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Old 11-13-2018, 11:00 AM   #1
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Is my trailer to heavy for my wheels.

I have a 2016 251 Surveyor rks that I bought new in Jan 2017. I had a tire blow out in August of 2018 which caused $12,000 in damage. The TT has been repaired good as new, however because of the blowout I started to look at the specs of the tires and wheels on my trailer. The aluminum wheel is a Lionshead product, 15/5 Bearcat and is rated for 1820 lbs. That would be a max of 7200 lbs. The Tires were Ridgway ST 225/75 15, 107/102 L, which comes out to 2149/1874 lbs. This has me confused as which # is it. The high # is ok, but not the low #. My trailer fully loaded canít be over 7,730 lbs. That makes the wheel below the max I can carry, also the lower # on the tire. I had my trailer and truck weighed, with all the stuff I take minus food, it weighed 6900 lbs. Dry weight of my trailer is 5800 and I can put another 1930 lbs in it making it 7,730. I emailed Kathrine Ebbole and she says the tires and wheels are just fine for that trailer, but she didnít give me any facts or numbers. I talked to Lionhead tech rep, and they said the wheel is matched to the axel, so if the axels is rated at 3600 x 2 itís 7200. What am I missing here, I think my trailer is to heavy for the wheels and tires that are on it.
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Old 11-13-2018, 11:05 AM   #2
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I didn't try to comprehend all your numbers... but I will say your axles, wheels, tires don't carry all the trailer's weight. A significant portion is carried by your truck/hitch/tongue.
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Old 11-13-2018, 11:17 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by dcummins56 View Post
I have a 2016 251 Surveyor rks that I bought new in Jan 2017. I had a tire blow out in August of 2018 which caused $12,000 in damage. The TT has been repaired good as new, however because of the blowout I started to look at the specs of the tires and wheels on my trailer. The aluminum wheel is a Lionshead product, 15/5 Bearcat and is rated for 1820 lbs. That would be a max of 7200 lbs. The Tires were Ridgway ST 225/75 15, 107/102 L, which comes out to 2149/1874 lbs. This has me confused as which # is it. The high # is ok, but not the low #. My trailer fully loaded canít be over 7,730 lbs. That makes the wheel below the max I can carry, also the lower # on the tire. I had my trailer and truck weighed, with all the stuff I take minus food, it weighed 6900 lbs. Dry weight of my trailer is 5800 and I can put another 1930 lbs in it making it 7,730. I emailed Kathrine Ebbole and she says the tires and wheels are just fine for that trailer, but she didnít give me any facts or numbers. I talked to Lionhead tech rep, and they said the wheel is matched to the axel, so if the axels is rated at 3600 x 2 itís 7200. What am I missing here, I think my trailer is to heavy for the wheels and tires that are on it.
Of course FR will say it's all ok . It's not you're maxed out with a full load imo not enough extra load cushion . even though the TW will carry a part of that when you're pulling down the road there are times the TT wheels and tires carry not only the full load but more depending on road conditions
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Old 11-13-2018, 11:28 AM   #4
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Is my trailer to heavy for my wheels.

@ Mr Dan, my tongue weight is 750 lbs, are you saying that I can take that number off the max of 7700 lbs?
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Old 11-13-2018, 11:43 AM   #5
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Yes, your GTWR includes the tongue weight (TW).
Was your measured weight just the trailer or when attached to the TV, just the TT axle weights?
In my case, I have a single 3.5K axle on a TT with a GTWR of 3877#. The TW carries the overage from the TT axle. As does the tongue jack when disconnected.
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Old 11-13-2018, 11:54 AM   #6
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Is my trailer to heavy for my wheels.

Ok I got it, thanks.
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Old 11-13-2018, 11:55 AM   #7
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The two different tire load ratings are for single and dual use. The load rating for single wheel applications is 107 for those tires so they'll handle 2149 lbs, however, if you mounted them on dual wheels you would have to reduce the load rating to 102 which is the 1874 lbs.

To make it simple, your tires are rated for 2149 lbs each.
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Old 11-13-2018, 12:37 PM   #8
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Just my personal view based on the reading I've done. I want my tires to be rated to carry at least 120% of the GTWR of my trailer.
It seems to me that many people who have reported problems may have been using tires that were carrying nearly, if not more than the GTWR. I suspect those over the GTWR had tires that could carry 100% of GTWR - TW.

I have not formed an opinion on how close the axle rating needs to be to the GTWR and how TW should be factored into the axle rating. I haven't seen a lot of axle failure reports, and some that I read were caused by improper jacking.

Reading the postings of tire experts, blowouts occur due to a number of factors. Various injuries to the tires caused by tight turns, curbs, pot-holes, etc. are cumulative. The actual failure can occur quite some time after an injury occurs.

Interesting that the Lionshead web site on your tire size now lists the tire as load range D - 2540 lbs max.
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Old 11-13-2018, 01:36 PM   #9
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Forest River and Surveyor uses the "good-enough" spec to build their trailers and then uses the "customer is guilty until proven innocent" strategy to eek out of warranty responsibility. This was proven when my spring hanger separated from the chassis and Katherine Ebbole told me I caused it when I caked into something; however, after sending pictures to Lippert they took on full responsibility for garbage craftsmanship and paid for a $6,500 repair to my trailer.

The trailers are built with minimal parts to work at 100% capacity but not much over that.

Looking at the specs on my Surveyor 247BHDS:
GVW = 7,581
Axles = 3,500 x 2 = 7,000 lbs
Wheels = 1,820 x 4 = 7,280 lbs
D rated Tires = 2,540 x 4 = 10,160 lbs

As others have said, the tongue will bear some of the total weight of the trailer. And, if properly set between 10 - 15%, there is really no instance where the axle would carry 100% of the trailer weight and leave the tongue with 0% weight.

The last scale weight of my trailer:
Trailer = 7,080 loaded
Tongue weight = 800
Axle weight = 6,500

Knowing that 7,080 - 800 = 6,280, the WDH pushes more weight back on the trailer axles, increasing the axle weight to 6,500.

These numbers are still within the maximum ratings but damn close!
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Old 11-13-2018, 03:52 PM   #10
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...or you could've just had a bad tire.


I purchased my trailer brand new in 2013. On the first road trip it blew a tire. The sidewall completely shredded.



I have since replaced the tires with no further problems.
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Old 11-13-2018, 05:58 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcummins56 View Post
I have a 2016 251 Surveyor rks that I bought new in Jan 2017. I had a tire blow out in August of 2018 which caused $12,000 in damage. The TT has been repaired good as new, however because of the blowout I started to look at the specs of the tires and wheels on my trailer. The aluminum wheel is a Lionshead product, 15/5 Bearcat and is rated for 1820 lbs. That would be a max of 7200 lbs. The Tires were Ridgway ST 225/75 15, 107/102 L, which comes out to 2149/1874 lbs. This has me confused as which # is it. The high # is ok, but not the low #. My trailer fully loaded canít be over 7,730 lbs. That makes the wheel below the max I can carry, also the lower # on the tire. I had my trailer and truck weighed, with all the stuff I take minus food, it weighed 6900 lbs. Dry weight of my trailer is 5800 and I can put another 1930 lbs in it making it 7,730. I emailed Kathrine Ebbole and she says the tires and wheels are just fine for that trailer, but she didnít give me any facts or numbers. I talked to Lionhead tech rep, and they said the wheel is matched to the axel, so if the axels is rated at 3600 x 2 itís 7200. What am I missing here, I think my trailer is to heavy for the wheels and tires that are on it.
Iím going to tailor this response to your needs. My answers are going be from established regulations and standards.

Your trailer has a federal certification label. They cannot sell it without an attached certification label. Itís located externally on the forward left side of the trailer forward of the wheels. It may also be accompanied by a tire/load information label.

The vehicle manufacturer has sworn on the certification label that the trailer meets all safety standards on the date of sale. Therefore, the information on the label is correct and meets minimum standards.

The certification label will depict the trailerís Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (7768) GVWR. The Gross Axle Weight Rating (3500#) for each axle. The Original Equipment (OE) tire size (ST225/75R15D), and the recommended cold inflation pressures for those tires (65 PSI).

Not shown on the certification label is the vehicle manufacturerís recommended tongue weight (768#). Itís a mandatory weight figure the vehicle manufacturer must publish. I found it in the trailerís specs.

The trailer builder is building to a computer model and will use a ballpark GVWR to build to which will be determined by FMVSS standards. In this case the GVWR was set at 7768#. The installed GAWR axles must provide a combined load capacity not less than GVWR. In this case two 3500# axles. That number was set when the recommended tongue weight was deducted from the GVWR. (The standard for that goes like this; The manufacturerís recommended tongue weight, when added to the total GAWR weights must not be less than GVWR).

Wheels are not required to carry anything more than the GAWR weight. Tires are not required to carry anything more than each axles GAWR. Anything above the minimum is considered load capacity reserves. Your tires have more than adequate load capacity reserves.

Lengthy but accurate.

Note: Service descriptions (107/102) are not the official load indicator for ST or LT tires. They must comply with the load range lettering method. However, the service descriptions are allowed on ST/LT tires primarily to display the tire's speed restriction. In this instance 107/102 L describes a tire with a speed letter "L" = 75 MPH. The first number - 107 - in the service description is for tires used in single operation. The second - 102 - is when the tire is used in a dual configuration such as on the rear axle of a dually truck.
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Old 11-14-2018, 04:50 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcummins56 View Post
I have a 2016 251 Surveyor rks that I bought new in Jan 2017. I had a tire blow out in August of 2018 which caused $12,000 in damage. The TT has been repaired good as new, however because of the blowout I started to look at the specs of the tires and wheels on my trailer. The aluminum wheel is a Lionshead product, 15/5 Bearcat and is rated for 1820 lbs. That would be a max of 7200 lbs. The Tires were Ridgway ST 225/75 15, 107/102 L, which comes out to 2149/1874 lbs. This has me confused as which # is it. The high # is ok, but not the low #. My trailer fully loaded can’t be over 7,730 lbs. That makes the wheel below the max I can carry, also the lower # on the tire. I had my trailer and truck weighed, with all the stuff I take minus food, it weighed 6900 lbs. Dry weight of my trailer is 5800 and I can put another 1930 lbs in it making it 7,730. I emailed Kathrine Ebbole and she says the tires and wheels are just fine for that trailer, but she didn’t give me any facts or numbers. I talked to Lionhead tech rep, and they said the wheel is matched to the axel, so if the axels is rated at 3600 x 2 it’s 7200. What am I missing here, I think my trailer is to heavy for the wheels and tires that are on it.
IF you want to know the weight your wheels/tires aer carrying you need to go to a CAT scale.

Load the camper and truck just as if you aer going camping, full of fuel, water, supplies, wife, kids, EVERYTHING.

Weigh your truck camper together. They will give you a weight for each axle of ur truck and the axles on ur camper will be combined.

Then, at the site (but NOT ON the scale itself), drop the camper and "reweigh" your truck, without the camper. You will get the weight of each axle.

Now, subtract the weights of truck axles from the Reweigh from the first and you will have the amount of weight you have on the tongue of ur camper.

Add that to the weight of ur camper axles and you will have the total weight of ur camper, loaded and ready to go. You will also know precisely how much weight is on your axles, wheels and tires.

This isn't expensive, I think $15 for the initial and an additional $2 for the reweigh.
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Old 11-14-2018, 07:13 AM   #13
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The high loadindex is for single load, so 2 tires on the axle, and the lower loadindex/ maxload is for dual-load so 4 tires on the axle.
So if trailer is tandemaxle no problem ( 2 axles , total 4 wheels).
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Old 11-14-2018, 10:48 PM   #14
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Let's use your weight, 6,900lbs, and assume your tongue weight at 12%, so your axles are carrying only 6,072lbs, divided by four equals 1,518lbs each, well under your wheel's 1,820lb rating, and tire rating of 1,884lbs. (The higher no., I believe, is when the tire is in a dually application.)

It appears to me, if your total weight stays close to 6,900lbs, and your tongue weight is between 11-13%, your wheels and tires are adequate, and the blowout was an anomaly. I don't know if Ridgeway tires are considered China bombs. If you're still uncomfortable, you could upgrade your tires from LR D to LR E. Lastly, the difference between 7,730lbs and axle ratings of 7,200lbs is your hitch weight, so again, it appears you are okay.
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