Losing tires almost every trip

[SailorSam20500]

Originally Posted by ch1ch2

How does the number of reader's replies relate?
It was two days between the OP's replies.
I get busy sometimes and it may be a week or two between times I get on a computer. (Think goodness)

There are a number of folks on here who would benefit by following your example...


Hey wait, I may be in that group!!!

[awright42]

Lots of great comments. I'll fill in some of the gaps.
Tires are various, Goodyear Marathon, Mastertrack UN203, Freestar M106+, others I can't remember. Usually purchased on the road at the mercy of the local shop or Wal-Mart. 10 PLY radials Load series E. If I have to get a "D", I replace it as soon as possible. Blow one replace it and the other tandem.

Rig is a 2013 PUMA 25-TFQ toy hauler. Lists 7097 lb dry. CAT scales 7540 normally between trips
CAT scales around 8600 heavy loaded. This is an unusual condition.
Tandem axles rated 5200 lb each. Tires rated 2470 dual / 2830 single.
Rig GVWR is 10,957 lb

Never had a tire long enough to show any wear. Tread appears even. No edge wear or feathering. The Rig did have a recall due to close clearance between wheels and the top of the wheel well. We hoped the failures were due to the wheel hitting the well but they continued afterward. The dealer got a kit and installed a spacer to lower the axles about 1-1/2" inches. The hitch drop was adjusted to compensate.

Frame is a Lippert

Rear axle is square with the rear frame. There is a 5/16 in. difference between rear and front axles at the U-bolts. So the axles have a bit of runout. I couldn't get a good measurement from the hitch.

Trips are usually 1000 miles round. Occasionally 2000 mi. WV to Disney.

Trim has been lost on both sides of the rig. One double blowout sucked the holding tank wiring out of the wall to the kitchen monitor. Failures usually look like the picture. (Last Trip)

[IMG]https://www.dropbox.com/s/xhfg2antifofw7d/Last%20tire.jpg?dl=0[/IMG]

Hope this helps someone. I'm happy to supply information. No I don't post often, don't really have much to say. Been using the rig seasonally since 2013. Tow with a 2017 RAM 2500 6.7 Diesel.

[gfdrb]

Been towing for 45 years and only had 2 flat tires, both caused by debris on highways.
I don’t let tires get too warn or go over 6 years.
I check my tires for air pressure and check tires out every year when I check bearings.
I had over 60000 miles on last trailer.

[ARICE]

Originally Posted by awright42

I've moved up to load series E tires. Added a TPMS system. Always fill to max cold pressure. Drive 70 or lower. And still lose a tire or two almost each trip. The tires go abruptly like a delamination. I now carry 3 spares.
I've noticed when using cross chocks. That the spacing between wheels is different on each side. Am I looking at an axle alignment problem or does the suspension shift over terrain?

1. How often does your TT set in storage between trips?
2. At what weights are you towing?
3. What type trailer and tires? Brands and model are helpful.
4. What is the measurement between tires on either side?
5. What is the date stamp on current tires? Even if "new".

All these questions need to be answered before you can be given a good answer.

[dufferray]

Originally Posted by awright42

Lots of great comments. I'll fill in some of the gaps.
Tires are various, Goodyear Marathon, Mastertrack UN203, Freestar M106+, others I can't remember. Usually purchased on the road at the mercy of the local shop or Wal-Mart. 10 PLY radials Load series E. If I have to get a "D", I replace it as soon as possible. Blow one replace it and the other tandem.

Rig is a 2013 PUMA 25-TFQ toy hauler. Lists 7097 lb dry. CAT scales 7540 normally between trips
CAT scales around 8600 heavy loaded. This is an unusual condition.
Tandem axles rated 5200 lb each. Tires rated 2470 dual / 2830 single.
Rig GVWR is 10,957 lb

Never had a tire long enough to show any wear. Tread appears even. No edge wear or feathering. The Rig did have a recall due to close clearance between wheels and the top of the wheel well. We hoped the failures were due to the wheel hitting the well but they continued afterward. The dealer got a kit and installed a spacer to lower the axles about 1-1/2" inches. The hitch drop was adjusted to compensate.

Frame is a Lippert

Rear axle is square with the rear frame. There is a 5/16 in. difference between rear and front axles at the U-bolts. So the axles have a bit of runout. I couldn't get a good measurement from the hitch.

Trips are usually 1000 miles round. Occasionally 2000 mi. WV to Disney.

Trim has been lost on both sides of the rig. One double blowout sucked the holding tank wiring out of the wall to the kitchen monitor. Failures usually look like the picture. (Last Trip)

[IMG]https://www.drAttachment 198786opbox.com/s/xhfg2antifofw7d/Last%20tire.jpg?dl=0[/IMG]

Hope this helps someone. I'm happy to supply information. No I don't post often, don't really have much to say. Been using the rig seasonally since 2013. Tow with a 2017 RAM 2500 6.7 Diesel.

Awright42 please see my post #27 on this thread. Your last post sounded exactly like our experiences from our previous RV. In our case it turned out that the Lippert frame had the mounting brackets for the suspension incorrectly welded and even with my 4 new leaf spring assemblies and new axles I continued to loss tire "EXACTLY LIKE YOU HAVE DESCRIBED" I lost 16 tires in 18 months until the factory took my unit back and changes my frame. Good Luck and I know what you are living in hell right now. During our nightmare everyone always thought it was us not doing this or that. When in fact we were ALWAYS checking air pressure and looking at our tires. If you have a axle alignment issue, like we did, then the ONLY answer is those axles must be aligned to the hitch point.

[Sfgoble]

Had similar issues with a horse trailer but never a camper . After several tires and several times trying to realign the axle ended up changing the axle it was slightly bent not enough to see but enough that it would cause tire to blow at about 100 miles . Axles aint cheap but if I'd have put it on sooner id have saved the price of several tires and cost of the unsuccessful realignments . Its easy to bend and axle turning tight on hard surfaces or as mentioned, hitting curbs potholes ect. Thats my experience, but i say whatever it is get it fixed having blowouts is not only inconvenient its dangerous. Good luck.

[Rick1]

I was always losing tires on my 38' fifth wheel. Turns out I had a bent frame that had to be straitened and reinforced. Repair shop said that most of the frames on big fifth wheels are not strong enough to carry all the weight of that size trailer.

[Mr Handy]

Originally Posted by awright42

I've moved up to load series E tires. Added a TPMS system. Always fill to max cold pressure. Drive 70 or lower. And still lose a tire or two almost each trip. The tires go abruptly like a delamination. I now carry 3 spares.
I've noticed when using cross chocks. That the spacing between wheels is different on each side. Am I looking at an axle alignment problem or does the suspension shift over terrain?

Get rid of the TPMS. These 5th wheel are getting to heavy for any tire manufacturer.Look into Foam Filling All Tires. We do it on our Construction trailers. Do not buy Chinese .

[Springerdad]

Originally Posted by Mr Handy

Get rid of the TPMS. These 5th wheel are getting to heavy for any tire manufacturer.Look into Foam Filling All Tires. We do it on our Construction trailers. Do not buy Chinese .

I'm not so sure that's good advice for any of us. A proper tire for the load it's meant to carry is all that's needed, along with proper inflation according to load tables, along with pressure monitoring. I shudder to think of the imbalance a foam filled tire would create. Again, proper application of the equipment for the task at hand.

[Mr Handy]

You may be right, I may be Crazy, Though I am not the one changing blown out tires every weekend. Another problem besides these being like towing your house behind you, or they are bigger than some. People OVER LOAD THEM. Weigh what you put in. I see people pull out Bikes, They have a Harley on the Bumber, Rubber Boats, Picnic Tables, All kinds of items.Over 2000 pound. Again They do not make a decent tire for these 5th wheels. Yes Axels can be out.They slap these things together.They are nice.Though Give me a Key and a Newmar - American Eagle Class A anyday over these tire shredders.My frien/s Plural are going Class A after I changed 15 years ago.They are getting older and smarter. Thank you for Correcting me. NO FOAM.. Bad Foam....

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by Springerdad

I'm not so sure that's good advice for any of us. A proper tire for the load it's meant to carry is all that's needed, along with proper inflation according to load tables, along with pressure monitoring. I shudder to think of the imbalance a foam filled tire would create. Again, proper application of the equipment for the task at hand.

Lots of difference between construction, farm, and "waste management(garbage) trucks and highway use tires.

The main supplier of tire fill material only uses speeds of 35 mph max when describing it's capabilities.

Fed standards dont prohibit its use in highway tires but warn strongly that the polymers used can liquefy when hot. If that happens there's a good chance imbalance will be bad enough to cause serious damage. Perhaps enough to make a flat far more preferable.

Tire companies have for years trying to develop the alternative to pneumatic tires. So far nothing other than "run flat" tires for cars at highway speeds. They still use air pressure, are just designed to not come apart for 50 miles or so when punctured.

[Springerdad]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Lots of difference between construction, farm, and "waste management(garbage) trucks and highway use tires.

The main supplier of tire fill material only uses speeds of 35 mph max when describing it's capabilities.

Fed standards dont prohibit its use in highway tires but warn strongly that the polymers used can liquefy when hot. If that happens there's a good chance imbalance will be bad enough to cause serious damage. Perhaps enough to make a flat far more preferable.

Tire companies have for years trying to develop the alternative to pneumatic tires. So far nothing other than "run flat" tires for cars at highway speeds. They still use air pressure, are just designed to not come apart for 50 miles or so when punctured.

Thanks for your input Mike. I was hoping not to get too technical with my response but your help in that realm is appreciated.

[cavie]

You already know you have a 5/16 difference between axels. Now let's see how they are aliened with the hitch. . Get under the trailer and measure from the ball to front axle u-bolt on each side. Measure to the outside u-bolt. A piece of builders string is all you need. 50 years of construction work. Trust me. Tie it to the bolt on the ball and leave it there. Drag the string back to the axel with a black marker in hand. Pull the string tight and mark where the u-bolt is and mark the string. Then roll over to the other side and do the same.

If the bolts are at the same mark, your Axel aliment is fine. Next test is for camber and caster which is harder to do. Camber is easy. Flat surface and a 18" or 24" level held vertical against the tires will tell you about the chamber.

String and a helper will work for tow in and out. Since you have different tires all around you will need a helper and two straight edges. Measure from straight edge to straight edge placed horizonal across each tire on the outside. Both sides of both tires. Next with the helper pull a string horizontal across the tires on the outside. You should have four contact points. Place a small block of wood of the same thickness on the outside contact points of the two tires. You should have the same thickness measurement at the 2 points with no blocks as the wood blocks. These are Carpenter and brick layer tricks before the days of lasers. This is not precision by any means but it will tell you if you need an axel alinement.

somewhere in those measurement you are sure to find some difference.

[awright42]

I like the string suggestion. Much easier than a tape.
One item probably dismissed as common sense, is that the trailer must be level and tires equally loaded before checking the axle alignment.

"Correcting axle misalignment may be as simple as balancing the load on each axle. When an axle has more weight on one side than the other, the leaf spring on the heavier side will compress and elongate more than the leaf spring on the lighter side, creating an out-of-alignment condition. Correcting the balance will correct the alignment.

Trailer Life
Suspension Basics
by Ed Bolduc - February 5, 2017"

Living in West Virginia level is a "Luxury". My 5/16" out of alignment turned into 5/8" difference when I turned the rig around.

I'll have to go to Wal-Mart to get an accurate measurement.

Thanks again for all the help. I'll take a break and do the bearing kits and grease. Stay tuned.