Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-13-2019, 11:08 AM   #21
Member
 
keegantimber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 73
Maybe its just the angle of the pic?? That drum doesnt look correct? I always thought the magnet rides on a flat surface on the drum. Is there a flat surface there?
keegantimber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 11:10 AM   #22
Member
 
keegantimber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 73
Your cutaway drum looks the same??? But?? I thought my magnets applied to a flat surface on inside of drum
keegantimber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 11:38 AM   #23
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Posts: 7,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by keegantimber View Post
Maybe its just the angle of the pic?? That drum doesnt look correct? I always thought the magnet rides on a flat surface on the drum. Is there a flat surface there?
Post #19
babock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 12:15 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,285
Quote:
Originally Posted by babock View Post
You do have the assemblies on the correct side of the trailer? There is a right and a left. Sorry...I just had to ask.
Not just on the proper side but are the shoes in the proper position. The magnet lever can be in the correct position but shoes can be reversed in their position.

Drum brakes as a rule use shoes with two different lining compositions and different amounts of lining on the Primary and Secondary shoes. The Primary shoe needs more "grip" and the secondary shoe needs more "durability" as it is the shoe that is doing most of the work.

The Primary shoe is the one that is mounted closest to the front of the vehicle. Left side when looking at brake shoes on backing plate for Left side, Right for Right.

When the brakes are applied by the actuator cam (or wheel cylinder in hydraulic brakes) the primary shoe is supposed to grip the drum and then apply force at the bottom of the secondary shoe. This is known as the "Bendix Dual Servo System" and has survived since 1939 when first introduced.

Here's an explanation that gives one the basics, only difference between hydraulic and electric being that the actuator cam functions as both actuator and anchor at the top.

If your shoes have different length linings, front to rear, make sure the shorter ones are at the front. A very common mistake made by many mechanics. With electric brakes where its' common to install complete assemblies on backing plates it can be as simple as getting the units on the wrong side.


Disc brakes are an entirely different animal. Unlike drum brakes they are not "self energizing" like the Bendix system. They require larger pistons in the caliper (sometimes more than two) and higher pressures from the master cylinder. Because you can't activate them with a magnet, an electric/hydraulic system needs to be added.
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will." (Japanese Proverb)

"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"

2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2023 f-150 SCREW XLT 3.5 Ecoboost (The result of a $68,000 oil change)
TitanMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 12:36 PM   #25
Member
 
keegantimber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 73
Those magnets are not getting enough surface contact to the drum which in turn will not expand the shoe assembly sufficient for braking. If Im looking at the pic correctly the magnet will fall close to that rough casting area around the outside of the drum. The only drag that magnet is picking up is on the top and bottom edges. Yes...as viewed in post 19
keegantimber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 12:41 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom39 View Post
I have actually tried a battery to the brakes a few time. The last go round (last night) I tried hooking straight to a battery at the wheels and then at the 5th wheel head.

The amperage at the magnets are 3.2 at each wheel.

Do this battery hook-up again and rotate the wheel. You may have to put om a tire/wheel with a couple of lug nuts. A small amount of rotation should lock the brake at that wheel.

Also, verify yhe magnet arm is getting sufficient swing to actuate the cam for the shoes.
__________________
2018 Surveyor 264RKLE
Retired
Location depends on weather and state plandemic rules.
Most coincidences are carefully planned
Jeffjeeptj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 12:48 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
tom39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 425
Babock, When I pulled the drums this morning I dbl checked that.

Thank you.
__________________
2013 Rockwood Freedom2381G
2011 Dodge Ram 3500 Laramie 6.7L
B&W Turnover Ball w/Companion Hitch
tom39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 12:49 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,285
Quote:
Originally Posted by keegantimber View Post
Those magnets are not getting enough surface contact to the drum which in turn will not expand the shoe assembly sufficient for braking. If Im looking at the pic correctly the magnet will fall close to that rough casting area around the outside of the drum. The only drag that magnet is picking up is on the top and bottom edges. Yes...as viewed in post 19
True, the magnet surface of the drum looks terrible but even so, with the "self energizing" aspect of this brake design the OP should still have better braking than he describes.

If it were my TT I' have replaced the drums at the same time. IF he could find a shop capable of resurfacing the magnet surface along with the usual surface the shoes ride on, the cost would be half the price of new drums and there might be excessive distance after resurfacing to the magnet. Unfortunately electric trailer brakes are often repaired best by replacement of backing plate assembly AND drums at same time.

Depending on type of axle a tandem axle set of brakes (with drums) will run between $200 and $300 which coincidently can be about the same as just one end of a Tow vehicle's brake "reline".
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will." (Japanese Proverb)

"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"

2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2023 f-150 SCREW XLT 3.5 Ecoboost (The result of a $68,000 oil change)
TitanMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 12:54 PM   #29
Senior Member
 
tom39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 425
Quote:
Originally Posted by keegantimber View Post
Your cutaway drum looks the same??? But?? I thought my magnets applied to a flat surface on inside of drum
Yes, the surface should be flat. The new drums do have a flat surface. The surface of the cutaway drum is the old drum and the surface was rippled. I replaced the drums because of the worn surface. I made the cutaway drum to try and see if the magnet was actually close enough to make the connection.
__________________
2013 Rockwood Freedom2381G
2011 Dodge Ram 3500 Laramie 6.7L
B&W Turnover Ball w/Companion Hitch
tom39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 12:56 PM   #30
Senior Member
 
tom39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 425
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanMike View Post
True, the magnet surface of the drum looks terrible but even so, with the "self energizing" aspect of this brake design the OP should still have better braking than he describes.

If it were my TT I' have replaced the drums at the same time. IF he could find a shop capable of resurfacing the magnet surface along with the usual surface the shoes ride on, the cost would be half the price of new drums and there might be excessive distance after resurfacing to the magnet. Unfortunately electric trailer brakes are often repaired best by replacement of backing plate assembly AND drums at same time.

Depending on type of axle a tandem axle set of brakes (with drums) will run between $200 and $300 which coincidently can be about the same as just one end of a Tow vehicle's brake "reline".
You have your pricing spot on. [emoji106] The new drums I purchased coat $326 for 4 drums, bearing set and seal.
__________________
2013 Rockwood Freedom2381G
2011 Dodge Ram 3500 Laramie 6.7L
B&W Turnover Ball w/Companion Hitch
tom39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 01:00 PM   #31
Senior Member
 
tom39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffjeeptj View Post
Do this battery hook-up again and rotate the wheel. You may have to put om a tire/wheel with a couple of lug nuts. A small amount of rotation should lock the brake at that wheel.

Also, verify yhe magnet arm is getting sufficient swing to actuate the cam for the shoes.
Just got done trying that. I insured that the arm was swinging free. Then I adjusted the brakes to lock-up and backed off 10 clicks. Going to now make a trial run.
__________________
2013 Rockwood Freedom2381G
2011 Dodge Ram 3500 Laramie 6.7L
B&W Turnover Ball w/Companion Hitch
tom39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 01:12 PM   #32
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,285
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom39 View Post
You have your pricing spot on. [emoji106] The new drums I purchased coat $326 for 4 drums, bearing set and seal.
I kind of "SWAGGED" it after looking at e-trailer prices to see what I'm faced with when it's time for brakes on my rig.

For anyone reading this thread and remaining on the sidelines, should you need to purchase drums for your axles note that the hub/drums are different between EZ-Lube and Non EZ-Lube axles. Haven't confirmed it by actually comparing but it's highly likely that the "void" in the hub of the EZ-Lube style is much smaller than regular hubs due to their method of greasing the bearings. Only enough room to clear the spindle is required so one doesn't need to use a full tube of grease for each hub the first time and old grease is forced out sooner when re-greasing.

Also, when buying drums from e-Trailer you get new bearings, seal, hub cover, rubber plug (for EZ-Lube) and a new set of standard lug nuts.
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will." (Japanese Proverb)

"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"

2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2023 f-150 SCREW XLT 3.5 Ecoboost (The result of a $68,000 oil change)
TitanMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 01:33 PM   #33
Member
 
keegantimber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 73
Sorry...just trying to help. That rough casting area appears to be concave. IF it is and IF that area is supposed to be the magnet contact area the magnet will not make full contact which appears to be happening in your pic

I may be way off base. I say no more[emoji16]
keegantimber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 01:50 PM   #34
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Neosho WI
Posts: 72
Does your Dodge have trailer brake control in the dash? My Silverado does and by last year I was having trouble braking. I didn't know if it was a problem with the truck or the trailer so I asked the Chev dealer to look at it when I had an oil change. The switch in the truck was bad which they replaced. I will have to admit I haven't taken it out since then, however.
dsiegler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 01:58 PM   #35
Senior Member
 
tom39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 425
Quote:
Originally Posted by McKannick View Post
"Resecured and cleaned ground connection to trailer frame."
I'm guessing you were at the battery bank ground for this? Seems you've covered every possible thing except (unless you already did this) the ground for the actual brake hubs to the chassis? One quick way to check this is get your ohmmeter and go from a bare spot on a hub to the chassis. ANY resistance will contribute to this issue.
I had checked the resistance prior and it showed that the connection was clean without resistance. However, the connection is a ring connector on a piece of wire that is held to the frame of the trailer with a self-tapping screw.
My next step is to redo that and use a ground lug to secure the wire and then affix the lug to the trailer by drilling and tapping the frame steel and using a 1/4" bolt to secure the lug.

Thanks you for your help.
Tom
__________________
2013 Rockwood Freedom2381G
2011 Dodge Ram 3500 Laramie 6.7L
B&W Turnover Ball w/Companion Hitch
tom39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 02:02 PM   #36
Senior Member
 
tom39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 425
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsiegler View Post
Does your Dodge have trailer brake control in the dash? My Silverado does and by last year I was having trouble braking. I didn't know if it was a problem with the truck or the trailer so I asked the Chev dealer to look at it when I had an oil change. The switch in the truck was bad which they replaced. I will have to admit I haven't taken it out since then, however.
Yeah the controller is integrated into the truck. In an effort to eliminate that possibility, I hooked the ruck to my 14k# dump trailer and loaded a tractor in the trailer and took it for a test. The truck brake controller work with that trailer and that helped me eliminate the truck as a possibility.
__________________
2013 Rockwood Freedom2381G
2011 Dodge Ram 3500 Laramie 6.7L
B&W Turnover Ball w/Companion Hitch
tom39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 02:08 PM   #37
Senior Member
 
tom39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 425
Quote:
Originally Posted by keegantimber View Post
Sorry...just trying to help. That rough casting area appears to be concave. IF it is and IF that area is supposed to be the magnet contact area the magnet will not make full contact which appears to be happening in your pic

I may be way off base. I say no more[emoji16]
Absolutely no reason to apologize. I truly appreciate that you are willing to take the time to consider my issue and then offer suggestions. Members like you that display a willingness to lend a hand when someone is in need are why this forum is awesome.

Thank you,
__________________
2013 Rockwood Freedom2381G
2011 Dodge Ram 3500 Laramie 6.7L
B&W Turnover Ball w/Companion Hitch
tom39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 02:14 PM   #38
Senior Member
 
tom39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 425
Quote:
Originally Posted by babock View Post
Since you put on new brake shoes, did you burnish the brakes? When I first bought my trailer, the brakes didn't work great so I went through the procedure of burnishing the brakes. Go around 25MPH and use your manual lever and get the trailer to come to a complete stop. Don't use the vehicle brakes. Do this around 5 times letting the brakes have a time to cool in between. Should help a lot.


When you rewired your brakes, did you still daisy chain or did you do homeruns to the front of the trailer?


EDIT: your last few posts while was creating mine showed you have 3A at each wheel. That is a good number.
I am getting ready to give that a try and burnish the brake in just a few. Should have everything buttoned back shortly up so I can make another test run.
At the moment, I stopped for lunch and taking a break from the heat and also catching up on suggestions members have shared.

Been reading a bit on etrailer and they are suggesting that it may take a few cycles of speeds up to 40mph and coming to a full stop before the brakes settle in. But at this point I am willing to try anything.

Thank you
__________________
2013 Rockwood Freedom2381G
2011 Dodge Ram 3500 Laramie 6.7L
B&W Turnover Ball w/Companion Hitch
tom39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 02:20 PM   #39
Senior Member
 
tom39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 425
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanMike View Post
Not just on the proper side but are the shoes in the proper position. The magnet lever can be in the correct position but shoes can be reversed in their position.

If your shoes have different length linings, front to rear, make sure the shorter ones are at the front. A very common mistake made by many mechanics. With electric brakes where its' common to install complete assemblies on backing plates it can be as simple as getting the units on the wrong side.
Thank you for your help with my issue. When I took the drums off this morning I was able to confirm that the smaller shoe is towards the front of the trailer and the longer shoe is towards the rear.

Thank you
Tom
__________________
2013 Rockwood Freedom2381G
2011 Dodge Ram 3500 Laramie 6.7L
B&W Turnover Ball w/Companion Hitch
tom39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 02:20 PM   #40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 414
When i posted about hooking up battery direct to each magnet wire, i forgot to include jacking up each wheel to be free of ground and seeing if arm power could rotate the assembly with full voltage applied. If rotatable, problem is with brake assembly/magnet. Iflocked, then wiring between truck connector and trailer brake assy.
First post written with 3 y.o. Grandson walking in door to visit the Grands. I got mauled first.
__________________
2018 Surveyor 264RKLE
Retired
Location depends on weather and state plandemic rules.
Most coincidences are carefully planned
Jeffjeeptj is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
brakes

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:15 PM.