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Old 07-11-2017, 08:58 PM   #41
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Hey Trees, appreciate your reply. Yup, pretty obvious I need to do some shifting. Problem is that there really isn't much storage in the back. All the cupboards back there have canned goods. Pots are under the couch. There are a few empty cupboards on the side and there are some games up front that I'll move back. There are some items in the front storage (chairs, grill, ladder) that we don't use so they'll be removed. Not to worry, understand moments. Planning on taking it on tomorrow morning and reweigh to see what I can get done.

Maybe I'm missing something but I'm not worried about the truck capacities. Yes, I'm ignoring the first situation carrying water and pretty much keying on the last run.

I've got some ideas of what can be done to appease the Boss when we are at that campsite. This is the only site where she has issues so we'll figure something out.

Again, thanks for your comments
Kirk
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Old 07-13-2017, 09:49 AM   #42
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Well, I have to admit that now I am TOTALLY confused. Looked at the trailer with an eye toward what I can either remove or relocate to the back. As a result I had probably 100# that was moved either just behind the rear axle or further back. Things remaining in the forward storage area are a 18" weber grill, 2 "yard" mats, a folding table and a camp stove. Under the bed are some board games and the wardrobe has some jackets and sheets but it isn't close to full. The mattress is a thicker custom one which is heavier than factory stock. I even emptied the water heater.

Here's where my confusion starts. I rechecked the setup of the hitch to make sure it was correct. Weighed the setup again and found that the rear axle weight increased from 2500# to 2640# and the tongue weight dropped to around 900#. Both of these are good. The bad is that the front axle DIDN'T CHANGE and is still at 3260#???? I even weighed it again to make sure (foolish but only $2).

Note that this trailer has the axles close together with maybe 4" between the tires. The places each tire very close to the scale pads and not sure if this is part of the problem. But not sure why it showed no change.

I'm sitting here thinking about how hard it would be to remove everything forward of the front axle and see what happens. Anyone have any great wisdom they can impart?
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Old 07-13-2017, 11:17 AM   #43
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I would look at the suspension. I think if you have weak springs in back axle the front will need to carry more weight. Wonder if someone used the trick to ramp up one axle for tire change? Could this have permanently weaken spring? Or how about the center pivot if it is rusted in position that forces more weight on front wheels? You could jack up trailer and put one side on stands with wheels off pavement. Utilize a fulcrum and your weight to push one wheel up a distance. Have someone measure the travel distance. Do both tires separately. Be sure to maintain dimensions of fulcrum pivot.
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Old 07-13-2017, 12:38 PM   #44
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Trees, thanks again for the reply. As a matter of fact, when roadside assist came out to change the tire they did use the ramp trick. From what I've read this is a very common trick so I have to wonder why this hasn't been reported before. Is there something somewhere that says this trick shouldn't be used? Also, if this were the case wouldn't it only impact that one side? If so I wouldn't think the weight distribution would be split evenly from side to side as mine is.

What is the center pivot of which you speak?

Kirk
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Old 07-13-2017, 01:07 PM   #45
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Good questions, I think you are correct, nevertheless anything can happen. Weak spring or susceptible to damage design. My trailer has both springs ends, that are closer to each other assembled to pivot.

It would be interesting to fully understand how the axles work together. Something more engineering like with examples of nonstandard conditions or weak components impact to the loads. It may be just the way you're weighing? There is a website of 5th wheeler adventures wherein he had a horrible tire problem and it all focused on tire loads. He now has a side business of a work camp/seminare and has single tire scales to check weight load on each tire, even the truck tires and all at the same time. He charges for the weigh in. 5Th wheels usually have the biggest problem with this. I do see you have slides. That was a warning flag for me as it appeared to me that manufacturers didn't upgrade components for the extra weight. Meaning they just down sized the load capacity and that in fact is just taking away your safety margin.
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Old 07-13-2017, 02:24 PM   #46
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I got it now. I think that I'm going to unload everything in the trailer forward of the axles and reweigh. I'm also wondering if having a wheel barely on the scale pad is causing a weird weigh. Think I'll weigh the trailer with both axles on one pad (haven't done this yet) and see if it equals the weight with axles on separate pads.

I've read a bit about the scale system you mentioned. Be nice but it sounds like you basically have to go to a rally somewhere to get it done.

Need to get this figured out. Not only to get tires replaced but I'm now concerned about the axle as I'm guessing it's only rated for 3000# and it's now sitting at 3260# assuming the weights I have are correct.

Guess one plus is that this investigation revealed that my existing WD hitch is overloaded. The boss wasn't happy to hear that there's another $500 or so to shell out but she agrees. It was a little hard to explain to her why I was going through all of this and not just buying tires with the same rating. I'm sure many would do that and be happy.

Kirk

BTW, would you happen to be an engineer? Not meant to be an insult but some of your comments are......
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Old 07-13-2017, 02:43 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by kirkp View Post
I got it now. I think that I'm going to unload everything in the trailer forward of the axles and reweigh. I'm also wondering if having a wheel barely on the scale pad is causing a weird weigh. Think I'll weigh the trailer with both axles on one pad (haven't done this yet) and see if it equals the weight with axles on separate pads.

I've read a bit about the scale system you mentioned. Be nice but it sounds like you basically have to go to a rally somewhere to get it done.

Need to get this figured out. Not only to get tires replaced but I'm now concerned about the axle as I'm guessing it's only rated for 3000# and it's now sitting at 3260# assuming the weights I have are correct.

Guess one plus is that this investigation revealed that my existing WD hitch is overloaded. The boss wasn't happy to hear that there's another $500 or so to shell out but she agrees. It was a little hard to explain to her why I was going through all of this and not just buying tires with the same rating. I'm sure many would do that and be happy.

Kirk

BTW, would you happen to be an engineer? Not meant to be an insult but some of your comments are......
Call and see what axels you have. There should be a sticker on the side of the camper telling you what they are rated at BUT at times manufacturers will lower the rating in order to justify a lower LR tire.
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Old 07-18-2017, 10:19 AM   #48
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Here's the latest on my dilemma.

I thought it was strange that I could move things around and weight on the front axle wouldn't change. It got me wondering if the front and rear axles were so close to the edge of the scale pad that it was weighing incorrectly. So, I weighed again with both axles centered on the pad. Guess what, it weighed within 20# of the sum of the individual axle weights.

My next move was to empty the trailer of everything from the rear axles forward and reweigh. The only non-factory items is the bike bunk on the tongue of the trailer (no bikes) and the upgraded mattress we installed in lieu of the uncomfortable original. Results were: 2500# on the rear axle and 3060# ON THE FRONT AXLE. The tongue weight did drop to 740#.
This makes absolutely no sense to me.

My wife keeps asking me if I'm doing things correctly and based on what I've read or been told I think I am. Anyone see any flaws in my procedures? Does anyone have any other ideas? I'm sure someone will mention and I have thought of removing everything from the back of the trailer. A daunting task to be sure.

A couple conclusions I have reached are (1) that I'm going to get a new WD hitch, most likely a 1200# Equilizer model and (2) that I'm most likely going to stay with LRC tires. My thought with this last is that I probably won't be at the 1500# that one would like, I don't know that I'm loaded to a point that I should go to LRD. Thoughts on my logic?

Thanks for your help
Kirk
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Old 07-18-2017, 11:23 AM   #49
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Yes, Engineer. I have a good reputation on trouble shooting mechanical design flaws that are usually multidisciplinary. Meaning from mechanical design, assembly, and manufacturing. I did go into business and consulting, but that was long ago, retired now.
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Old 07-18-2017, 11:29 AM   #50
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The weight sharing of the front and rear trailer axles changes based on trailer levelness (tongue high/low/just-right), and not on where the load is.

If the trailer retains its out-of-levelness, the weight on the axles won't change. (Of course road distribution can affect levelness, but that is mostly driven by hitch/truck height.)
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Old 07-18-2017, 11:36 AM   #51
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My thought with this last is that I probably won't be at the 1500# that one would like, I don't know that I'm loaded to a point that I should go to LRD. Thoughts on my logic?
going up to LRD tires is good... adds a safety margin and gives better control of loaded trailer on the road...

Goodyear Endurance LRD tires on sale

https://www.goodyear.com/en-US/tires/category/trailer
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Old 07-18-2017, 02:49 PM   #52
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My thought with this last is that I probably won't be at the 1500# that one would like, I don't know that I'm loaded to a point that I should go to LRD. Thoughts on my logic?

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going up to LRD tires is good... adds a safety margin and gives better control of loaded trailer on the road...

Goodyear Endurance LRD tires on sale

https://www.goodyear.com/en-US/tires/category/trailer
Going to higher LR is only going to give you any benefit if you also run the higher inflation. It is the air pressure that supports the load not the tire.

In general tire load capacity is in the form of "Air Volume" x Air Pressure = Load capacity. So either larger tire or higher PSI will give you more load capacity.
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Old 07-18-2017, 03:13 PM   #53
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Going to higher LR is only going to give you any benefit if you also run the higher inflation. It is the air pressure that supports the load not the tire.
Thx for the clarification Tireman9
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Old 07-18-2017, 03:30 PM   #54
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The weight sharing of the front and rear trailer axles changes based on trailer levelness (tongue high/low/just-right), and not on where the load is.

If the trailer retains its out-of-levelness, the weight on the axles won't change. (Of course road distribution can affect levelness, but that is mostly driven by hitch/truck height.)
This. Is the trailer level? If so, there might be something going on with your suspension (like maybe the axles aren't hung correctly).
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Old 07-18-2017, 09:24 PM   #55
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Thanks everyone.

Yes, the trailer is level, at least as close as the bubble between the lines.

The trailer has Dexter Torflex axles. I spent the day talking to tech services and checking the axles. Hoping to determine if I had a problem with one of the axles (rear one in particular). As best I can tell the axles are okay but have another call in to Dexter.

As I see it I have two options:
1. go with LRC knowing that I may not have the safety margin that one would like. However I could stay under the max load rating.
2. go with the LRD at 65 psi knowing that I'm way under max load and would have to live with the excess center tire tread wear.

Which is the lesser of two evils? Tireman, you out there?

Kirk
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Old 07-21-2017, 09:17 AM   #56
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First off a HUGE thank you to everyone who replied to my thread. Especially tireman9!!!! After much consternation and 11 trips to the scale I have decided to go with Carlisle LRD tires. Also having a new WDH installed and and going to ask for a TPMS for my birthday.
Kirk
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Old 08-04-2017, 06:43 PM   #57
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Glad no one was hurt. I would be happy to speak with you about a TST TPMS. Feel free to contact me at any time.
Thanks,
Mike Benson
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210-420-0132
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