on new 4000# springs. No tire wear at all and that was 5 years ago.

[raytwntrvlr]

Had a Flagstaff Super Vee for 6 years and always felt the axle/wheel combo was undersized according to the weight labels.
Never had an issue but had my concerns, for sure.
Downsized last year to a smaller Winnebago weighing 3750 lbs loaded.
It has Two 3000 lb. axles and 15 inch wheels.
I could virtually carry a ton of gear in this TT without being overloaded.
I appreciate the margin of safety.
Like they say... better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by raytwntrvlr

Had a Flagstaff Super Vee for 6 years and always felt the axle/wheel combo was undersized according to the weight labels.
Never had an issue but had my concerns, for sure.
Downsized last year to a smaller Winnebago weighing 3750 lbs loaded.
It has Two 3000 lb. axles and 15 inch wheels.
I could virtually carry a ton of gear in this TT without being overloaded.
I appreciate the margin of safety.
Like they say... better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

Your trailer is always overloaded when you have exceeded the certified GVWR with cargo..Etc..

The Following quote is from a NHTSA FAQ document.

"The FMVSS have requirements for the manufacturer to use proper tires and rims for the gross axle weight rating (GAWR) and the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR). The manufacturer may determine the GVWR by adding cargo capacity (if any) to the curb weight of the vehicle as manufactured. The wise consumer, before purchase, will determine if the vehicle has sufficient cargo capacity to carry the weight of water, additional equipment (such as televisions, and microwave ovens), and luggage. The manufacturer’s certification label must show the GVWR. The GVWR must not be exceeded by overloading the vehicle. There is little the government can do to assist a consumer who has purchased a vehicle that has insufficient cargo capacity for its intended use."

[dmctlc]

Originally Posted by Irene D

Actually, have weighed it at CAT scales twice, and they confirm that I cannot utilize the 545 CCC (150 lbs of which is taken up by a heavier good quality mattress, which is part of the Platinum package). Sticker says UVW is 3074, CCC is 545 (total: 3619); Build sheet says Platinum package adds 150 lbs., so if put the full 545 lbs. in the RV, I am at 3769.
Sticker says GAWR is 3500 lbs. Brochure says 4400 lbs.

The brochure for the Platinum package says CCC is 1731 (a substantial difference).

CAT scale with barely anything in the RV and only a half tank of water - says 3720 lbs. so I had to put my clothes and tool chest in my tow vehicle so I wouldn't be over the axle capacity.

So just my two cents but there's several good points here but now that you've weighed it, though, twice is better, I'd call FR and tell them your concern. Yes, in this time of shortages, in the RV and many industries, substitutes are becoming the norm. The industries take full advantage of that fine print most people never read in those purchase and sales contract. But by no means should they substitute something that is below what they have certified and posted on the unit, IMO...another point I would think that if this was underrated the NHSTA could come knocking.

[JRHERE]

You might contact Dexter and verify exactly what axle you have.
The axle assembly GVW is determined by the axle, spring rating, hubs and bearings, wheels and tires. To some lessor degree, brakes. Axles are vendored as assemblies.
Your axle might be identical to a 4k plus axle. You could maybe modify spring rates and improve wheel and tires.
I went thru a similar experience with a 31V toy hauler. Flattened the two curb side springs, destroyed a tire and rim. Axle U-bolts hammering the frame (found one U-bolt finger tight).
"Unsafe at any speed" came to mind.
I went from 15" wheels and tires to 16" wheels and GY Endurance tires. Changed from 5k springs to 6k per axle. No bent axles (yet), and observed that my OEM hubs, bearings, spindles and brakes are used on up to 7k, 6 lug axles. So comfortable for now.
I'm aware that the trailer GVRW has not been increased. My problem is with a toy hauler, the1000 lb "toy" removes tongue weight and overloads the trailer axles. Note that any accessories (your Platinum mattress?) such as the Happijac system and generator are referenced as optional and become part of the payload numbers. This is insane.
Anyway, the changes made the trailer much more stable. Far less tail sway. Also removed the garage Happijac overhead queen bed....250 lbs 7' off the garage floor at the aft end of the trailer.
Your tires and wheels might be good enough. Going up to the next spring rating isn't expensive at all at about $70 bucks per spring. Wheels and tires are another thing...still, if you have room, and you have Chinese tires, there's a bit of safety margin to be had. Assuming 5 lug wheels? Installing 6 lug and quality wheels and tires will add considerably to your safety margin also. Or high quality tires on your existing rims.
I found that spring hangers, rockers (you don't have) and fasteners were all used on similar plus 2k axles.
You're after only a small percentage of weight safety margin. Check on your axle application. Don't mention altering GVRW. Just verify. Manufacturers are reticent to offer any advice that could be applied to create unsafe operation. You can research your axle assembly for bearings, hubs, and brakes in order to verify what weight axles they interchange with. Might be surprising...also might not?
If a DIY, you can seriously improve the margin of safety on your trailer inexpensively.
New springs really worked out well. No open cabs or drawers as was typical. The axle U-bolts were bottoming out on the frame. Also cured a curb side 'list'...all good so far. Our first trip went well. Off to see some rain this week! Always rains at Denton Bluegrass Festival!
Good luck!

[itat]

JRHERE, if you put on beefier springs but didn’t change the axles that support that weight then you would be doing the opposite of what the OP wants, that being to use heavier axles (assuming they are correct that the trailer is supposed to have 4400# axles rather than 3500#). You would be adding weight onto the original axles.

Have I misread your post?

[Airdale]

Understanding RV trailer GAWR.

The axle manufacturer's certifications on RV trailer axles are provided by the axle manufacturer. The axle manufacturer's certification is only good for the axles. The official limit for all RV trailer axles, weather they are OEM or replacements will be the same as what is on the federal certification label. Trailer manufacturers have the authority to set GAWRs that are appropriate for their fitment to the trailers they build. RV Trailer manufacturers have always set certified GAWR axel weights to meet the trailer's GVWR. To provide load capacity reserves with them invites vehicle overloading and the manufacthrers will almost always shy away from doing that.

[Flybob]

What does your build sheet say?

[JRHERE]

Left out "not."
That should've read "you will not be adding" weight to the OEM axle. Springs with a small rate increase won't add weight.
The manufacturer sold the unit with the the axle. Perhaps OP can talk them into a replacement?
My point is that you often find identical axles with various capacities. The suggestion was to verify exactly what the "3500" lb axle interchanges with...if anything?
The axles are rated as assemblies. The goal is to ID exactly what components comprise the assembly. His axle may well be adequate.
A 4400 lb axle is not expensive. I would swap it out if concerned. That said, if the axle is, as it appears to be, underrated, pursue the manufacturer.
I had similar issues. Brochure indicated 235/16 tires on my unit. Came with 15". Serious tire failure was the result. Tires, wheels and springs doesn't "add" payload capacity. But it does add peace of mind and additional safety margins. Same with the springs.

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by Flybob

What does your build sheet say?

The build sheet does not have to match-up with vehicle certification. Therefor, it may differ from the final certification upon dealer delivery.

[itat]

As I said in post #24, if the manufacturer placed a sticker that says the GAWR for the single axle is 4400#, then that’s what they should have installed. They can substitute any manufacturer’s axle but it needs to be at least 4400# rated. If they advertise a 4400# axle and decided to change to a 3500# axle, thereby reducing the cargo carrying capacity, I’d have a serious issue with that.

[BrianSF-GA]

Our 2016 Work & Play 25ULA had tandem 4,400# axles and the printed specs called for 5,200# axles. Five years from new we broke a leaf spring and the RV shop argued with Forest River stating they built an unsafe unit and they were lucky we did not have an incident with the broken leaf spring. Forest River sent them tandem 5,200# complete axles and covered the installation labor.

11,853# GVWR
-8,800# axle rating
-1,700# tongue weight

1,353# underrated